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Jon MW
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« Reply #3240 on: October 21, 2020, 12:58:42 PM »

Seems like a political own goal to offer 60m in negotiations and then only give 22m when the negotiations breakdown. This is a bad look.

...
It appears they have climbed down, Johnson has just announced £60m in Parliament.

It wasn't £22m instead of the £60m (according to the BBC yesterday).

The £22m was always being provided as part of 'everyones' funding for the epidemic control - it's for things like testing and track and trace.

The government specifically said the £60m was never off the table - that's additional funding for the economic aspect.

EDIT: this is the article https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-54622293
"Health Secretary Matt Hancock later told the House of Commons that a £60m offer previously made to local leaders remained "on the table"."
and
"The £22m mentioned by Mr Johnson - which is for expenses such as local enforcement and test and trace - is separate to the £60m that Mr Hancock spoke of."

cover what I wrote
« Last Edit: October 21, 2020, 01:01:37 PM by Jon MW » Logged

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RickBFA
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« Reply #3241 on: October 21, 2020, 01:21:31 PM »

Seems like a political own goal to offer 60m in negotiations and then only give 22m when the negotiations breakdown. This is a bad look.

...
It appears they have climbed down, Johnson has just announced £60m in Parliament.

It wasn't £22m instead of the £60m (according to the BBC yesterday).

The £22m was always being provided as part of 'everyones' funding for the epidemic control - it's for things like testing and track and trace.

The government specifically said the £60m was never off the table - that's additional funding for the economic aspect.

EDIT: this is the article https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-54622293
"Health Secretary Matt Hancock later told the House of Commons that a £60m offer previously made to local leaders remained "on the table"."
and
"The £22m mentioned by Mr Johnson - which is for expenses such as local enforcement and test and trace - is separate to the £60m that Mr Hancock spoke of."

cover what I wrote


Exactly. It was never off the table.

Interesting that Dan Jarvis has been pragmatic and done a sensible deal.

Same in Liverpool and Lancashire areas.

It takes two to tango in every walk of life but it’s all the Governments fault that both sides got stubborn in Greater Manchester.
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« Reply #3242 on: October 21, 2020, 02:55:59 PM »

The news report I saw said that Burnham had asked for £95M, was offered £60M and then countered with £65M which was refused.

I'd imagine he's just a political tit head making the most of his opportunity to get in front of the cameras.

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« Reply #3243 on: October 21, 2020, 03:16:39 PM »

The news report I saw said that Burnham had asked for £95M, was offered £60M and then countered with £65M which was refused.

I'd imagine he's just a political tit head making the most of his opportunity to get in front of the cameras.



To the people of Manchester he's a legend. I'm not saying he's perfect but he sure does stick up for the working class. He's the leader that Labour could have had and if that have had happened I would have put money on him winning the election.

He's also well respected in Liverpool - he was born in the Old Roan area and his speech in the House of Commons on the Hillsborough 96 was superb.

He's also battled for those like me who lost their pensions when the Tories changed the pension age.

We all need an Andy Burnham sticking up for the ordinary people, long may he continue.

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Pokerpops
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« Reply #3244 on: October 21, 2020, 03:22:25 PM »

The news report I saw said that Burnham had asked for £95M, was offered £60M and then countered with £65M which was refused.

I'd imagine he's just a political tit head making the most of his opportunity to get in front of the cameras.



To the people of Manchester he's a legend. I'm not saying he's perfect but he sure does stick up for the working class. He's the leader that Labour could have had and if that have had happened I would have put money on him winning the election.

He's also well respected in Liverpool - he was born in the Old Roan area and his speech in the House of Commons on the Hillsborough 96 was superb.

He's also battled for those like me who lost their pensions when the Tories changed the pension age.

We all need an Andy Burnham sticking up for the ordinary people, long may he continue.



Has the knack of seeming reasonable. This was a battle he knew he would lose, and he’s played his cards well in relation to his electorate. The £60mill is for local use and is in addition to all the central government administered support I believe.
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« Reply #3245 on: October 21, 2020, 03:26:35 PM »


This seems to be at direct odds with the Michael Yeadon piece on Lockdown Sceptics.

an interesting read, agree or not, about “errors” by Sage —

Error 1: Assuming 100% of the population was susceptible to the virus

Error 2: The belief that the percentage of the population that has been infected can be determined by finding out who has antibodies.



https://lockdownsceptics.org/what-sage-got-wrong/


Who are we supposed to believe? Maybe Doobs or JonMW’s wife could enlighten us.
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« Reply #3246 on: October 21, 2020, 03:46:53 PM »

The news report I saw said that Burnham had asked for £95M, was offered £60M and then countered with £65M which was refused.

I'd imagine he's just a political tit head making the most of his opportunity to get in front of the cameras.



To the people of Manchester he's a legend. I'm not saying he's perfect but he sure does stick up for the working class. He's the leader that Labour could have had and if that have had happened I would have put money on him winning the election.

He's also well respected in Liverpool - he was born in the Old Roan area and his speech in the House of Commons on the Hillsborough 96 was superb.

