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COVID19
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Topic: COVID19 (Read 357175 times)
kukushkin88
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Posts: 3892
Re: COVID19
«
Reply #2250 on:
May 13, 2020, 09:01:50 AM »
Quote from: jakally on May 13, 2020, 05:14:10 AM
This is a long read (about 40 pages) but does a good job of pulling together all the pieces of the UK decision making up to lockdown.
The tone is balanced & non-hysterical - obviously that will deter some.
https://www.iiss.org/blogs/survival-blog/2020/05/the-uk-and-covid-19
Morning
It is a good piece and looks to be impeccably researched, no surprises in it for anyone who has been following events closely but it is a valuable account of what’s happened to this point all the same. As he rightly points out, having a regularly updated contemporaneous log of events will be valuable for the inquiry. Actions should only be critically judged on what was known at the time, not what is known/obvious with hindsight.
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kukushkin88
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Re: COVID19
«
Reply #2251 on:
May 13, 2020, 10:57:07 AM »
Via Brillo, who isn’t everyone’s cup of tea but is largely reliable:
https://twitter.com/afneil/status/1260462206883450885?s=21
Yesterday morning, Hancock was bragging about proportionately lower deaths in care homes compared to other nations.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/may/13/coronavirus-real-care-home-death-toll-double-official-figure-study-says?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other
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RED-DOG
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Re: COVID19
«
Reply #2252 on:
May 13, 2020, 10:59:43 AM »
Kay Burley to health minister this morning:
Can I visit my mother if she puts her house up for sale?
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The older I get, the better I was.
4KSuited
Hero Member
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Posts: 1148
Re: COVID19
«
Reply #2253 on:
May 13, 2020, 11:05:41 AM »
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/world-us-canada-52622037/coronavirus-the-lost-six-weeks-when-us-failed-to-contain-outbreak
Some interesting analysis in this piece focusing on the US.
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Doobs
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Posts: 16575
Re: COVID19
«
Reply #2254 on:
May 13, 2020, 11:50:20 AM »
The CMI has updated their weekly mortality monitor. It is easier to see the proper trend when just looking at weekly figures.
https://www.actuaries.org.uk/system/files/field/document/Mortality%20monitor%20Week%2018%202020%20v01%202020-05-12.pdf
Cliffs
Total excess deaths in range 56,000 to 63,000
Significant fall in weekly excess deaths over last fornight from 13,000 to 6,500 a week
The proportion of excess deaths was down to 58% in week 16; it was 144% in week 16. 100% signifies double the normal number of deaths.
So overall deaths are falling a bit quicker than I expected. But still we have a disease where the death are only halving every two weeks, whereas without restrictions they were doubling every 3 days.
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Most of the bets placed so far seem more like hopeful punts rather than value spots
Jon MW
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Posts: 6191
Re: COVID19
«
Reply #2255 on:
May 13, 2020, 12:33:09 PM »
Quote from: kukushkin88 on May 13, 2020, 09:01:50 AM
Quote from: jakally on May 13, 2020, 05:14:10 AM
This is a long read (about 40 pages) but does a good job of pulling together all the pieces of the UK decision making up to lockdown.
The tone is balanced & non-hysterical - obviously that will deter some.
https://www.iiss.org/blogs/survival-blog/2020/05/the-uk-and-covid-19
Morning
It is a good piece and looks to be impeccably researched, no surprises in it for anyone who has been following events closely but it is a valuable account of what’s happened to this point all the same. As he rightly points out, having a regularly updated contemporaneous log of events will be valuable for the inquiry. Actions should only be critically judged on what was known at the time, not what is known/obvious with hindsight.
It's very good. And it is packed full of information, there's very little rhetoric at all - if anyone wants to read it you should put time aside for it because it's really not suitable for skim reading.
I did like the description,
"Known for his optimistic, blustery style and his inattention to detail,
Johnson may have been naturally inclined to accept options that demanded
the minimum rather than the maximum, and so content to be advised to
follow a gradual path of escalation"
... it's good that Johnson's character is so well known that this judgement can probably be taken as objective observation rather than opinion.
From reading that I think there are questions of detail such as PPE provision, but in terms of overall strategy I think the two main pillars of any enquiry should be the time between the 10th March to the 23rd of March and what 'should/could' have been done dfferently then and communication throughout the whole process.
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Jon "the British cowboy" Woodfield
2011 blonde MTT League August Champion
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TightEnd
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Posts: I am a geek!!
Re: COVID19
«
Reply #2256 on:
May 13, 2020, 01:14:08 PM »
Starmer filleted Boris at PMQs, sort of what you would expect. Practised barrister who can get key nfo from briefs quickly, good at cross-examination versus a man who is not on top of the detail, not a strength of his and crucially doesn't have a braying horde behind him for support, temporarily
Boris cocked up, and afterwards Starmer sent this
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My eyes are open wide
By the way,I made it through the day
I watch the world outside
By the way, I'm leaving out today
TightEnd
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Re: COVID19
«
Reply #2257 on:
May 13, 2020, 01:34:30 PM »
Tested and untested Covid-19 patients were discharged from hospitals in the rush for beds to care homes without protection:
https://www.newstatesman.com/science-tech/coronavirus/2020/04/coronavirus-care-homes-carers-elderly-deaths-PPE
including first hand testimony
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My eyes are open wide
By the way,I made it through the day
I watch the world outside
By the way, I'm leaving out today
arbboy
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Posts: 13285
Re: COVID19
«
Reply #2258 on:
May 13, 2020, 01:38:05 PM »
Boris is going to be torched by Starmer over the virus and all other areas moving forward. Could start getting really ugly for the tories in PMQ's. Boris isn't even on the same level debate wise as Starmer.
