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Poll
Question: How will you vote on December 12th 2019
Conservative - 19 (33.9%)
Labour - 12 (21.4%)
SNP - 2 (3.6%)
Lib Dem - 8 (14.3%)
Brexit - 1 (1.8%)
Green - 6 (10.7%)
Other - 2 (3.6%)
Spoil - 0 (0%)
Not voting - 6 (10.7%)
Total Voters: 55

Pages: 1 ... 1099 1100 1101 1102 [1103] 1104 1105 1106 1107 ... 1533 Go Down Print
Author Topic: The UK Politics and EU Referendum thread - merged  (Read 2180880 times)
bobAlike
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« Reply #16530 on: March 03, 2019, 12:50:55 PM »

There is no majority for TM’s deal
There is no majority for No Deal
There is no majority for a 2nd ref

So, likely to face an extension of A50. What on earth is that going to solve?

There simply is only one way out of this & that is a second vote, where it’s taken out of the politicians hands. Because simply we are never going to get a majority for anything, so therefore the 60m must vote on it, not the 650 who can’t mske a decision. Simply Deal v Remain.

Otherwise how realistically do we solve this? No deal isn’t realistic when neither MP’s or folk would vote for that cliff edge.

We voted for leave, it should be deal or no deal everything else should be off the ballot. If we cant get a deal we should leave.


You are using the we voted leave, so that means leave & im going to use the argument of lies being told by leave and now we now we know what Brexit looks like argument.

I think both are valid to be fair.

You seem to think that everyone that voted to leave fell for lies.

I voted leave in spite of this.

Don't think you know why I voted.

Yep, I voted against the federal state of Europe or was that a lie also?

It’s hard to work out how dumb you are (and Adz obv). What is the Federal State of Europe? You can’t invent things just to help you get angry.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=0hES7WlDLs8


How can i say this as eloquentlyly as possible. F*ck you. Do you really not believe that the end game for the EU is the federal state? and you say Adz and me are dumb.
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BigAdz
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« Reply #16531 on: March 03, 2019, 04:12:24 PM »

There is no majority for TM’s deal
There is no majority for No Deal
There is no majority for a 2nd ref

So, likely to face an extension of A50. What on earth is that going to solve?

There simply is only one way out of this & that is a second vote, where it’s taken out of the politicians hands. Because simply we are never going to get a majority for anything, so therefore the 60m must vote on it, not the 650 who can’t mske a decision. Simply Deal v Remain.

Otherwise how realistically do we solve this? No deal isn’t realistic when neither MP’s or folk would vote for that cliff edge.

We voted for leave, it should be deal or no deal everything else should be off the ballot. If we cant get a deal we should leave.


You are using the we voted leave, so that means leave & im going to use the argument of lies being told by leave and now we now we know what Brexit looks like argument.

I think both are valid to be fair.

You seem to think that everyone that voted to leave fell for lies.

I voted leave in spite of this.

Don't think you know why I voted.

Yep, I voted against the federal state of Europe or was that a lie also?

It’s hard to work out how dumb you are (and Adz obv). What is the Federal State of Europe? You can’t invent things just to help you get angry.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=0hES7WlDLs8


How can i say this as eloquentlyly as possible. F*ck you. Do you really not believe that the end game for the EU is the federal state? and you say Adz and me are dumb.


I have read and absorbed so much during this time. Great opinions from all sides.

We are all getting on a bit and sometimes it's hard to accept you may be wrong, change your view etc.

All of us have had arguments and we all chat nicely on other non political threads, or at least still have a joke and remain civil.....bar one person who has turned out to be a real disappointment because we haven't all fallen into line with his point of view.

He left and came back only to insult us some more..

I know I deserve the grief I get, but some others are getting some flack they don't deserve because one person is convinced all he says is correct.

Takes all sorts....
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kukushkin88
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« Reply #16532 on: March 03, 2019, 04:39:42 PM »

There is no majority for TM’s deal
There is no majority for No Deal
There is no majority for a 2nd ref

So, likely to face an extension of A50. What on earth is that going to solve?

There simply is only one way out of this & that is a second vote, where it’s taken out of the politicians hands. Because simply we are never going to get a majority for anything, so therefore the 60m must vote on it, not the 650 who can’t mske a decision. Simply Deal v Remain.