He's also battled for those like me who lost their pensions when the Tories changed the pension age.

We all need an Andy Burnham sticking up for the ordinary people, long may he continue.



Well to anyone who's never heard of him he's coming across as a tit head 

Good to hear that he's actually most likely decent.

If he really is a good person and genuinely has the good of the people at the forefront of his agenda let's hope his moment in front of the cameras gets him where he needs to be.
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« Reply #3247 on: October 21, 2020, 04:08:57 PM »

The news report I saw said that Burnham had asked for £95M, was offered £60M and then countered with £65M which was refused.

I'd imagine he's just a political tit head making the most of his opportunity to get in front of the cameras.



To the people of Manchester he's a legend. I'm not saying he's perfect but he sure does stick up for the working class. He's the leader that Labour could have had and if that have had happened I would have put money on him winning the election.

He's also well respected in Liverpool - he was born in the Old Roan area and his speech in the House of Commons on the Hillsborough 96 was superb.

He's also battled for those like me who lost their pensions when the Tories changed the pension age.

We all need an Andy Burnham sticking up for the ordinary people, long may he continue.



He should have been labour leader years ago , has always come across to me as a decent genuine guy
trying his best for those not so well off .

I’m no labour man but would have probably voted for him in a GE if he had been given the chance.

« Last Edit: October 21, 2020, 04:10:36 PM by bookiebasher » Logged
StuartHopkin
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« Reply #3248 on: October 21, 2020, 04:09:20 PM »

The news report I saw said that Burnham had asked for £95M, was offered £60M and then countered with £65M which was refused.

I'd imagine he's just a political tit head making the most of his opportunity to get in front of the cameras.



To the people of Manchester he's a legend. I'm not saying he's perfect but he sure does stick up for the working class. He's the leader that Labour could have had and if that have had happened I would have put money on him winning the election.

He's also well respected in Liverpool - he was born in the Old Roan area and his speech in the House of Commons on the Hillsborough 96 was superb.

He's also battled for those like me who lost their pensions when the Tories changed the pension age.

We all need an Andy Burnham sticking up for the ordinary people, long may he continue.



Well to anyone who's never heard of him he's coming across as a tit head 

Good to hear that he's actually most likely decent.

If he really is a good person and genuinely has the good of the people at the forefront of his agenda let's hope his moment in front of the cameras gets him where he needs to be he wouldn't be a politician.


FYP
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bookiebasher
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« Reply #3249 on: October 21, 2020, 04:43:10 PM »

The news report I saw said that Burnham had asked for £95M, was offered £60M and then countered with £65M which was refused.

I'd imagine he's just a political tit head making the most of his opportunity to get in front of the cameras.



To the people of Manchester he's a legend. I'm not saying he's perfect but he sure does stick up for the working class. He's the leader that Labour could have had and if that have had happened I would have put money on him winning the election.

He's also well respected in Liverpool - he was born in the Old Roan area and his speech in the House of Commons on the Hillsborough 96 was superb.

He's also battled for those like me who lost their pensions when the Tories changed the pension age.

We all need an Andy Burnham sticking up for the ordinary people, long may he continue.



He should have been labour leader years ago , has always come across to me as a decent genuine guy
trying his best for those not so well off .

I’m no labour man but would have probably voted for him in a GE if he had been given the chance.

For full disclosure he was another of my losing political bets when he challenged for labour leader
many years ago  

Was probably my money what jinxed him  Grin

Still can’t get the quotes thingy right. Par for the course actually.
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Doobs
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« Reply #3250 on: October 21, 2020, 04:47:28 PM »


This seems to be at direct odds with the Michael Yeadon piece on Lockdown Sceptics.

an interesting read, agree or not, about “errors” by Sage —

Error 1: Assuming 100% of the population was susceptible to the virus

Error 2: The belief that the percentage of the population that has been infected can be determined by finding out who has antibodies.



https://lockdownsceptics.org/what-sage-got-wrong/


Who are we supposed to believe? Maybe Doobs or JonMW’s wife could enlighten us.

Michael Yeadon is paid to write for lockdown sceptics and the Spectator.  His stuff seeems hugely biassed.  I hope this is the end of the epidemic, but he has the habit of presenting things as facts which are just conjecture.  He puts out a chart which is "evidence based reality", which is full of massive asumptions.  I don't know why some of these evidence based scientists seem to ignore evidence and be so keen on assumptions?  He says the alternative chart needs to have growth like in March for Sage to be correct when it is clear that most of us are not behaving like we did back in March, treatments are better, hospitals are better prepared and so on.  So it is absolutely clear that the growth rate really should be lower now than in March.   He says that John Ioannidis as the one person who is pre-eminant in the field, when there are literally thousands of people who are equally worthy and nobody knows everything on the topic (particularly as there are still many unknowns).   I could go on.

I don't like his attitude to Sage either, it is clear there are differing voices within Sage, but he misrepresents them a all believing one thing (and that is the straw man Yeadon heas created) and then he just personally attacks them.  

