Reasons why I ask is it worth it?

[DaveShoelace]

I know a lot of people from all different walks of life, and sometimes I get a lot of disrespect for being a poker player, but I never dispespect anyones lifestyle and I think that's important, poker players might haves much different attitude to money, but they might not value itless, bankers in London buying chapagne for lunch what's wrong with that?

On the why don't youget a job instead of borrowing money comment, gotta say that's pretty narrow minded...put urself ina situation whereyouhavea 5 figure financial commitment and ur whole br is gone if you pay it? If that was a bossiness what would you say "oh well declare urself bust and get a job at tesco" or do anything you can to sort it. The trick to stay in control. I never borrowed money specifically to gamble with and the accusation a bit disrespectful

First of all, I cant speak for everyone else on this thread but when Ive been referring to poker players having no respect for money, by and large I am talking about the degens, the bad apples, the grimmers etc. Most pro players are pro players because they worked hard at their game and that should not be taken away from them.

However I'm not sure I buy the business going bust argument, simply because there isnt much excuse for a professional poker player going bust. Not because 'it means they were crap at poker', simply because there is a really simple concept in poker, one that is perhaps the single most important yet the most missused and ignored, known as bankroll management.

A truly professional poker player should always be playing within their own limits at all times imo, the reason all these degen/spinup/grimming stories occur as a lot down to the fact that at some point the player stopped employing correct bankroll management. They got a taste for the big games and let their ego take control when the variance hit them hard and they were not professional enough to step down a stake or two. Thats why I cant understand why anyone would want to back a known degen/grimmer, someone who has proven they cant run their own business.

I'm probably coming across as a right grumpy killjoy here and very anti staking/taking shots, but to reiterate, I am mainly talking about the degens who grim people and stuff when things turn sour. I've been fortunate enough to meet plenty of very professional, respectful and courteous pro players in my time.

You're so in your 30s now Barry

But I agree (as a fellow 30-something).  Being a good poker player is more than your skill at the table.  It's that combined with table selection, managing tilt, and probably a list of other things.  I'm sure there are loads of very respectable and decent young poker players who are 'crushing' the game, and yet they aren't in the limelight.  Maybe a lot of the ones who seek the fame/notoriety are the ones who live and aspire to the 'balla' life-style?  That's why we're more aware of them?

Yep, in my 30s and a right miserable chuff (love it too).

We all know highly talented, 'tv' type pros who dont have 2 pennies to rub together. I'm pretty certain there will be plenty of recreational players who think Sammy George is a big time pro. Cos Im a poker journo I've interviewed most of the big 'names' and after a while with a few exceptions they have bored the crap out of me. People think they are minted but most of them are cash rich but have very little else to show than whats in their wallet.

I always wonder who is the better player, someone with bags of talent but has gone bust because they cant manage money and owe it left right and centre, or my mother, who plays $1 SNGs and is in profit to the tune of about $26. Obv the talented degen but its an interesting debate.

The guys I really admire are people like Thewy, Clarkatroid, Leatherass, Stuart Rutter, Andy Ward etc - guys who seem to adopt a 9-5 type professional approach to their game. Another player I really find fascinating and were it not for our intense eastside/westside rap rivalry would sing his praises more is little old James Atkin, someone who I think is really professional, particularly since he became a Dad, and has managed to stick to a professional bankroll management system despite having once played some really sicko limits.

Agree with all those names except Leatherass.

Horrible man.

He's actually a mate of mine but I know rubs a lot of people up the wrong way, whats your particular reason for disliking him? (Im not gonna defend btw, just wondering)

[The Camel]

I know a lot of people from all different walks of life, and sometimes I get a lot of disrespect for being a poker player, but I never dispespect anyones lifestyle and I think that's important, poker players might haves much different attitude to money, but they might not value itless, bankers in London buying chapagne for lunch what's wrong with that?

On the why don't youget a job instead of borrowing money comment, gotta say that's pretty narrow minded...put urself ina situation whereyouhavea 5 figure financial commitment and ur whole br is gone if you pay it? If that was a bossiness what would you say "oh well declare urself bust and get a job at tesco" or do anything you can to sort it. The trick to stay in control. I never borrowed money specifically to gamble with and the accusation a bit disrespectful

First of all, I cant speak for everyone else on this thread but when Ive been referring to poker players having no respect for money, by and large I am talking about the degens, the bad apples, the grimmers etc. Most pro players are pro players because they worked hard at their game and that should not be taken away from them.