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teddybloat
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Posts: 755
Re: COVID19
«
Reply #2259 on:
May 13, 2020, 04:34:15 PM »
I work in a covid affected care home and it's miserable.
We've had a few deaths because if covid itself, but at least as many deaths related to the lockdown. Doctors won't visit the home and hospitals won't admit residents so conditions aren't being treated as they would in the past. The isolation of residents means they are lacking their natural exercise of moving in the home, or to the garden. And the effects of isolation on people living with dementia is deleterious.
We've been taking staff temps before we start work and monitoring for symptoms. Recently testing capacity has meant we can test asymptomatic residents and staff. The levels of positives is scary.
I have contracted covid yet I have absolutely no symptoms and my temperature has remained normal throughout. Three other staff are the same. No symptoms.
I strongly believe covid is prevalent amongst the healthy population and that lock down is causing more harm than it seeks to redress. Both in and out of care homes.
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jakally
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Posts: 2009
Re: COVID19
«
Reply #2260 on:
May 13, 2020, 06:26:43 PM »
Quote from: teddybloat on May 13, 2020, 04:34:15 PM
I work in a covid affected care home and it's miserable.
We've had a few deaths because if covid itself, but at least as many deaths related to the lockdown. Doctors won't visit the home and hospitals won't admit residents so conditions aren't being treated as they would in the past. The isolation of residents means they are lacking their natural exercise of moving in the home, or to the garden. And the effects of isolation on people living with dementia is deleterious.
We've been taking staff temps before we start work and monitoring for symptoms. Recently testing capacity has meant we can test asymptomatic residents and staff. The levels of positives is scary.
I have contracted covid yet I have absolutely no symptoms and my temperature has remained normal throughout. Three other staff are the same. No symptoms.
I strongly believe covid is prevalent amongst the healthy population and that lock down is causing more harm than it seeks to redress. Both in and out of care homes.
Thank you for the inside info Teddy.
Really feel for everyone affected by the difficulties in care homes - staff, residents & families.
Can only imagine how worrying & stressful it is for all of you, & how devastating to have lost so many in these conditions.
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Rubbish2407
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Posts: 1227
Re: COVID19
«
Reply #2261 on:
May 13, 2020, 07:35:43 PM »
Quote from: arbboy on May 13, 2020, 01:38:05 PM
Boris is going to be torched by Starmer over the virus and all other areas moving forward. Could start getting really ugly for the tories in PMQ's. Boris isn't even on the same level debate wise as Starmer.
Thought this was brilliant
https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknews/pmqs-verdict-keir-starmer-isnt-looking-for-quick-victories-which-makes-his-weekly-interrogation-all-the-more-terrifying/ar-BB141Z8A?ocid=spartanntp
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"The Full Eso Kral": To back every possible outcome in an event and lose whatever happens.
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nirvana
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Posts: 7804
Re: COVID19
«
Reply #2262 on:
May 13, 2020, 08:29:10 PM »
Quote from: Rubbish2407 on May 13, 2020, 07:35:43 PM
Quote from: arbboy on May 13, 2020, 01:38:05 PM
Boris is going to be torched by Starmer over the virus and all other areas moving forward. Could start getting really ugly for the tories in PMQ's. Boris isn't even on the same level debate wise as Starmer.
Thought this was brilliant
https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknews/pmqs-verdict-keir-starmer-isnt-looking-for-quick-victories-which-makes-his-weekly-interrogation-all-the-more-terrifying/ar-BB141Z8A?ocid=spartanntp
Incredible contrast to the student union style of Corbyn with his perception of class war and rich trying to kill poor underpinning every accusation and rant.
I've got a mildly personal beef with Keir Starmer over Brexit (sure he's bothered) but I think I can get over it. This is much better from Labour. If he can silence all the left wing cry baby critics who want him to shout accusations around all the time then I think another year or so of this and Boris, even with his massive election victory, could well be toast.
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sola virtus nobilitat
RickBFA
Hero Member
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Posts: 2001
Re: COVID19
«
Reply #2263 on:
May 13, 2020, 09:48:14 PM »
https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.examinerlive.co.uk/news/local-news/uk-freedom-movement-sheffield-lockdown-18246932.amp
UK freedom movement planning 60 illegal gatherings this weekend, including one in my local park in Sheffield.
Let’s not worry about the reproduction rate or people dying.
Crazy.
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RickBFA
Hero Member
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Posts: 2001
Re: COVID19
«
Reply #2264 on:
May 14, 2020, 09:58:46 AM »
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=H2TEOnOnHVM
This Swedish Professor has interesting views on the handling and on the Imperial Study. Appears well qualified in this area.
Thought it was worth a look to get different views, not sure if he’s right or wrong.
Perhaps it’s fair to say that the situation has a long way to go and ultimately history will judge how this has been/should have been handled when it fully plays out.
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