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Author Topic: Syria, Migrants and Online Comments  (Read 32340 times)
mulhuzz
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« Reply #135 on: September 04, 2015, 12:26:44 PM »

So instead of doing good now we should go to 1990s Bosnia and do good.

Yup, makes loads of sense.
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leethefish
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« Reply #136 on: September 04, 2015, 12:46:07 PM »

So instead of doing good now we should go to 1990s Bosnia and do good.

Yup, makes loads of sense.

This post makes no sense whatsoever
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« Reply #137 on: September 04, 2015, 12:51:12 PM »

A post on Facebook from one of my friends


Just a little thought for do gooders. I and my mates served in Bosnia 94. We done more than enough escorting food and humanitarian aid through the country. We kept checkpoints secure so aid could reach the vulnerable. We saw the aftermath of a country wrecked and ravaged by war. Kids we saw with nothing no clothes on there backs or food to eat. I am fed up to the back teeth of do gooders and lefties. Go and do a  tour in a ravaged land. And see how the British army is the best at hearts and minds and helping the poorest of the poor!


I was also in Bosnia in 1994
i thought it said perhaps why I felt quite strongly

I am not sure I understand.  Why are you fed up of people wanting to do good?  You have previously done good yourself.  I just don't follow the reasoning.




Of course I want to do good and help these people but all the do gooders come out the wood work when something is so prominent in the news
They actually do fuck all (most of them) to help anyone apart from type on a keyboard that we should be doing something !

For what's it's worth I am working with a charity soldiers of the street ....to actually do something
These people actually do nothing but put people like me down for saying what the vast majority think but won't say .
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« Reply #138 on: September 04, 2015, 12:53:35 PM »

If you are setting yourself up in a group that is distinct from do-gooders, then what does that make you?

A do-badder? A do-nothinger?

As in my previous post I do do something unlike most of you keyboard warriors
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« Reply #139 on: September 04, 2015, 12:53:59 PM »

My heart goes out to these people as it does to all homeless people, people living in poverty anywhere in the World.
Hypothetical question. The Government say we will take as many refugees as is possible but they request that anyone that has a spare room/s or a second home will house these people in the short term for a mnimal or no payment would YOU be at the front of the queue with an offer ?
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« Reply #140 on: September 04, 2015, 12:57:19 PM »

My heart goes out to these people as it does to all homeless people, people living in poverty anywhere in the World.
Hypothetical question. The Government say we will take as many refugees as is possible but they request that anyone that has a spare room/s or a second home will house these people in the short term for a mnimal or no payment would YOU be at the front of the queue with an offer ?

Yes I would ! But only after all of the people already here in this country have a bed to sleep in
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« Reply #141 on: September 04, 2015, 01:53:44 PM »

If you are setting yourself up in a group that is distinct from do-gooders, then what does that make you?

A do-badder? A do-nothinger?

As in my previous post I do do something unlike most of you keyboard warriors

I understand what you mean, Lee, about how people are quick to say "somebody needs to help these people" without doing anything to help the cause, but is it a realistic thing to expect your everyday person to drop all they're doing with their lives and go and become an activist? The majority of people simply can't go out and help first hand due to other commitments, such as family and work. What you're doing is fantastic, fair play to you for going out there and working for a charity close to your heart. I've also done a large amount of charity work in the past, but I don't think it's fair to then expect everyone else to be in the same position.

Keep doing what your doing with your volunteer work though, kudos.
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« Reply #142 on: September 04, 2015, 01:55:44 PM »

A post on Facebook from one of my friends


Just a little thought for do gooders. I and my mates served in Bosnia 94. We done more than enough escorting food and humanitarian aid through the country. We kept checkpoints secure so aid could reach the vulnerable. We saw the aftermath of a country wrecked and ravaged by war. Kids we saw with nothing no clothes on there backs or food to eat. I am fed up to the back teeth of do gooders and lefties. Go and do a  tour in a ravaged land. And see how the British army is the best at hearts and minds and helping the poorest of the poor!


I was also in Bosnia in 1994
i thought it said perhaps why I felt quite strongly

I am not sure I understand.  Why are you fed up of people wanting to do good?  You have previously done good yourself.  I just don't follow the reasoning.




Of course I want to do good and help these people but all the do gooders come out the wood work when something is so prominent in the news
They actually do fuck all (most of them) to help anyone apart from type on a keyboard that we should be doing something !

For what's it's worth I am working with a charity soldiers of the street ....to actually do something
These people actually do nothing but put people like me down for saying what the vast majority think but won't say .