There is some good news in the recent UK statistics, though deaths have hit over 200 a day, there has been a significant slowdown in the case growth rate over the last week or so.  We can argue the toss whether this is Government intervention, people changing habits or the end of the epidemic.  I hope we can level off the cases and deaths from here.  
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« Reply #3251 on: October 21, 2020, 04:51:15 PM »

Greater Manchester will be placed under stricter coronavirus controls after talks between the Government and civic leaders concluded without an agreement

Does the absence of an agreement (all over +/-£5m apparently on a £60m payment) make any difference to compliance with the measures or not?

Seems to me that both the Government and Burnham are playing political games whilst intensive care units start to get filled. This could have been sorted a week ago.

Not a surprise that the bigger the ego’s the more they both dig their heels in.

No one comes out of this with any credit.

And if Manchester now get less than £60m Burnham will look a bit of a pillock.

See I don't get this point of view. This isn't a game that the govt/Burnham have won or lost. It's about supporting people. Give them the fucking money.

If businesses are forced to close, or people can't afford to put food on the table, etc, etc, then I hardly think the govt can respond "well we'd have given you the money but Burnham wanted more so we decided to give you less instead. Blame him."

Actually no. That's exactly what is going to happen isn't it?

Agree - even if the Govt decides to stop discussions and insist on Tier 3 I cannot think of any good reason not to give the money as per whatever the last offer was. Will rebound badly on the Govt for sure

It appears they have climbed down, Johnson has just announced £60m in Parliament.

Sounds like the govt position was mis reported. Maybe Boris didn't think a nationwide broadcast was a good place to clarify the situation
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« Reply #3252 on: October 21, 2020, 05:18:58 PM »

The news report I saw said that Burnham had asked for £95M, was offered £60M and then countered with £65M which was refused.

I'd imagine he's just a political tit head making the most of his opportunity to get in front of the cameras.



To the people of Manchester he's a legend. I'm not saying he's perfect but he sure does stick up for the working class. He's the leader that Labour could have had and if that have had happened I would have put money on him winning the election.

He's also well respected in Liverpool - he was born in the Old Roan area and his speech in the House of Commons on the Hillsborough 96 was superb.

He's also battled for those like me who lost their pensions when the Tories changed the pension age.

We all need an Andy Burnham sticking up for the ordinary people, long may he continue.



Well to anyone who's never heard of him he's coming across as a tit head  

Good to hear that he's actually most likely decent.

If he really is a good person and genuinely has the good of the people at the forefront of his agenda let's hope his moment in front of the cameras gets him where he needs to be he wouldn't be a politician.


FYP

Burnham loves playing to the crowd and the electorate.

He obviously never thinks about strengthening Labour and his position in Manchester when he does it.

Just listened to Dan Jarvis. Much, much more reasonable and measured.

« Last Edit: October 21, 2020, 05:21:50 PM by RickBFA » Logged
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« Reply #3253 on: October 21, 2020, 05:26:35 PM »

"He obviously never thinks about strengthening Labour and his position in Manchester when he does it. "

Do you not think Burnham will win in a landslide in the Manchester mayoral elections next year?

Must be very possible after the last 72 hours, no?


meanwhile whither the Tory Red Wall from last December? Minus quite a few bricks in the next election perhaps....
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« Reply #3254 on: October 21, 2020, 05:37:16 PM »


This seems to be at direct odds with the Michael Yeadon piece on Lockdown Sceptics.

an interesting read, agree or not, about “errors” by Sage —

Error 1: Assuming 100% of the population was susceptible to the virus

Error 2: The belief that the percentage of the population that has been infected can be determined by finding out who has antibodies.



https://lockdownsceptics.org/what-sage-got-wrong/


Who are we supposed to believe? Maybe Doobs or JonMW’s wife could enlighten us.

Michael Yeadon is paid to write for lockdown sceptics and the Spectator.  His stuff seeems hugely biassed.  I hope this is the end of the epidemic, but he has the habit of presenting things as facts which are just conjecture.  He puts out a chart which is "evidence based reality", which is full of massive asumptions.  I don't know why some of these evidence based scientists seem to ignore evidence and be so keen on assumptions?  He says the alternative chart needs to have growth like in March for Sage to be correct when it is clear that most of us are not behaving like we did back in March, treatments are better, hospitals are better prepared and so on.  So it is absolutely clear that the growth rate really should be lower now than in March.   He says that John Ioannidis as the one person who is pre-eminant in the field, when there are literally thousands of people who are equally worthy and nobody knows everything on the topic (particularly as there are still many unknowns).   I could go on.

I don't like his attitude to Sage either, it is clear there are differing voices within Sage, but he misrepresents them a all believing one thing (and that is the straw man Yeadon heas created) and then he just personally attacks them.  

There is some good news in the recent UK statistics, though deaths have hit over 200 a day, there has been a significant slowdown in the case growth rate over the last week or so.  We can argue the toss whether this is Government intervention, people changing habits or the end of the epidemic.  I hope we can level off the cases and deaths from here.  


Thanks Doobs.
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