Otherwise how realistically do we solve this? No deal isn’t realistic when neither MP’s or folk would vote for that cliff edge.

We voted for leave, it should be deal or no deal everything else should be off the ballot. If we cant get a deal we should leave.


You are using the we voted leave, so that means leave & im going to use the argument of lies being told by leave and now we now we know what Brexit looks like argument.

I think both are valid to be fair.

You seem to think that everyone that voted to leave fell for lies.

I voted leave in spite of this.

Don't think you know why I voted.

Yep, I voted against the federal state of Europe or was that a lie also?

It’s hard to work out how dumb you are (and Adz obv). What is the Federal State of Europe? You can’t invent things just to help you get angry.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=0hES7WlDLs8


How can i say this as eloquentlyly as possible. F*ck you. Do you really not believe that the end game for the EU is the federal state? and you say Adz and me are dumb.


I have read and absorbed so much during this time. Great opinions from all sides.

We are all getting on a bit and sometimes it's hard to accept you may be wrong, change your view etc.

All of us have had arguments and we all chat nicely on other non political threads, or at least still have a joke and remain civil.....bar one person who has turned out to be a real disappointment because we haven't all fallen into line with his point of view.

He left and came back only to insult us some more..

I know I deserve the grief I get, but some others are getting some flack they don't deserve because one person is convinced all he says is correct.

Takes all sorts....

Is this really fair? Nearly everyone who doesn’t hold right wing views has been driven from the thread. I tried for years to improve and enhance everyone’s understanding, including of course my own and to refine the quality of debate. The idea that it is me that is too rigid in my thinking isn’t a reasonable representation. Let’s just take the most recent contentious point....you said it was questionable whether the right or left of the political divide was more racist. It’s literally one of the things that defines the differing sides of the political spectrum.
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Marky147
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« Reply #16533 on: March 03, 2019, 05:38:48 PM »

Is this really fair? Nearly everyone who doesn’t hold right wing views has been driven from the thread. I tried for years to improve and enhance everyone’s understanding, including of course my own and to refine the quality of debate. The idea that it is me that is too rigid in my thinking isn’t a reasonable representation. Let’s just take the most recent contentious point....you said it was questionable whether the right or left of the political divide was more racist. It’s literally one of the things that defines the differing sides of the political spectrum.

The thing you have to remember, is that you're rarely going to change the mind of others. When it transpires that this is the case, you can't start calling them 'insert insult' and think that's going to help persuade them to alter their views.

I'm a remoaner myself, and Adz is a twat. However, that's not because of his political views or stance on brexit Grin
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BigAdz
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« Reply #16534 on: March 03, 2019, 05:41:46 PM »

Utter Bullshit.

No one has driven anyone away.

No one has called anyone out, bar pretty much you. No one has said people should stop posting. No one has said only the right wing views can post.

In fact there are probably only 3 people here sitting right of centre.

Everyone is free to stay and make their point.

Clearly those with leftie type leanings are far more sensitive than those on here that dont....or find it incredibly hard to debate beyond their own viewpoint.


As for suggesting you came here to educate us and enhance our understanding, and refine the quality of debate....well.....


And your point about political divide and racism is again behind the times, with Labour far more in the spotlight than the Tories....



PS. Yes I'm a twat, but I'm pleased not to be a  
« Last Edit: March 03, 2019, 05:44:07 PM by BigAdz » Logged

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« Reply #16535 on: March 03, 2019, 05:45:14 PM »

Is this really fair? Nearly everyone who doesn’t hold right wing views has been driven from the thread. I tried for years to improve and enhance everyone’s understanding, including of course my own and to refine the quality of debate. The idea that it is me that is too rigid in my thinking isn’t a reasonable representation. Let’s just take the most recent contentious point....you said it was questionable whether the right or left of the political divide was more racist. It’s literally one of the things that defines the differing sides of the political spectrum.

The thing you have to remember, is that you're rarely going to change the mind of others. When it transpires that this is the case, you can't start calling them 'insert insult' and think that's going to help persuade them to alter their views.

I'm a remoaner myself, and Adz is a twat. However, that's not because of his political views or stance on brexit Grin

As always, I’m grateful for the contribution, a voice of reason and it’s appreciated.