However I'm not sure I buy the business going bust argument, simply because there isnt much excuse for a professional poker player going bust. Not because 'it means they were crap at poker', simply because there is a really simple concept in poker, one that is perhaps the single most important yet the most missused and ignored, known as bankroll management.

A truly professional poker player should always be playing within their own limits at all times imo, the reason all these degen/spinup/grimming stories occur as a lot down to the fact that at some point the player stopped employing correct bankroll management. They got a taste for the big games and let their ego take control when the variance hit them hard and they were not professional enough to step down a stake or two. Thats why I cant understand why anyone would want to back a known degen/grimmer, someone who has proven they cant run their own business.

I'm probably coming across as a right grumpy killjoy here and very anti staking/taking shots, but to reiterate, I am mainly talking about the degens who grim people and stuff when things turn sour. I've been fortunate enough to meet plenty of very professional, respectful and courteous pro players in my time.

You're so in your 30s now Barry

But I agree (as a fellow 30-something).  Being a good poker player is more than your skill at the table.  It's that combined with table selection, managing tilt, and probably a list of other things.  I'm sure there are loads of very respectable and decent young poker players who are 'crushing' the game, and yet they aren't in the limelight.  Maybe a lot of the ones who seek the fame/notoriety are the ones who live and aspire to the 'balla' life-style?  That's why we're more aware of them?

Yep, in my 30s and a right miserable chuff (love it too).

We all know highly talented, 'tv' type pros who dont have 2 pennies to rub together. I'm pretty certain there will be plenty of recreational players who think Sammy George is a big time pro. Cos Im a poker journo I've interviewed most of the big 'names' and after a while with a few exceptions they have bored the crap out of me. People think they are minted but most of them are cash rich but have very little else to show than whats in their wallet.

I always wonder who is the better player, someone with bags of talent but has gone bust because they cant manage money and owe it left right and centre, or my mother, who plays $1 SNGs and is in profit to the tune of about $26. Obv the talented degen but its an interesting debate.

The guys I really admire are people like Thewy, Clarkatroid, Leatherass, Stuart Rutter, Andy Ward etc - guys who seem to adopt a 9-5 type professional approach to their game. Another player I really find fascinating and were it not for our intense eastside/westside rap rivalry would sing his praises more is little old James Atkin, someone who I think is really professional, particularly since he became a Dad, and has managed to stick to a professional bankroll management system despite having once played some really sicko limits.

Agree with all those names except Leatherass.

Horrible man.

He's actually a mate of mine but I know rubs a lot of people up the wrong way, whats your particular reason for disliking him? (Im not gonna defend btw, just wondering)

Egotisical to the extreme, rude and self centred.

Typical successful American I guess.

[DaveShoelace]

I know a lot of people from all different walks of life, and sometimes I get a lot of disrespect for being a poker player, but I never dispespect anyones lifestyle and I think that's important, poker players might haves much different attitude to money, but they might not value itless, bankers in London buying chapagne for lunch what's wrong with that?

On the why don't youget a job instead of borrowing money comment, gotta say that's pretty narrow minded...put urself ina situation whereyouhavea 5 figure financial commitment and ur whole br is gone if you pay it? If that was a bossiness what would you say "oh well declare urself bust and get a job at tesco" or do anything you can to sort it. The trick to stay in control. I never borrowed money specifically to gamble with and the accusation a bit disrespectful

First of all, I cant speak for everyone else on this thread but when Ive been referring to poker players having no respect for money, by and large I am talking about the degens, the bad apples, the grimmers etc. Most pro players are pro players because they worked hard at their game and that should not be taken away from them.

However I'm not sure I buy the business going bust argument, simply because there isnt much excuse for a professional poker player going bust. Not because 'it means they were crap at poker', simply because there is a really simple concept in poker, one that is perhaps the single most important yet the most missused and ignored, known as bankroll management.