Lee, I said the same on Facebook that I do believe your heart is in the right place and you are genuinely concerned about the plight of homeless people in the UK, especially those who are ex-service.  That's a thing to be proud of, and something I support as well.

But then you criticise others for having an opinion or a stance on the refugee crisis; those who state that the UK government should do more, open our country up to help rescue more of these people who are having a terrible time.  I pay my taxes, I live in a democracy, I want (no, I expect) the 'elected' government to do the humane and morally right thing and help these people, these human beings. You seem to make a point that the two are mutually exclusive and if a refugee is brought into the UK, it's at the expense of a British soldier who needs housing.  That simply isn't and shouldn't be the case. 

I support (and donate) towards cancer research. That doesn't mean that I don't think that money should be spent on Alzheimer's, heart disease, MS, etc.  Extending the analogy, would I be right to say I only want money and research to go towards fighting cancer, and until that's sorted we shouldn't do anything to fight the other horrible diseases?  Of course I wouldn't. 

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« Reply #143 on: September 04, 2015, 02:01:41 PM »

Whilst this is a complex problem, there is no doubt that the West and USA have screwed up big time over the Middle East.

It goes back as centuries but in recent times the ideal that we have some moral superiority over others is part of the problem.

Trying to impose our Western concept of democracy in the Middle East shows how clueless our leaders have been.

For me, the biggest catalyst for this change was our reaction to 9/11. Going into Iraq (however bad Hussain was) was total madness. The desire of Bush and Blair to leave their mark on history has left an horrendous legacy. It was the biggest recruitment sergeant the extremists could have wished for and events since have only accelerated the problems.

What a nightmare.  

  
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baldock92
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« Reply #144 on: September 04, 2015, 02:03:34 PM »

A post on Facebook from one of my friends


Just a little thought for do gooders. I and my mates served in Bosnia 94. We done more than enough escorting food and humanitarian aid through the country. We kept checkpoints secure so aid could reach the vulnerable. We saw the aftermath of a country wrecked and ravaged by war. Kids we saw with nothing no clothes on there backs or food to eat. I am fed up to the back teeth of do gooders and lefties. Go and do a  tour in a ravaged land. And see how the British army is the best at hearts and minds and helping the poorest of the poor!


I was also in Bosnia in 1994
i thought it said perhaps why I felt quite strongly

I am not sure I understand.  Why are you fed up of people wanting to do good?  You have previously done good yourself.  I just don't follow the reasoning.




Of course I want to do good and help these people but all the do gooders come out the wood work when something is so prominent in the news
They actually do fuck all (most of them) to help anyone apart from type on a keyboard that we should be doing something !

For what's it's worth I am working with a charity soldiers of the street ....to actually do something
These people actually do nothing but put people like me down for saying what the vast majority think but won't say .


Lee, I said the same on Facebook that I do believe your heart is in the right place and you are genuinely concerned about the plight of homeless people in the UK, especially those who are ex-service.  That's a thing to be proud of, and something I support as well.

But then you criticise others for having an opinion or a stance on the refugee crisis; those who state that the UK government should do more, open our country up to help rescue more of these people who are having a terrible time.  I pay my taxes, I live in a democracy, I want (no, I expect) the 'elected' government to do the humane and morally right thing and help these people, these human beings. You seem to make a point that the two are mutually exclusive and if a refugee is brought into the UK, it's at the expense of a British soldier who needs housing.  That simply isn't and shouldn't be the case. 

I support (and donate) towards cancer research. That doesn't mean that I don't think that money should be spent on Alzheimer's, heart disease, MS, etc.  Extending the analogy, would I be right to say I only want money and research to go towards fighting cancer, and until that's sorted we shouldn't do anything to fight the other horrible diseases?  Of course I wouldn't. 



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taximan007
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« Reply #145 on: September 04, 2015, 02:16:27 PM »

My heart goes out to these people as it does to all homeless people, people living in poverty anywhere in the World.
Hypothetical question. The Government say we will take as many refugees as is possible but they request that anyone that has a spare room/s or a second home will house these people in the short term for a mnimal or no payment would YOU be at the front of the queue with an offer ?

Yes I would ! But only after all of the people already here in this country have a bed to sleep in

Just to clarify the YOU wasn't directed solely at you Lee it was a YOU in general to ALL people
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mulhuzz
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« Reply #146 on: September 04, 2015, 05:09:44 PM »

If you are setting yourself up in a group that is distinct from do-gooders, then what does that make you?

A do-badder? A do-nothinger?

