COVID19

[StuartHopkin]

In other news PPE order for the UK being submitted today by the closing team.

If approved by the next level up on Friday we will have a UK PPE order for 4m items over the next 12 weeks.

Fingers crossed, its taken 3 weeks, but will be worth it if approved.

[booder]

Sorry to hear Arb. All the best to you and your family.

[Geo the Sarge]

The government is now paying 6.5m people's wages in this country.   As a pro punter who doesn't get this pay out ( i don't care and don't want it - the pay out) i am interested in people's views on my views.  There are probably 1-2m people in the country out of those 6m who are sitting on huge property equity and other share/savings wealth from the previous 2 decades of successive governments looking afterr them as house owners.  Is there a moral obligation to refuse governement hand outs as a worker who has a few quid when you don't need it to get by for a few months and save the government building up debts for the next geneation to have to pay off?   I have spoke to numerous people who are sitting at home on a fully paid extended holiday doing zero work and loving life whilst the nhs, government and business is bang under it?   What are people's views?

Morning

I think your 1-2 million sitting on huge property equity is massively overstated.
If you think everyone in hospitality, retail, tourism are furloughed, they are going to make up a large chunk of that 6m, and they aren't going to be in there 50's.
Your right though, I am sure there are some people who are furloughed who could get through without it.

Anyone with furloughed with a mortgage probably doesn't need 80% of their wage if they have taken the 3 month mortgage holiday.
 
I would suggest that for 90% of those currently furloughed, the chance of redundancy in the next 12 months has increased greatly. So whether they are roflling around at home or doing some good financial planning, receiving the furlough monies is probably the right thing for them to do.

Another point worth making is that it is the employers choice not the employees. They would have just received a letter stating they are being furloughed. Employees arent claiming at such, they are just getting paid as usual.

My thinking is also along these lines, however one of my sons has been furloughed and he asked me about taking the 3 month holiday on mortgage. I told him that probably best he doesn't take the 3 month holiday at this time as he can get by comfortably enough on the 80% (he isn't a high earner by any means) and as you relate to, we don't know that further down the line redundancy may happen. If it should, then would be an ideal time to take it if he had no income and had to look for another job.

Geo

[superwomble]

Sorry for your loss arbboy

[Ledders]

That was a lovely write-up arbboy about your Gran.

To answer you questions, I think the government overcooked it with the 80% and hoping employers topped up so everyone could keep spending to keep the economy going but it turns out you can't spend any money.

I believe there is always a moral obligation to help those less fortunate, no more or less so now the government is paying you to sit at home.

I am furloughed on 80% and whilst it isn't working, it is by no means a 'holiday' seeing as you can't do anything and the underlying stresses of the situation. I guess I'm lucky in that my job is fairly tolerable so I would rather be working! The only bit I dislike is the commute on the tube which is unrelentingly terrible so it is nice to have a break from that.

[EvilPie]

The government is now paying 6.5m people's wages in this country.   As a pro punter who doesn't get this pay out ( i don't care and don't want it - the pay out) i am interested in people's views on my views.  There are probably 1-2m people in the country out of those 6m who are sitting on huge property equity and other share/savings wealth from the previous 2 decades of successive governments looking afterr them as house owners.  Is there a moral obligation to refuse governement hand outs as a worker who has a few quid when you don't need it to get by for a few months and save the government building up debts for the next geneation to have to pay off?   I have spoke to numerous people who are sitting at home on a fully paid extended holiday doing zero work and loving life whilst the nhs, government and business is bang under it?   What are people's views?

Morning

I think your 1-2 million sitting on huge property equity is massively overstated.
If you think everyone in hospitality, retail, tourism are furloughed, they are going to make up a large chunk of that 6m, and they aren't going to be in there 50's.
Your right though, I am sure there are some people who are furloughed who could get through without it.

Anyone with furloughed with a mortgage probably doesn't need 80% of their wage if they have taken the 3 month mortgage holiday.
 
I would suggest that for 90% of those currently furloughed, the chance of redundancy in the next 12 months has increased greatly. So whether they are roflling around at home or doing some good financial planning, receiving the furlough monies is probably the right thing for them to do.

Another point worth making is that it is the employers choice not the employees. They would have just received a letter stating they are being furloughed. Employees arent claiming at such, they are just getting paid as usual.

My thinking is also along these lines, however one of my sons has been furloughed and he asked me about taking the 3 month holiday on mortgage. I told him that probably best he doesn't take the 3 month holiday at this time as he can get by comfortably enough on the 80% (he isn't a high earner by any means) and as you relate to, we don't know that further down the line redundancy may happen. If it should, then would be an ideal time to take it if he had no income and had to look for another job.

Geo

Hi Geo, hope you're well mate.

My personal; thoughts on the payment holiday are that everybody who has the option available to them should take it unless they are 100% certain their job is secure after all this blows over.

People should be taking the money but sticking it in a separate account that's only there as mortgage money. Pi**ing it up the wall or blowing it on a holiday would be ridiculous but keeping it to one side for future mortgage payments if needed would be really smart.

If someone is sensible enough to save it then they should take the holiday, they can always pay it back as an over payment once they know their job is secure.

In your sons case as long as he sits in the 'sensible' camp then I'd say he should take the payment holiday now whilst they're easy to get. If redundancy comes it could be in 6 months time and by then payment holidays may not be a forgone conclusion and could come with a much tougher application process.

Better to have the cash now to make future mortgage payments than risk not getting the holiday in future if/when needed.

Again there is a caveat..... If he's going to blow the mortgage savings on boats and hoes then do not take the payment break. If it's going in to a savings account until needed then take it now.

