The UK Politics and EU Referendum thread - merged

[nirvana]

Peston

It’s done. Labour has instructed its MPs tonight to block @BorisJohnson’s attempt on Monday to have 12 Dec election. So @BorisJohnson will shelve the Withdrawal Agreement Bill. He will cancel the budget. There will be no government worth the name. Parliament will become...a zombie Parliament, unless and until the opposition find a way to wrest control from @BorisJohnson or hold an election. This deadlock is without modern precedent.

If we ever get back to a functioning Government, do you think the FTPA might be the first thing to go ?

[TightEnd]

It's a mess, on all sides

Lucky the right to strike is enshrined in Article 28 of the Charter of Fundamental Rights of the European Union.

The film of JRMs son playing rugby league while his dad and Gove shiver round a fire burning papers from Hansard is sure to follow

[mulhuzz]

Peston

It’s done. Labour has instructed its MPs tonight to block @BorisJohnson’s attempt on Monday to have 12 Dec election. So @BorisJohnson will shelve the Withdrawal Agreement Bill. He will cancel the budget. There will be no government worth the name. Parliament will become...a zombie Parliament, unless and until the opposition find a way to wrest control from @BorisJohnson or hold an election. This deadlock is without modern precedent.

If we ever get back to a functioning Government, do you think the FTPA might be the first thing to go ?

Nah, it’s fundamentally a good piece of legislation and when govt functions you don’t need it.

It removes from the executive a power which is better given to the legislative, and basically all such prerogatives should be more limited.

Brexit has done a mischief to Britain’s body politic by having a referendum which wasn’t legally binding but is politically but without the requisite level of detail. In effect Britain’s constitution always required either legislative limits (which eg don’t exist in eg case of prorogation or calling GE pre FTPA) or political limits that politicians wouldn’t test the limits. With the new world created by Brexit and the lack of direct accountability to Parliament, bad actors were able to start to test those limits.

As a result; legal limits are much easier to have a court enforce than ‘political conventions’ and thus I think we’ll see more abrogation of perogatives than returning to them.

[nirvana]

It's a mess, on all sides

Lucky the right to strike is enshrined in Article 28 of the Charter of Fundamental Rights of the European Union.

The film of JRMs son playing rugby league while his dad and Gove shiver round a fire burning papers from Hansard is sure to follow

Haha, some image

[mulhuzz]

All of this is just Lakhoffian framing.

Johnson’s big pledge was ‘do or die, out by 31st’ (presumably he’d choose to die in a ditch)..and he has failed miserably.

By almost any standard you’d care to think of, he’s the worst PM ever.

This bickering over the timing of the election just serves to re-frame and distract.

All he had to do was act like an adult when he won on second reading but lost on the programme motion and resolved that WAB will take a few more weeks to pass and get on with it. But because Parliament, given time for the proper scrutiny might exercise a bit of sovereignty and make amendments which may not be totally helpful to Johnson winning a majority at the next election (even though a WAB would, in some form, have been passed) he’s decided to withdrawal the bill and threatens to go on strike.

Well fine, go on strike then you child. The absence of a PM is likely to be more effective than your Premiership, you abject failure.

[Woodsey]

All of this is just Lakhoffian framing.

Johnson’s big pledge was ‘do or die, out by 31st’ (presumably he’d choose to die in a ditch)..and he has failed miserably.

By almost any standard you’d care to think of, he’s the worst PM ever.

This bickering over the timing of the election just serves to re-frame and distract.

All he had to do was act like an adult when he won on second reading but lost on the programme motion and resolved that WAB will take a few more weeks to pass and get on with it. But because Parliament, given time for the proper scrutiny might exercise a bit of sovereignty and make amendments which may not be totally helpful to Johnson winning a majority at the next election (even though a WAB would, in some form, have been passed) he’s decided to withdrawal the bill and threatens to go on strike.

Well fine, go on strike then you child. The absence of a PM is likely to be more effective than your Premiership, you abject failure.

Failure? He’s made it to prime minister.....hardly a failure. What have you achieved in life other than being good at whining on the Internet?

[mulhuzz]

Failure? He’s made it to prime minister.....hardly a failure. What have you achieved in life other than being good at whining on the Internet?

I don’t quite know what your problem is with me, but that’s the second totally unreasonable attack in the space of hours.

If you disagree with my politics, challenge them. Debate them.

If you don’t like me personally (even though I’m quite sure we’ve never met), then feel free to block me and don’t read what I write.

If, on the other hand, you’d prefer to do neither and continue the ad hominem attacks, then might I suggest you shout them into the void outside your window instead, because I’m not interested in reading them on this forum.

[Woodsey]

Failure? He’s made it to prime minister.....hardly a failure. What have you achieved in life other than being good at whining on the Internet?

I don’t quite know what your problem is with me, but that’s the second totally unreasonable attack in the space of hours.

If you disagree with my politics, challenge them. Debate them.

If you don’t like me personally (even though I’m quite sure we’ve never met), then feel free to block me and don’t read what I write.

If, on the other hand, you’d prefer to do neither and continue the ad hominem attacks, then might I suggest you shout them into the void outside your window instead, because I’m not interested in reading them on this forum.

I am challenging  it.....the reasoning is to make it to prime minister you have to be a success in life not a failure. If he as prime minister a failure in life what does that make you?

Makes me laugh when people throw out these comments like failure without looking at themselves in the mirror first.

[BigAdz]

Failure? He’s made it to prime minister.....hardly a failure. What have you achieved in life other than being good at whining on the Internet?