As in my previous post I do do something unlike most of you keyboard warriors

This fucking silent majority bullshit annoys the living fuck out of me.

In going to quote from a YouTube video made by two German comedians responding to people making this kind of claim. Since the video is quite long, I'm going to paraphrase:

'Dear Misters 'I'm not a racist but-', professor 'hobby provocateur' and others,

....
Previously people were punks if they wanted to be contrarian, now you're a Patriot. You think you're the silent majority, saying what everyone is thinking, you call a spade a spade and stick your finger in the wound and you won't be dictated to by anyone. Call your selfs nationalists, Patriots, the silent majority, even William Wallace himself: you are egregious morons and you are not the majority. This country and this society will not tolerate your bullshit.

But no worries, we are under no illusions that you'll change your option, but at some point you'll pack your flags away, stop marching, come to your senses and be ashamed of your actions this summer for the rest of your lives; or end up on the Jeremy Kyle show.

Refugees welcome.'

This rallying against 'lefties' and 'do gooders' (whatever the fuck that means...) does nothing but detract from the issue and make the speaker feel important.

Well fuck that. Stop fucking chirping and start solving this problem like the rest of us. This problem will not be solved without everyone putting all their resources into it. So shut up and crack the fuck on. Or get your self to Jeremy Kyle.
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« Reply #147 on: September 04, 2015, 05:12:31 PM »

but in recent times the ideal that we have some moral superiority over others is part of the problem.

I agree the actions of the Western World have probably helped escalate the problem of extremism etc. However, imo we DO have moral superiority over many parts of the world. I am talking about those countries that kill hundreds of thousands of their own people in ethnic cleansing, do not allow women to have educations, have public executions in football stadiums for women accused of adultery, and loads of other simply horrendous stuff. I am all for moral relativism, but I still believe that most western countries - whilst still being dodgy in many ways - are morally superior to many of these horrible regimes. I remember a while back it seemed to be the liberal left (of which I consider myself to be a part) who were the most ardent apologists for the 'cultural differences' of many Islamic states. Their argument was that we should not judge cultures that are different to ours - in other words if it is their culture to have, say, enforced female genital mutilation, then it would be intolerant of us to criticise them for that. Maybe it makes me intolerant - I don't think so! - but I just cannot get on board with this concept.

BTW, I see that a similar argument was being used a short time ago by right wingers in the USA about gay marriage (and other things). They were arguing that gay marriage supporters were guilty of intolerance because they were not taking into account the views of those who think it is against God's will. In other words, they are saying "you are intolerant for not tolerating my intolerance"! Scary that this is being accepted by some people as a valid argument.
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« Reply #148 on: September 04, 2015, 05:29:47 PM »

"Well fuck that. Stop fucking chirping and start solving this problem like the rest of us."

Can you clarify exactly what problems you are solving?  All I can see is you shooting off on an internet forum having a go at people who don't see things exactly as you do.

We clearly need to join other countries in offering refuge to the people involved in this human tragedy.  Most people on the thread agree.

Of those that aren't sure, nobody has been out of line so I don't know why it needs your santimonious hectoring whenever anyone has an alternative point. 
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« Reply #149 on: September 04, 2015, 05:33:24 PM »

but in recent times the ideal that we have some moral superiority over others is part of the problem.

I agree the actions of the Western World have probably helped escalate the problem of extremism etc. However, imo we DO have moral superiority over many parts of the world. I am talking about those countries that kill hundreds of thousands of their own people in ethnic cleansing, do not allow women to have educations, have public executions in football stadiums for women accused of adultery, and loads of other simply horrendous stuff. I am all for moral relativism, but I still believe that most western countries - whilst still being dodgy in many ways - are morally superior to many of these horrible regimes. I remember a while back it seemed to be the liberal left (of which I consider myself to be a part) who were the most ardent apologists for the 'cultural differences' of many Islamic states. Their argument was that we should not judge cultures that are different to ours - in other words if it is their culture to have, say, enforced female genital mutilation, then it would be intolerant of us to criticise them for that. Maybe it makes me intolerant - I don't think so! - but I just cannot get on board with this concept.

BTW, I see that a similar argument was being used a short time ago by right wingers in the USA about gay marriage (and other things). They were arguing that gay marriage supporters were guilty of intolerance because they were not taking into account the views of those who think it is against God's will. In other words, they are saying "you are intolerant for not tolerating my intolerance"! Scary that this is being accepted by some people as a valid argument.

Well said, these people aren't running away from Bush and Blair, they are running away from utter bastards who should be executed en masse.

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