Up until the Federal State of Europe comment, I don’t think I ever insulted anyone apart from in response to obvious trolling.
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DMorgan
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« Reply #16536 on: March 03, 2019, 07:32:52 PM »

United States of Europe is literally 0% to happen - wet dream of the most ardent europhiles and a handy drum for the eurosceptic press outlets to beat.

Nowhere near enough popular support for it

 Click to see full-size image.


Source: https://www.debatingeurope.eu/2018/05/03/will-ever-united-states-europe/#.XHwmLYj7SUk


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neeko
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« Reply #16537 on: March 03, 2019, 08:43:05 PM »

We should remain in the EU just to veto everything and argue against everything Brussels wants. They would kick us out in 6 months with a great deal, happy we were leaving.
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Pokerpops
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« Reply #16538 on: March 03, 2019, 10:50:11 PM »

There is no majority for TM’s deal
There is no majority for No Deal
There is no majority for a 2nd ref

So, likely to face an extension of A50. What on earth is that going to solve?

There simply is only one way out of this & that is a second vote, where it’s taken out of the politicians hands. Because simply we are never going to get a majority for anything, so therefore the 60m must vote on it, not the 650 who can’t mske a decision. Simply Deal v Remain.

Otherwise how realistically do we solve this? No deal isn’t realistic when neither MP’s or folk would vote for that cliff edge.

We voted for leave, it should be deal or no deal everything else should be off the ballot. If we cant get a deal we should leave.


You are using the we voted leave, so that means leave & im going to use the argument of lies being told by leave and now we now we know what Brexit looks like argument.

I think both are valid to be fair.

You seem to think that everyone that voted to leave fell for lies.

I voted leave in spite of this.

Don't think you know why I voted.

Yep, I voted against the federal state of Europe or was that a lie also?

It’s hard to work out how dumb you are (and Adz obv). What is the Federal State of Europe? You can’t invent things just to help you get angry.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=0hES7WlDLs8


How can i say this as eloquentlyly as possible. F*ck you. Do you really not believe that the end game for the EU is the federal state? and you say Adz and me are dumb.


I have read and absorbed so much during this time. Great opinions from all sides.

We are all getting on a bit and sometimes it's hard to accept you may be wrong, change your view etc.

All of us have had arguments and we all chat nicely on other non political threads, or at least still have a joke and remain civil.....bar one person who has turned out to be a real disappointment because we haven't all fallen into line with his point of view.

He left and came back only to insult us some more..

I know I deserve the grief I get, but some others are getting some flack they don't deserve because one person is convinced all he says is correct.

Takes all sorts....

Is this really fair? Nearly everyone who doesn’t hold right wing views has been driven from the thread. I tried for years to improve and enhance everyone’s understanding, including of course my own and to refine the quality of debate. The idea that it is me that is too rigid in my thinking isn’t a reasonable representation. Let’s just take the most recent contentious point....you said it was questionable whether the right or left of the political divide was more racist. It’s literally one of the things that defines the differing sides of the political spectrum.


I’m not ‘right wing’ and I’m still here.
I think you’re wrong in suggesting that racism defines the divide between the Conservatives and Labour. The primary difference is in economic policy, and always has been (apart from the Blair years obviously).

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Jon MW
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« Reply #16539 on: March 04, 2019, 07:21:09 AM »

There is no majority for TM’s deal
There is no majority for No Deal
There is no majority for a 2nd ref

So, likely to face an extension of A50. What on earth is that going to solve?

There simply is only one way out of this & that is a second vote, where it’s taken out of the politicians hands. Because simply we are never going to get a majority for anything, so therefore the 60m must vote on it, not the 650 who can’t mske a decision. Simply Deal v Remain.

Otherwise how realistically do we solve this? No deal isn’t realistic when neither MP’s or folk would vote for that cliff edge.

We voted for leave, it should be deal or no deal everything else should be off the ballot. If we cant get a deal we should leave.


You are using the we voted leave, so that means leave & im going to use the argument of lies being told by leave and now we now we know what Brexit looks like argument.

I think both are valid to be fair.

You seem to think that everyone that voted to leave fell for lies.

I voted leave in spite of this.

Don't think you know why I voted.