Just my two cents worth....

Matt

[arbboy]

Thanks for the responses to the questions.  Obviously the vast majority of people need this support and i am fine with that but i think there is a decent chunk of people out there who could do the right thing and save the government a bit off the bill for this which is going to cripple the country for years.

Plenty of people out there with net worth of £500k + with house equity, pension pots and savings/investments in middle England for example.   It isn't that hard to turn £15k of that into cash short term to get through a few sticky months after having 10-20 years of these types having it right off financially.

[Geo the Sarge]

The government is now paying 6.5m people's wages in this country.   As a pro punter who doesn't get this pay out ( i don't care and don't want it - the pay out) i am interested in people's views on my views.  There are probably 1-2m people in the country out of those 6m who are sitting on huge property equity and other share/savings wealth from the previous 2 decades of successive governments looking afterr them as house owners.  Is there a moral obligation to refuse governement hand outs as a worker who has a few quid when you don't need it to get by for a few months and save the government building up debts for the next geneation to have to pay off?   I have spoke to numerous people who are sitting at home on a fully paid extended holiday doing zero work and loving life whilst the nhs, government and business is bang under it?   What are people's views?

Morning

I think your 1-2 million sitting on huge property equity is massively overstated.
If you think everyone in hospitality, retail, tourism are furloughed, they are going to make up a large chunk of that 6m, and they aren't going to be in there 50's.
Your right though, I am sure there are some people who are furloughed who could get through without it.

Anyone with furloughed with a mortgage probably doesn't need 80% of their wage if they have taken the 3 month mortgage holiday.
 
I would suggest that for 90% of those currently furloughed, the chance of redundancy in the next 12 months has increased greatly. So whether they are roflling around at home or doing some good financial planning, receiving the furlough monies is probably the right thing for them to do.

Another point worth making is that it is the employers choice not the employees. They would have just received a letter stating they are being furloughed. Employees arent claiming at such, they are just getting paid as usual.

My thinking is also along these lines, however one of my sons has been furloughed and he asked me about taking the 3 month holiday on mortgage. I told him that probably best he doesn't take the 3 month holiday at this time as he can get by comfortably enough on the 80% (he isn't a high earner by any means) and as you relate to, we don't know that further down the line redundancy may happen. If it should, then would be an ideal time to take it if he had no income and had to look for another job.

Geo

Hi Geo, hope you're well mate.

My personal; thoughts on the payment holiday are that everybody who has the option available to them should take it unless they are 100% certain their job is secure after all this blows over.

People should be taking the money but sticking it in a separate account that's only there as mortgage money. Pi**ing it up the wall or blowing it on a holiday would be ridiculous but keeping it to one side for future mortgage payments if needed would be really smart.

If someone is sensible enough to save it then they should take the holiday, they can always pay it back as an over payment once they know their job is secure.

In your sons case as long as he sits in the 'sensible' camp then I'd say he should take the payment holiday now whilst they're easy to get. If redundancy comes it could be in 6 months time and by then payment holidays may not be a forgone conclusion and could come with a much tougher application process.

Better to have the cash now to make future mortgage payments than risk not getting the holiday in future if/when needed.

Again there is a caveat..... If he's going to blow the mortgage savings on boats and hoes then do not take the payment break. If it's going in to a savings account until needed then take it now.

Just my two cents worth....

Matt

Hi Matt,

all well here thanks. Unfortunately like most youngsters he's more likely to just use up the money (as his Dad would have done at his age BTW.) On 80% he can make the cutbacks he needs to.

Geo

[Jon MW]

...
Plenty of people out there with net worth of £500k + with house equity, pension pots and savings/investments in middle England for example.   It isn't that hard to turn £15k of that into cash short term to get through a few sticky months after having 10-20 years of these types having it right off financially.

That would be about the top 30% wealthiest individuals.

That is quite a few - but I would question just how many of those are being furloughed.

There will probably be some but I suspect the total amount that could be saved if they chose it this way might only be a few million - proportional to the total I would expect it to be a trivial difference.

[EvilPie]

Hi Matt,

all well here thanks. Unfortunately like most youngsters he's more likely to just use up the money (as his Dad would have done at his age BTW.) On 80% he can make the cutbacks he needs to.

Geo

Lol. Yep me too

Definitely wants to keep paying it and make the cutbacks then. Long term it's by far the best proposition.

[RickBFA]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-52526554

This news article appears to confirm a Covid case in France where infection took place between 14-22 December.

Thats more than a month earlier than the first case was thought to exist there.

Makes me wonder how long it was around in China before it was either discovered or they admitted its existence.

I doubt we’ll ever know but China have at best been less than honest with what they knew.

Fancy the world economy getting trashed and a cash rich super power being able to buy into assets like energy/oil/gas production at a fraction of their value a few weeks earlier.

[Marky147]

Get Icke on the case.

[RickBFA]

Get Icke on the case.

China engineering this situation may seem totally ridiculous but they will defo be buying assets/resources at knock down prices.

Every cloud has a silver lining, especially if you are China.

[Doobs]

Get Icke on the case.

China engineering this situation may seem totally ridiculous but they will defo be buying assets/resources at knock down prices.

Every cloud has a silver lining, especially if you are China.

Anyone can buy assets/resources at "knock down" prices. 

[RickBFA]

Get Icke on the case.

China engineering this situation may seem totally ridiculous but they will defo be buying assets/resources at knock down prices.

Every cloud has a silver lining, especially if you are China.

Anyone can buy assets/resources at "knock down" prices. 

True, especially if you are a cash rich country.

You not a little curious about the way this has developed?