A truly professional poker player should always be playing within their own limits at all times imo, the reason all these degen/spinup/grimming stories occur as a lot down to the fact that at some point the player stopped employing correct bankroll management. They got a taste for the big games and let their ego take control when the variance hit them hard and they were not professional enough to step down a stake or two. Thats why I cant understand why anyone would want to back a known degen/grimmer, someone who has proven they cant run their own business.

I'm probably coming across as a right grumpy killjoy here and very anti staking/taking shots, but to reiterate, I am mainly talking about the degens who grim people and stuff when things turn sour. I've been fortunate enough to meet plenty of very professional, respectful and courteous pro players in my time.

You're so in your 30s now Barry

But I agree (as a fellow 30-something).  Being a good poker player is more than your skill at the table.  It's that combined with table selection, managing tilt, and probably a list of other things.  I'm sure there are loads of very respectable and decent young poker players who are 'crushing' the game, and yet they aren't in the limelight.  Maybe a lot of the ones who seek the fame/notoriety are the ones who live and aspire to the 'balla' life-style?  That's why we're more aware of them?

Yep, in my 30s and a right miserable chuff (love it too).

We all know highly talented, 'tv' type pros who dont have 2 pennies to rub together. I'm pretty certain there will be plenty of recreational players who think Sammy George is a big time pro. Cos Im a poker journo I've interviewed most of the big 'names' and after a while with a few exceptions they have bored the crap out of me. People think they are minted but most of them are cash rich but have very little else to show than whats in their wallet.

I always wonder who is the better player, someone with bags of talent but has gone bust because they cant manage money and owe it left right and centre, or my mother, who plays $1 SNGs and is in profit to the tune of about $26. Obv the talented degen but its an interesting debate.

The guys I really admire are people like Thewy, Clarkatroid, Leatherass, Stuart Rutter, Andy Ward etc - guys who seem to adopt a 9-5 type professional approach to their game. Another player I really find fascinating and were it not for our intense eastside/westside rap rivalry would sing his praises more is little old James Atkin, someone who I think is really professional, particularly since he became a Dad, and has managed to stick to a professional bankroll management system despite having once played some really sicko limits.

Agree with all those names except Leatherass.

Horrible man.

He's actually a mate of mine but I know rubs a lot of people up the wrong way, whats your particular reason for disliking him? (Im not gonna defend btw, just wondering)

Egotisical to the extreme, rude and self centred.

Typical successful American I guess.

Thats what lots of people seem to think, I personally am yet to see why. Ive only known him a year and was expecting a real dick when I met him, but he is actually a really friendly, unassuming, quite dopey fella. He is a big self promoter, which is one of the reasons I find him interesting because he is treats everything like business where it comes to poker, but thats also probably why plenty dont like him.

Anyhoo he cant be perfect otherwise he wouldn't have so many detractors, but that's for a different debate anyway.

As an aside, Dreenie has started to stonkers of threads in her short time here.

[The Camel]

I know a lot of people from all different walks of life, and sometimes I get a lot of disrespect for being a poker player, but I never dispespect anyones lifestyle and I think that's important, poker players might haves much different attitude to money, but they might not value itless, bankers in London buying chapagne for lunch what's wrong with that?

On the why don't youget a job instead of borrowing money comment, gotta say that's pretty narrow minded...put urself ina situation whereyouhavea 5 figure financial commitment and ur whole br is gone if you pay it? If that was a bossiness what would you say "oh well declare urself bust and get a job at tesco" or do anything you can to sort it. The trick to stay in control. I never borrowed money specifically to gamble with and the accusation a bit disrespectful

First of all, I cant speak for everyone else on this thread but when Ive been referring to poker players having no respect for money, by and large I am talking about the degens, the bad apples, the grimmers etc. Most pro players are pro players because they worked hard at their game and that should not be taken away from them.

However I'm not sure I buy the business going bust argument, simply because there isnt much excuse for a professional poker player going bust. Not because 'it means they were crap at poker', simply because there is a really simple concept in poker, one that is perhaps the single most important yet the most missused and ignored, known as bankroll management.