Yep, I voted against the federal state of Europe or was that a lie also?

It’s hard to work out how dumb you are (and Adz obv). What is the Federal State of Europe? You can’t invent things just to help you get angry.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=0hES7WlDLs8


How can i say this as eloquentlyly as possible. F*ck you. Do you really not believe that the end game for the EU is the federal state? and you say Adz and me are dumb.


I have read and absorbed so much during this time. Great opinions from all sides.

We are all getting on a bit and sometimes it's hard to accept you may be wrong, change your view etc.

All of us have had arguments and we all chat nicely on other non political threads, or at least still have a joke and remain civil.....bar one person who has turned out to be a real disappointment because we haven't all fallen into line with his point of view.

He left and came back only to insult us some more..

I know I deserve the grief I get, but some others are getting some flack they don't deserve because one person is convinced all he says is correct.

Takes all sorts....

Is this really fair? Nearly everyone who doesn’t hold right wing views has been driven from the thread. I tried for years to improve and enhance everyone’s understanding, including of course my own and to refine the quality of debate. The idea that it is me that is too rigid in my thinking isn’t a reasonable representation. Let’s just take the most recent contentious point....you said it was questionable whether the right or left of the political divide was more racist. It’s literally one of the things that defines the differing sides of the political spectrum.


I’m not ‘right wing’ and I’m still here.
I think you’re wrong in suggesting that racism defines the divide between the Conservatives and Labour. The primary difference is in economic policy, and always has been (apart from the Blair years obviously).



Even more generally the core, fundamental difference of principles between Conservatives and Labour is the size and role of government - but that is most often expressed in economic policy.

They might be right of centre and left of centre parties but conflating their opinions with far right and far left ideas is pretty disingenuous.

Phrasing like, "I tried for years to improve and enhance everyone’s understanding, ... and to refine the quality of debate", probably doesn't come across too well either.

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BigAdz
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« Reply #16540 on: March 04, 2019, 08:06:19 AM »

There is no majority for TM’s deal
There is no majority for No Deal
There is no majority for a 2nd ref

So, likely to face an extension of A50. What on earth is that going to solve?

There simply is only one way out of this & that is a second vote, where it’s taken out of the politicians hands. Because simply we are never going to get a majority for anything, so therefore the 60m must vote on it, not the 650 who can’t mske a decision. Simply Deal v Remain.

Otherwise how realistically do we solve this? No deal isn’t realistic when neither MP’s or folk would vote for that cliff edge.

We voted for leave, it should be deal or no deal everything else should be off the ballot. If we cant get a deal we should leave.


You are using the we voted leave, so that means leave & im going to use the argument of lies being told by leave and now we now we know what Brexit looks like argument.

I think both are valid to be fair.

You seem to think that everyone that voted to leave fell for lies.

I voted leave in spite of this.

Don't think you know why I voted.

Yep, I voted against the federal state of Europe or was that a lie also?

It’s hard to work out how dumb you are (and Adz obv). What is the Federal State of Europe? You can’t invent things just to help you get angry.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=0hES7WlDLs8


How can i say this as eloquentlyly as possible. F*ck you. Do you really not believe that the end game for the EU is the federal state? and you say Adz and me are dumb.


I have read and absorbed so much during this time. Great opinions from all sides.

We are all getting on a bit and sometimes it's hard to accept you may be wrong, change your view etc.

All of us have had arguments and we all chat nicely on other non political threads, or at least still have a joke and remain civil.....bar one person who has turned out to be a real disappointment because we haven't all fallen into line with his point of view.

He left and came back only to insult us some more..

I know I deserve the grief I get, but some others are getting some flack they don't deserve because one person is convinced all he says is correct.

Takes all sorts....

Is this really fair? Nearly everyone who doesn’t hold right wing views has been driven from the thread. I tried for years to improve and enhance everyone’s understanding, including of course my own and to refine the quality of debate. The idea that it is me that is too rigid in my thinking isn’t a reasonable representation. Let’s just take the most recent contentious point....you said it was questionable whether the right or left of the political divide was more racist. It’s literally one of the things that defines the differing sides of the political spectrum.


I’m not ‘right wing’ and I’m still here.
I think you’re wrong in suggesting that racism defines the divide between the Conservatives and Labour. The primary difference is in economic policy, and always has been (apart from the Blair years obviously).



