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Poll
Question: How will you vote on December 12th 2019
Conservative - 19 (33.9%)
Labour - 12 (21.4%)
SNP - 2 (3.6%)
Lib Dem - 8 (14.3%)
Brexit - 1 (1.8%)
Green - 6 (10.7%)
Other - 2 (3.6%)
Spoil - 0 (0%)
Not voting - 6 (10.7%)
Total Voters: 55

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Author Topic: The UK Politics and EU Referendum thread - merged  (Read 2180114 times)
kukushkin88
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« Reply #19935 on: August 22, 2019, 12:13:20 PM »

rofl it wasn't a negotiation, it was a trap for johnson who has to now come up with something that isn't laughable.

He also acknowledged that it’s on us to sort out the border problem, a clear departure from recent message/posturing and surely another mistake that he’s made in the heat of the moment. Certainly a strategic mistake in the blame game.
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« Reply #19936 on: August 22, 2019, 12:27:44 PM »

https://twitter.com/johnmcdonnellMP/status/1164491243302400007?s=19

Free, gender responsive, a dash of climate.. What's not to like. How am I going to vote Labour.. for real
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« Reply #19937 on: August 22, 2019, 12:32:38 PM »

Macron meets Johnson in Paris: Macron calls the backstop "not just legal quibbling" but "genuine, indispensable guarantees". Not a great start.

Macron: "I’ve always been presented as the hard boy in the group. But that’s just because I’ve always been clear".

Then goes on to prove it: "We will not find a new solution in the 30 days that will be very different from the existing one”.

--

Probably fair. If a viable technical solution was available, it would have been proposed and accepted by now. Not sure that believing in brexit changes that.
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« Reply #19938 on: August 22, 2019, 12:33:22 PM »

In response, Johnson chides Macron by contrasting his pessimism to Merkel's "can do spirit". Adds: "Where there’s a will there’s a way”.

lol.
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« Reply #19939 on: August 22, 2019, 12:46:20 PM »

Macron meets Johnson in Paris: Macron calls the backstop "not just legal quibbling" but "genuine, indispensable guarantees". Not a great start.

Macron: "I’ve always been presented as the hard boy in the group. But that’s just because I’ve always been clear".

Then goes on to prove it: "We will not find a new solution in the 30 days that will be very different from the existing one”.

--

Probably fair. If a viable technical solution was available, it would have been proposed and accepted by now. Not sure that believing in brexit changes that.

“Rofl it wasn’t a negotiation”
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« Reply #19940 on: August 22, 2019, 01:43:43 PM »

Macron meets Johnson in Paris: Macron calls the backstop "not just legal quibbling" but "genuine, indispensable guarantees". Not a great start.

Macron: "I’ve always been presented as the hard boy in the group. But that’s just because I’ve always been clear".

Then goes on to prove it: "We will not find a new solution in the 30 days that will be very different from the existing one”.

--

Probably fair. If a viable technical solution was available, it would have been proposed and accepted by now. Not sure that believing in brexit changes that.

“Rofl it wasn’t a negotiation”

In response, Johnson chides Macron by contrasting his pessimism to Merkel's "can do spirit". Adds: "Where there’s a will there’s a way”.

lol.

and johnson the mug gets played again by insisting he will come up with a solution.

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BigAdz
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« Reply #19941 on: August 22, 2019, 01:48:23 PM »

Macron meets Johnson in Paris: Macron calls the backstop "not just legal quibbling" but "genuine, indispensable guarantees". Not a great start.

Macron: "I’ve always been presented as the hard boy in the group. But that’s just because I’ve always been clear".

Then goes on to prove it: "We will not find a new solution in the 30 days that will be very different from the existing one”.

--

Probably fair. If a viable technical solution was available, it would have been proposed and accepted by now. Not sure that believing in brexit changes that.

“Rofl it wasn’t a negotiation”

In response, Johnson chides Macron by contrasting his pessimism to Merkel's "can do spirit". Adds: "Where there’s a will there’s a way”.

lol.

and johnson the mug gets played again by insisting he will come up with a solution.



Not quite sure how else he should try and act?

Maybe you could make a contribution of a thought process, as to how we go about this, rather than just slag things off?
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« Reply #19942 on: August 22, 2019, 01:56:03 PM »

So who blinks first.. The EU, Bojo and Co,  or the rest of parliament.
2 out of 3 serious runners but can't pick.
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« Reply #19943 on: August 22, 2019, 02:07:02 PM »

So who blinks first.. The EU, Bojo and Co,  or the rest of parliament.
2 out of 3 serious runners but can't pick.

no one blinks and its no deal by default?

otherwise

EU shouldn't blink, or not easy to blink without shafting Ireland
Parliament will try to block but its a shambles of competing interests and party biases.
Boris and co might blink. try to get a few concessions, stick some lipstick and a blonde wig on the WA and present it as a new deal?
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« Reply #19944 on: August 22, 2019, 02:21:09 PM »

Tighty

If we get to the 24th October is it possible for someone to enter a motion for a vote on an extension?

Parliament votes to extend by a clear majority.

Does Boris have to request one or can he just ignore this?

