Vagueness and the Aftermath - A sporadic diary

[AndrewT]

I would like to add that integration goes hand in hand with assimilation, and that's what I think we're afraid of.

I spent about 3 paragraphs trying to say this - this is exactly what I was trying to say.

It's ok honey.  When you grow up, you'll be as smart as Tom.  Just need another few years under your belt.

That is true. Despite all the green numbers I still have less under my belt than Tom.

[gatso]

 
We take them out of mainstream education at an age when we know that they are are most susceptible to peer pressure to experiment with in things like binge-drinking, drug use and under age sex.

difficult to make this comment without sounding like I'm trying to be funny but I would hate to have gone through my teen years without any of these things. don't think any of them have done me any harm

Literacy has always been something to be proud of, regardless of gender. "Look Sam, our Tom can read"

I find this quite sad. a basic life skill should not be considered extraordinary/a luxury imo

[RED-DOG]

Andrew says

You can't really just lick the icing off a cake - you either have to eat the icing and the marzipan together or have no cake at all.

I'm having a bloody good go at it Andrew.

The cake of life has an enormous amount of icing, but sometimes it's hidden beneath some other not quite so palatable topping.

You just have to keep your eyes open, and don't be afraid to lick your fingers.

 

[AndrewT]

Now we know where the red numbers come from - it's all that icing!

[RED-DOG]

 
We take them out of mainstream education at an age when we know that they are are most susceptible to peer pressure to experiment with in things like binge-drinking, drug use and under age sex.

difficult to make this comment without sounding like I'm trying to be funny but I would hate to have gone through my teen years without any of these things. don't think any of them have done me any harm

Literacy has always been something to be proud of, regardless of gender. "Look Sam, our Tom can read"

I find this quite sad. a basic life skill should not be considered extraordinary/a luxury imo

Also without trying to be funny.

Gypsies have many life skills that we consider basic that others would consider a luxury.

[AndrewT]

Gypsies have many life skills that we consider basic that others would consider a luxury.

One thing that I did notice is that the Gypsies/Travellers in BFGW, and particularly the teenagers, seemed to have much better social skills than certainly I did as a teenager - much happier to talk to random people, interact with each other, more outgoing. Obviously growing up in a caravan there's no sitting in your room all day on your own becoming introspective nerds who then spend the rest of their lives posting on internet forums - you're forced to live social lives because of circumstance.

I was actually quite jealous of that aspect of Gypsy life.

[gatso]

Also without trying to be funny.

Gypsies have many life skills that we consider basic that others would consider a luxury.

yes you do. but why not add one more, one that will be used daily and can only enrich your lives?

[RED-DOG]

I don't think anyone said we wouldn't want to.

[kinboshi]

Ding says

However no one seems to criticise parents sending their children to a Jewish school for example, to allow them to be raised within a Jewish environment as much as possible so I guess the Romany eduation is the same in theory, just not always in the classroom?

I just love this comment. I wish I had made it.

I have a MASSIVE problem with faith schools.  They're divisive, they label and separate children of different 'religion' into groups that causes hostility, emphasises differences but don't promote cross-cultural understanding.  Faith is perfectly fine, but there is no logical reason for faith to be brought into education unless some of the points I mentioned are actually the goals.  There is also the issue that some faith schools get better funding, or offer a higher standard of education but only to a specific section of society - which is discriminatory on grounds of religion obviously.

All imo of course.

[david3103]

Ding says

However no one seems to criticise parents sending their children to a Jewish school for example, to allow them to be raised within a Jewish environment as much as possible so I guess the Romany eduation is the same in theory, just not always in the classroom?

I just love this comment. I wish I had made it.

I have a MASSIVE problem with faith schools.  They're divisive, they label and separate children of different 'religion' into groups that causes hostility, emphasises differences but don't promote cross-cultural understanding.  Faith is perfectly fine, but there is no logical reason for faith to be brought into education unless some of the points I mentioned are actually the goals.  There is also the issue that some faith schools get better funding, or offer a higher standard of education but only to a specific section of society - which is discriminatory on grounds of religion obviously.