Even more generally the core, fundamental difference of principles between Conservatives and Labour is the size and role of government - but that is most often expressed in economic policy.

They might be right of centre and left of centre parties but conflating their opinions with far right and far left ideas is pretty disingenuous.

Phrasing like, "I tried for years to improve and enhance everyone’s understanding, ... and to refine the quality of debate", probably doesn't come across too well either.



To quote our mentor, saviour and hero....

As always, I’m grateful for the contribution, a voice of reason and it’s appreciated.
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kukushkin88
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« Reply #16541 on: March 04, 2019, 08:40:35 AM »

There is no majority for TM’s deal
There is no majority for No Deal
There is no majority for a 2nd ref

So, likely to face an extension of A50. What on earth is that going to solve?

There simply is only one way out of this & that is a second vote, where it’s taken out of the politicians hands. Because simply we are never going to get a majority for anything, so therefore the 60m must vote on it, not the 650 who can’t mske a decision. Simply Deal v Remain.

Otherwise how realistically do we solve this? No deal isn’t realistic when neither MP’s or folk would vote for that cliff edge.

We voted for leave, it should be deal or no deal everything else should be off the ballot. If we cant get a deal we should leave.


You are using the we voted leave, so that means leave & im going to use the argument of lies being told by leave and now we now we know what Brexit looks like argument.

I think both are valid to be fair.

You seem to think that everyone that voted to leave fell for lies.

I voted leave in spite of this.

Don't think you know why I voted.

Yep, I voted against the federal state of Europe or was that a lie also?

It’s hard to work out how dumb you are (and Adz obv). What is the Federal State of Europe? You can’t invent things just to help you get angry.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=0hES7WlDLs8


How can i say this as eloquentlyly as possible. F*ck you. Do you really not believe that the end game for the EU is the federal state? and you say Adz and me are dumb.


I have read and absorbed so much during this time. Great opinions from all sides.

We are all getting on a bit and sometimes it's hard to accept you may be wrong, change your view etc.

All of us have had arguments and we all chat nicely on other non political threads, or at least still have a joke and remain civil.....bar one person who has turned out to be a real disappointment because we haven't all fallen into line with his point of view.

He left and came back only to insult us some more..

I know I deserve the grief I get, but some others are getting some flack they don't deserve because one person is convinced all he says is correct.

Takes all sorts....

Is this really fair? Nearly everyone who doesn’t hold right wing views has been driven from the thread. I tried for years to improve and enhance everyone’s understanding, including of course my own and to refine the quality of debate. The idea that it is me that is too rigid in my thinking isn’t a reasonable representation. Let’s just take the most recent contentious point....you said it was questionable whether the right or left of the political divide was more racist. It’s literally one of the things that defines the differing sides of the political spectrum.


I’m not ‘right wing’ and I’m still here.
I think you’re wrong in suggesting that racism defines the divide between the Conservatives and Labour. The primary difference is in economic policy, and always has been (apart from the Blair years obviously).



Even more generally the core, fundamental difference of principles between Conservatives and Labour is the size and role of government - but that is most often expressed in economic policy.

They might be right of centre and left of centre parties but conflating their opinions with far right and far left ideas is pretty disingenuous.

Phrasing like, "I tried for years to improve and enhance everyone’s understanding, ... and to refine the quality of debate", probably doesn't come across too well either.



The Conservative Party is and always has been more racist than the Labour Party is just a simple truism. Saying other true things doesn’t make that thing less true. It was one post that I made in response to the Mantis post, as Doobs pointed out he was probably just trolling and so it was foolish of me to rise to the bait.

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/politics/2016/may/07/top-conservatives-condemn-zac-goldsmiths-disgusting-mayoral-campaign

As for linking political parties to extreme wings. We’re OK calling JC a Communist?
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Jon MW
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« Reply #16542 on: March 04, 2019, 09:18:32 AM »

...

The Conservative Party is and always has been more racist than the Labour Party is just a simple truism. Saying other true things doesn’t make that thing less true. ..


Just because you think something is true - doesn't make it a truism.



...


As for linking political parties to extreme wings. We’re OK calling JC a Communist?