Thanks
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« Reply #19945 on: August 22, 2019, 02:37:27 PM »

Tighty

If we get to the 24th October is it possible for someone to enter a motion for a vote on an extension?

Parliament votes to extend by a clear majority.

Does Boris have to request one or can he just ignore this?

Thanks

An initial view. Not necessarily 100% correct, i would need to look into it to be totally sure of the following

Any MP can propose a motion. Typically the government can, the opposition can (they have time allocated for opposition debates) and backbenchers can, plus there are Emergency debates.

Once submitted from a backbencher Bercow has to select the motion for debate. Lets assume he does (There has been an increase in both Emergency Debates and Urgent Questions in recent years (Cooper, Benn, Malthouse, Brady etc), reflecting the emphasis that the current Speaker has placed on them as a way of giving backbench MPs a stronger voice in Parliament, and the political circumstances of Brexit.)

A backbencher or emergency motion passing does not bind the Government legally, (though if a motion is substantive it can be classed as a "meaningful vote" which have historically been considered binding ) but they can impose significant political pressure. In normal circumstances. These I suppose wouldn't be normal circumstances and there may be political pressure that Johnson feels he can withstand because of Oct 31 and people's wishes etc

Same applies to no confidence votes. Historically considered binding. However the recent debate is pertinent. A VONC in late Oct, Boris loses, nothing to mean he has to call an election before Oct 31st so we could leave when technically the House has no confidence in the government then he calls an election when we are out, having no dealt. As of now it looks like he would get back in as Brexit party votes go back Tory, though whether with an overall majority is a moot point.

Hence the chatter last week about the urgency for VONC in early Sept as practically its quite tough for a government that can't pass anything to hang on for up to two months without going to the country. Indeed I think no government having lost a VONC has held on for anything like 2 months ever.

It still doesn't look like the GNU is a runner either.

   
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kukushkin88
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« Reply #19946 on: August 22, 2019, 02:42:06 PM »

Tighty

If we get to the 24th October is it possible for someone to enter a motion for a vote on an extension?

Parliament votes to extend by a clear majority.

Does Boris have to request one or can he just ignore this?

Thanks

An initial view. Not necessarily 100% correct, i would need to look into it to be totally sure of the following

Any MP can propose a motion. Typically the government can, the opposition can (they have time allocated for opposition debates) and backbenchers can, plus there are Emergency debates.

Once submitted from a backbencher Bercow has to select the motion for debate. Lets assume he does (There has been an increase in both Emergency Debates and Urgent Questions in recent years (Cooper, Benn, Malthouse, Brady etc), reflecting the emphasis that the current Speaker has placed on them as a way of giving backbench MPs a stronger voice in Parliament, and the political circumstances of Brexit.)

A backbencher or emergency motion passing does not bind the Government legally, (though if a motion is substantive it can be classed as a "meaningful vote" which have historically been considered binding ) but they can impose significant political pressure. In normal circumstances. These I suppose wouldn't be normal circumstances and there may be political pressure that Johnson feels he can withstand because of Oct 31 and people's wishes etc

Same applies to no confidence votes. Historically considered binding. However the recent debate is pertinent. A VONC in late Oct, Boris loses, nothing to mean he has to call an election before Oct 31st so we could leave when technically the House has no confidence in the government then he calls an election when we are out, having no dealt. As of now it looks like he would get back in as Brexit party votes go back Tory, though whether with an overall majority is a moot point.

Hence the chatter last week about the urgency for VONC in early Sept as practically its quite tough for a government that can't pass anything to hang on for up to two months without going to the country. Indeed I think no government having lost a VONC has held on for anything like 2 months ever.

It still doesn't look like the GNU is a runner either.


Also this option:

https://commonslibrary.parliament.uk/parliament-and-elections/parliament/taking-control-of-the-order-paper/
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« Reply #19947 on: August 22, 2019, 02:46:17 PM »

Macron meets Johnson in Paris: Macron calls the backstop "not just legal quibbling" but "genuine, indispensable guarantees". Not a great start.

Macron: "I’ve always been presented as the hard boy in the group. But that’s just because I’ve always been clear".

Then goes on to prove it: "We will not find a new solution in the 30 days that will be very different from the existing one”.

--

Probably fair. If a viable technical solution was available, it would have been proposed and accepted by now. Not sure that believing in brexit changes that.

“Rofl it wasn’t a negotiation”

In response, Johnson chides Macron by contrasting his pessimism to Merkel's "can do spirit". Adds: "Where there’s a will there’s a way”.

lol.

and johnson the mug gets played again by insisting he will come up with a solution.



Not quite sure how else he should try and act?

Maybe you could make a contribution of a thought process, as to how we go about this, rather than just slag things off?

the thought process?  johnson has no thought process other than defending the tory party from massive losses at the next election. 

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MANTIS01
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« Reply #19948 on: August 22, 2019, 04:00:07 PM »

Is it just me or has anybody else noticed Remain are a rather cynical bunch..
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« Reply #19949 on: August 22, 2019, 04:48:08 PM »


I guess this one was kind of obvious but still amazing that they don’t even seem to care how quickly the b/s can be laid bare. Also kind of indicates that they know they can’t let no deal happen, this promise would insta crash with quite a high profile.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-49433027
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