All imo of course.

Correct me if I'm wrong (and no doubt I am and you will) but surely if it hadn't been for faith schools then there wouldn't have been schools at all?

[boldie]

Ding says

However no one seems to criticise parents sending their children to a Jewish school for example, to allow them to be raised within a Jewish environment as much as possible so I guess the Romany eduation is the same in theory, just not always in the classroom?

I just love this comment. I wish I had made it.

I have a MASSIVE problem with faith schools.  They're divisive, they label and separate children of different 'religion' into groups that causes hostility, emphasises differences but don't promote cross-cultural understanding.  Faith is perfectly fine, but there is no logical reason for faith to be brought into education unless some of the points I mentioned are actually the goals.  There is also the issue that some faith schools get better funding, or offer a higher standard of education but only to a specific section of society - which is discriminatory on grounds of religion obviously.

All imo of course.

Correct me if I'm wrong (and no doubt I am and you will) but surely if it hadn't been for faith schools then there wouldn't have been schools at all?

If it wasn't for the slave trade there wouldn't be any black people in America, doesn't mean it's still a good idea though.

edit; just to clarify I was being just a tad facetious

[david3103]

Ding says

However no one seems to criticise parents sending their children to a Jewish school for example, to allow them to be raised within a Jewish environment as much as possible so I guess the Romany eduation is the same in theory, just not always in the classroom?

I just love this comment. I wish I had made it.

I have a MASSIVE problem with faith schools.  They're divisive, they label and separate children of different 'religion' into groups that causes hostility, emphasises differences but don't promote cross-cultural understanding.  Faith is perfectly fine, but there is no logical reason for faith to be brought into education unless some of the points I mentioned are actually the goals.  There is also the issue that some faith schools get better funding, or offer a higher standard of education but only to a specific section of society - which is discriminatory on grounds of religion obviously.

All imo of course.

Correct me if I'm wrong (and no doubt I am and you will) but surely if it hadn't been for faith schools then there wouldn't have been schools at all?

If it wasn't for the slave trade there wouldn't be any black people in America, doesn't mean it's still a good idea though.

edit; just to clarify I was being just a tad facetious

clarification noted - but the comparison isn't valid. The slave trade was about exploitation, the development of schools was altruistic.

[boldie]

Ding says

However no one seems to criticise parents sending their children to a Jewish school for example, to allow them to be raised within a Jewish environment as much as possible so I guess the Romany eduation is the same in theory, just not always in the classroom?

I just love this comment. I wish I had made it.

I have a MASSIVE problem with faith schools.  They're divisive, they label and separate children of different 'religion' into groups that causes hostility, emphasises differences but don't promote cross-cultural understanding.  Faith is perfectly fine, but there is no logical reason for faith to be brought into education unless some of the points I mentioned are actually the goals.  There is also the issue that some faith schools get better funding, or offer a higher standard of education but only to a specific section of society - which is discriminatory on grounds of religion obviously.

All imo of course.

Correct me if I'm wrong (and no doubt I am and you will) but surely if it hadn't been for faith schools then there wouldn't have been schools at all?

If it wasn't for the slave trade there wouldn't be any black people in America, doesn't mean it's still a good idea though.

edit; just to clarify I was being just a tad facetious

clarification noted - but the comparison isn't valid. The slave trade was about exploitation, the development of schools was altruistic.

Not sure about that last part TBH. the beginning of education is not an area of history that I'm intimately familiar with but it seems more likely to me that it was about ensuring people follow the right rules and general indoctrination than an altruistic "everybody should have the right to learn" idea.

Interesting thought though..will have to look into it. Food for thought and all that.

[AndrewT]

Which faith invented schools, then?

[boldie]

Which faith invented schools, then?

Jebus was the first teacher, I know that.

Judas was just a substitute.