As far as I was aware JC is an individual, not the party.

Although if you want to suggest that The Leader is the Party and The Party is the Leader - well done, what a brilliantly satirical take on Labour being Communist you have.
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DungBeetle
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« Reply #16543 on: March 04, 2019, 09:27:23 AM »

There is no majority for TM’s deal
There is no majority for No Deal
There is no majority for a 2nd ref

So, likely to face an extension of A50. What on earth is that going to solve?

There simply is only one way out of this & that is a second vote, where it’s taken out of the politicians hands. Because simply we are never going to get a majority for anything, so therefore the 60m must vote on it, not the 650 who can’t mske a decision. Simply Deal v Remain.

Otherwise how realistically do we solve this? No deal isn’t realistic when neither MP’s or folk would vote for that cliff edge.

We voted for leave, it should be deal or no deal everything else should be off the ballot. If we cant get a deal we should leave.


You are using the we voted leave, so that means leave & im going to use the argument of lies being told by leave and now we now we know what Brexit looks like argument.

I think both are valid to be fair.

You seem to think that everyone that voted to leave fell for lies.

I voted leave in spite of this.

Don't think you know why I voted.

Yep, I voted against the federal state of Europe or was that a lie also?

It’s hard to work out how dumb you are (and Adz obv). What is the Federal State of Europe? You can’t invent things just to help you get angry.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=0hES7WlDLs8


How can i say this as eloquentlyly as possible. F*ck you. Do you really not believe that the end game for the EU is the federal state? and you say Adz and me are dumb.


I have read and absorbed so much during this time. Great opinions from all sides.

We are all getting on a bit and sometimes it's hard to accept you may be wrong, change your view etc.

All of us have had arguments and we all chat nicely on other non political threads, or at least still have a joke and remain civil.....bar one person who has turned out to be a real disappointment because we haven't all fallen into line with his point of view.

He left and came back only to insult us some more..

I know I deserve the grief I get, but some others are getting some flack they don't deserve because one person is convinced all he says is correct.

Takes all sorts....

Is this really fair? Nearly everyone who doesn’t hold right wing views has been driven from the thread. I tried for years to improve and enhance everyone’s understanding, including of course my own and to refine the quality of debate. The idea that it is me that is too rigid in my thinking isn’t a reasonable representation. Let’s just take the most recent contentious point....you said it was questionable whether the right or left of the political divide was more racist. It’s literally one of the things that defines the differing sides of the political spectrum.


I’m not ‘right wing’ and I’m still here.
I think you’re wrong in suggesting that racism defines the divide between the Conservatives and Labour. The primary difference is in economic policy, and always has been (apart from the Blair years obviously).



Even more generally the core, fundamental difference of principles between Conservatives and Labour is the size and role of government - but that is most often expressed in economic policy.

They might be right of centre and left of centre parties but conflating their opinions with far right and far left ideas is pretty disingenuous.

Phrasing like, "I tried for years to improve and enhance everyone’s understanding, ... and to refine the quality of debate", probably doesn't come across too well either.



The Conservative Party is and always has been more racist than the Labour Party is just a simple truism. Saying other true things doesn’t make that thing less true. It was one post that I made in response to the Mantis post, as Doobs pointed out he was probably just trolling and so it was foolish of me to rise to the bait.

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/politics/2016/may/07/top-conservatives-condemn-zac-goldsmiths-disgusting-mayoral-campaign

As for linking political parties to extreme wings. We’re OK calling JC a Communist?


I’d say I would agree that historically a given Tory member is more likely to have racist views that a typical Labour member (I’m ignoring the current Momentum horror show here).

However it’s far too simplistic.   There are overlays of left v right wing economics and social views which creates a complex tapestry.  The BNP were a left wing party from an economic viewpoint but extreme racists to boot.  Are they a far right party who advocate mass nationalisation?  Or are they a racist left wing party?  I imagine you will go for the former but you can argue it either way.
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MANTIS01
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What kind of fuckery is this?


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« Reply #16544 on: March 04, 2019, 09:40:59 AM »

One of the reasons Labour has lost ground is they brand anybody with immigration concerns a bigot. We saw that with Gordon Brown. Can’t really blame folk smiling when they discover the Labour Party contain their fair share of genuine bigots.
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