I don’t quite know what your problem is with me, but that’s the second totally unreasonable attack in the space of hours.

If you disagree with my politics, challenge them. Debate them.

If you don’t like me personally (even though I’m quite sure we’ve never met), then feel free to block me and don’t read what I write.

If, on the other hand, you’d prefer to do neither and continue the ad hominem attacks, then might I suggest you shout them into the void outside your window instead, because I’m not interested in reading them on this forum.

I am challenging  it.....the reasoning is to make it to prime minister you have to be a success in life not a failure. If he as prime minister a failure in life what does that make you?

Makes me laugh when people throw out these comments like failure without looking at themselves in the mirror first.

Not surprisingly, I agree with Woodsey. Not so much that Mull is an abject failure, but when you have idiots like Ed Miliband who is from a constituency which voted 78% in favour of Leave and he refuses to follow that path, then Boris is going to look a fool and there is nothing he can do about it.

Nothing honourable, democratic or sensible about any of it, but at least he is trying.

All Labour want is power and f knows what they want to do if they ever get it.

I'm not sure even a 16 year old could tell you.

[StuartHopkin]

Boris has failed to leave on the 31st October but he has succeeded in painting a picture that he has tried his best to deliver it.

He know needs to try something different as there is a good chance parliament just continue to delay and waste time.

Is he still a failure in your eyes Mulhuzz if he delivers the Conservatives a large majority in the next election?

I have no idea how anyone could class him as the worst PM ever. I mean, let's not forget Tony.

[Woodsey]

Boris has failed to leave on the 31st October but he has succeeded in painting a picture that he has tried his best to deliver it.

He know needs to try something different as there is a good chance parliament just continue to delay and waste time.

Is he still a failure in your eyes Mulhuzz if he delivers the Conservatives a large majority in the next election?

I have no idea how anyone could class him as the worst PM ever. I mean, let's not forget Tony.

He’s a few months into the job ffs, how anyone can start with the worst/best labels at this stage is beyond me.....

[Cf]

All of this is just Lakhoffian framing.

Johnson’s big pledge was ‘do or die, out by 31st’ (presumably he’d choose to die in a ditch)..and he has failed miserably.

By almost any standard you’d care to think of, he’s the worst PM ever.

This bickering over the timing of the election just serves to re-frame and distract.

All he had to do was act like an adult when he won on second reading but lost on the programme motion and resolved that WAB will take a few more weeks to pass and get on with it. But because Parliament, given time for the proper scrutiny might exercise a bit of sovereignty and make amendments which may not be totally helpful to Johnson winning a majority at the next election (even though a WAB would, in some form, have been passed) he’s decided to withdrawal the bill and threatens to go on strike.

Well fine, go on strike then you child. The absence of a PM is likely to be more effective than your Premiership, you abject failure.

Failure? He’s made it to prime minister.....hardly a failure. What have you achieved in life other than being good at whining on the Internet?

You've ignored the points made and turned it into a personal attack.

Having got the bill through second reading what do you think of his decision to not proceed with the legislation?

Do you think not getting your way 100% in a minority government and threatening to go on strike rather than seek compromise is a responsible course of action?

[Sheriff Fatman]

Peston

It’s done. Labour has instructed its MPs tonight to block @BorisJohnson’s attempt on Monday to have 12 Dec election. So @BorisJohnson will shelve the Withdrawal Agreement Bill. He will cancel the budget. There will be no government worth the name. Parliament will become...a zombie Parliament, unless and until the opposition find a way to wrest control from @BorisJohnson or hold an election. This deadlock is without modern precedent.

A Tory government on strike will do less damage to the country than a Tory government in full flow.  I can feel my standard of living improving already.

[Jon MW]

Boris has failed to leave on the 31st October but he has succeeded in painting a picture that he has tried his best to deliver it.

He know needs to try something different as there is a good chance parliament just continue to delay and waste time.

Is he still a failure in your eyes Mulhuzz if he delivers the Conservatives a large majority in the next election?

I have no idea how anyone could class him as the worst PM ever. I mean, let's not forget Tony.

He’s a few months into the job ffs, how anyone can start with the worst/best labels at this stage is beyond me.....

If all sides had done much less politicking from the start the whole thing would have resolved much more easily.

I think this current round is a mistake - if Johnson delivered any Brexit and then just blamed any compromises on the opposition and the EU he'd still get all the Brexit party votes flooding to the Tories and giving them a majority.

An election before Brexit is delivered seems a much riskier option all round.

As for best/worst - 'ineffective' is probably a more accurate label, because he hasn't really done much; but as pointed out he hasn't really been in the job very long so even that might be a bit harsh.

[tikay]

All of this is just Lakhoffian framing.

Johnson’s big pledge was ‘do or die, out by 31st’ (presumably he’d choose to die in a ditch)..and he has failed miserably.

By almost any standard you’d care to think of, he’s the worst PM ever.

This bickering over the timing of the election just serves to re-frame and distract.

All he had to do was act like an adult when he won on second reading but lost on the programme motion and resolved that WAB will take a few more weeks to pass and get on with it. But because Parliament, given time for the proper scrutiny might exercise a bit of sovereignty and make amendments which may not be totally helpful to Johnson winning a majority at the next election (even though a WAB would, in some form, have been passed) he’s decided to withdrawal the bill and threatens to go on strike.

Well fine, go on strike then you child. The absence of a PM is likely to be more effective than your Premiership, you abject failure.

I feel so inadequate when I have to look up what things mean.

In the forlorn hope I'm not the only one, here you go;


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Lakoff