A truly professional poker player should always be playing within their own limits at all times imo, the reason all these degen/spinup/grimming stories occur as a lot down to the fact that at some point the player stopped employing correct bankroll management. They got a taste for the big games and let their ego take control when the variance hit them hard and they were not professional enough to step down a stake or two. Thats why I cant understand why anyone would want to back a known degen/grimmer, someone who has proven they cant run their own business.

I'm probably coming across as a right grumpy killjoy here and very anti staking/taking shots, but to reiterate, I am mainly talking about the degens who grim people and stuff when things turn sour. I've been fortunate enough to meet plenty of very professional, respectful and courteous pro players in my time.

You're so in your 30s now Barry

But I agree (as a fellow 30-something).  Being a good poker player is more than your skill at the table.  It's that combined with table selection, managing tilt, and probably a list of other things.  I'm sure there are loads of very respectable and decent young poker players who are 'crushing' the game, and yet they aren't in the limelight.  Maybe a lot of the ones who seek the fame/notoriety are the ones who live and aspire to the 'balla' life-style?  That's why we're more aware of them?

Yep, in my 30s and a right miserable chuff (love it too).

We all know highly talented, 'tv' type pros who dont have 2 pennies to rub together. I'm pretty certain there will be plenty of recreational players who think Sammy George is a big time pro. Cos Im a poker journo I've interviewed most of the big 'names' and after a while with a few exceptions they have bored the crap out of me. People think they are minted but most of them are cash rich but have very little else to show than whats in their wallet.

I always wonder who is the better player, someone with bags of talent but has gone bust because they cant manage money and owe it left right and centre, or my mother, who plays $1 SNGs and is in profit to the tune of about $26. Obv the talented degen but its an interesting debate.

The guys I really admire are people like Thewy, Clarkatroid, Leatherass, Stuart Rutter, Andy Ward etc - guys who seem to adopt a 9-5 type professional approach to their game. Another player I really find fascinating and were it not for our intense eastside/westside rap rivalry would sing his praises more is little old James Atkin, someone who I think is really professional, particularly since he became a Dad, and has managed to stick to a professional bankroll management system despite having once played some really sicko limits.

Agree with all those names except Leatherass.

Horrible man.

He's actually a mate of mine but I know rubs a lot of people up the wrong way, whats your particular reason for disliking him? (Im not gonna defend btw, just wondering)

Egotisical to the extreme, rude and self centred.

Typical successful American I guess.

Thats what lots of people seem to think, I personally am yet to see why. Ive only known him a year and was expecting a real dick when I met him, but he is actually a really friendly, unassuming, quite dopey fella. He is a big self promoter, which is one of the reasons I find him interesting because he is treats everything like business where it comes to poker.

Anyhoo he cant be perfect otherwise he wouldn't have so many detractors, but that's for a different debate anyway.

As an aside, Dreenie has started to stonkers of threads in her short time here.

I cannot bear self promotors.

[ForthThistle]

This Thread is Awesome and from the heart..

Great read..
Keep it up guys.

[action man]

people "ball" about in order to validate their existence to others. Most internet pro's friends and relatives will probably think they are a dead beat degen, so once in a while its nice to go out with a wad of bullys to show them your not a down and out.

These days theres two different types of internet pro i know of, old school and new shool.

old school are people who have come from the gambling scene, myself, dubai, marc, penly, camel, channing,the green machine, rooks. VS the university educated academicaly gifted new school who dont punt on the horses and are way way better with there BRM than the old skool. New school are like jake, sykes, bramm, the rutters, eames.

[LeKnave]

old school are people who have come from the gambling scene, myself, dubai, marc, penly, camel, channing,the green machine, rooks. VS the university educated academicaly gifted new school who dont punt on the horses and are way way better with there BRM than the old skool. New school are like jake, sykes, bramm, the rutters, eames.

lololol

[action man]

bramms not a sick degen tho. he actually likes the sport.

[MC]

The guys I really admire are people like Thewy, Clarkatroid, Leatherass, Stuart Rutter, Andy Ward etc - guys who seem to adopt a 9-5 type professional approach to their game. Another player I really find fascinating and were it not for our intense eastside/westside rap rivalry would sing his praises more is little old James Atkin, someone who I think is really professional, particularly since he became a Dad, and has managed to stick to a professional bankroll management system despite having once played some really sicko limits.

