Squeeze play

[Royal Flush]

Just to change the debate a little, what would everyone do with 33 here in exactly the same scenario, except you're:

1.  UTG
2.  In middle position

UTG. Bin.

Middle (unopened) - shove.

Not one person has mentioned "position" in this Thread. Well, just the one.......

Well given that we are pushing it all in pre position matters not given we are hardly going to be outplayed post flop?!?!

As a curiosity, would you care to explain your criteria for "far more knowledgeable"?

People who have studied the game for the last few years, who have tried a variety of different styles, who have moved through all the levels of the game and seen the game change dramaticly but have adjusted to continue wining and lets say have played at least half a million hands.

[NoflopsHomer]

Just to change the debate a little, what would everyone do with 33 here in exactly the same scenario, except you're:

1.  UTG
2.  In middle position

UTG. Bin.

Middle (unopened) - shove.

Not one person has mentioned "position" in this Thread. Well, just the one.......

Seriously. What The Fuck?

YOu want to shove unopened from MP to get through 4 ppl + but when there is two limpers from LP (dead money 90% of the time), you want to pass. Position is irrelavant,you arent playing flops ffs.

I'm not that tough to beat, even OOP!

[noble1]

have to agree with TK there,sound logic if you think about it....If you shove any small pair when 2 big stacks are in already and you have no reads is it sound advice to tell someone to shove them in every time when you have 12bb, i'd thought that it was dependent on reads [if limpers are weak etc etc] with 12bb no antes.
Survival is a rarely used concept online because a lot of players are playing 4 to 8 mtts at the same time sometimes and in my opinion certain players take the volume/maths things to far in online mtts to justify there plays.

it is hard to justify it as +ev as we do not have cash positions or how many players are left..

[Royal Flush]

To Kin, UTG no antes its close for me i probs jam but a lot of things can put me off, from Mid easy jam.

From the SB with an overlayed pot and no-one showing any aggression even from LP then wonderful spot to shove.

[MANTIS01]

Position isn't impotant when you push is it? Much less important than the situation anyway. If the position is so bad then calling and playing a pot from here with a short-stack is just throwing money away. You may not get pressured Tikay, which is again a skill, but the limpers might. You have the stack to do that now, but if you keep dribbling money away on long shots oop you soon wont.

[NoflopsHomer]

I think I'm shoving anything down to 5-4 suited here.

[noble1]

should we take into account the buy in level here ?? because if we shove to steal , 1.4 to 1 odds for a low buy in opponent even though it represents 33% ish of there stack is an easy call for them also there limp range can be pretty bizarre at times..

[Royal Flush]

should we take into account the buy in level here ?? because if we shove to steal , 1.4 to 1 odds for a low buy in opponent even though it represents 33% ish of there stack is an easy call for them also there limp range can be pretty bizarre at times..

A consideration if we had J3s but given we have a pair a call is not that bad anyway.

[MANTIS01]

I wouldn't shove to steal. I would shove because I think I have the best hand. A hand that doesn't play well post-flop, oop, with a short stack. Getting a call from 2-2 or A-3 would be nice.

[Longy]

Just to change the debate a little, what would everyone do with 33 here in exactly the same scenario, except you're:

1.  UTG
2.  In middle position

Shoving ranges mathematically don't change that much from utg to mp interestingly.

After a muck about with sngwiz using cEV as an equity model.

Utg looks about -.5% shove
MP is about neutral equity.

[kinboshi]

To Kin, UTG no antes its close for me i probs jam but a lot of things can put me off, from Mid easy jam.

From the SB with an overlayed pot and no-one showing any aggression even from LP then wonderful spot to shove.

OK - I was thinking along similar lines.  I shoved in a tourney not so long ago when fairly short from UTG with 33.  I was thinking afterwards that maybe I should have waited for a better position (i.e. I don't have to get through a whole table hoping they don't have a huge hand and so I'm in big trouble).

[AlexMartin]

I wouldn't shove to steal. I would shove because I think I have the best hand. A hand that doesn't play well post-flop, oop, with a short stack. Getting a call from 2-2 or A-3 would be nice.

yeah. infact id rather get the call and have a workable stack than operate with this flatliner.

as an aside, at what BB level do ppl think flatting>shoving? 17bb+?

[action man]

read op and just need to shout shove

[MANTIS01]

The UTG opener has got like half the average stack himself and it's the last hand of the night and he's just opened for more than 10% of his stack. The guy doesn't need to be an idiot to call, he just needs to say feck it let's try and spin up a stack for day 2, and people do that in every live tournament. Easy to do after 10 hours of poker when the pot is massive. Easier than stacking when you miss anyway.

[MANTIS01]

feck it wrong thread