Thanks dude. I guess I'm a degen turned professional. At least shows it's possible, even if you have to knock of your missus for it to kick in fully

Round 3 of battle due imo

[vegaslover]

people "ball" about in order to validate their existence to others. Most internet pro's friends and relatives will probably think they are a dead beat degen, so once in a while its nice to go out with a wad of bullys to show them your not a down and out.

Seriously, just makes them look like utter pricks imo

[Royal Flush]

lolz i was in a Corals today and Jake was just blindly punting away...

[BAM]

I think Cos deserves a pay rise.

Not only does he look after and protect every UK poker player, he also finds the time to fight crime on the dirty scummy streets of the internet.

The man is amazing.

Am I the only person to have been grimmed by the greek?

[Laxie]

I think Cos deserves a pay rise.

Not only does he look after and protect every UK poker player, he also finds the time to fight crime on the dirty scummy streets of the internet.

The man is amazing.

Am I the only person to have been grimmed by the greek?

If that's the case, you run worse than he does.

[810ofclubs]

bramms not a sick degen tho. he actually likes the sport.

deffo still a degen, just alot less these days, he wont deny im sure

[marcro]

I know a lot of people from all different walks of life, and sometimes I get a lot of disrespect for being a poker player, but I never dispespect anyones lifestyle and I think that's important, poker players might haves much different attitude to money, but they might not value itless, bankers in London buying chapagne for lunch what's wrong with that?

On the why don't youget a job instead of borrowing money comment, gotta say that's pretty narrow minded...put urself ina situation whereyouhavea 5 figure financial commitment and ur whole br is gone if you pay it? If that was a bossiness what would you say "oh well declare urself bust and get a job at tesco" or do anything you can to sort it. The trick to stay in control. I never borrowed money specifically to gamble with and the accusation a bit disrespectful

First of all, I cant speak for everyone else on this thread but when Ive been referring to poker players having no respect for money, by and large I am talking about the degens, the bad apples, the grimmers etc. Most pro players are pro players because they worked hard at their game and that should not be taken away from them.

However I'm not sure I buy the business going bust argument, simply because there isnt much excuse for a professional poker player going bust. Not because 'it means they were crap at poker', simply because there is a really simple concept in poker, one that is perhaps the single most important yet the most missused and ignored, known as bankroll management.

A truly professional poker player should always be playing within their own limits at all times imo, the reason all these degen/spinup/grimming stories occur as a lot down to the fact that at some point the player stopped employing correct bankroll management. They got a taste for the big games and let their ego take control when the variance hit them hard and they were not professional enough to step down a stake or two. Thats why I cant understand why anyone would want to back a known degen/grimmer, someone who has proven they cant run their own business.

I'm probably coming across as a right grumpy killjoy here and very anti staking/taking shots, but to reiterate, I am mainly talking about the degens who grim people and stuff when things turn sour. I've been fortunate enough to meet plenty of very professional, respectful and courteous pro players in my time.

You're so in your 30s now Barry

But I agree (as a fellow 30-something).  Being a good poker player is more than your skill at the table.  It's that combined with table selection, managing tilt, and probably a list of other things.  I'm sure there are loads of very respectable and decent young poker players who are 'crushing' the game, and yet they aren't in the limelight.  Maybe a lot of the ones who seek the fame/notoriety are the ones who live and aspire to the 'balla' life-style?  That's why we're more aware of them?

Yep, in my 30s and a right miserable chuff (love it too).

We all know highly talented, 'tv' type pros who dont have 2 pennies to rub together. I'm pretty certain there will be plenty of recreational players who think Sammy George is a big time pro. Cos Im a poker journo I've interviewed most of the big 'names' and after a while with a few exceptions they have bored the crap out of me. People think they are minted but most of them are cash rich but have very little else to show than whats in their wallet.

I always wonder who is the better player, someone with bags of talent but has gone bust because they cant manage money and owe it left right and centre, or my mother, who plays $1 SNGs and is in profit to the tune of about $26. Obv the talented degen but its an interesting debate.

The guys I really admire are people like Thewy, Clarkatroid, Leatherass, Stuart Rutter, Andy Ward etc - guys who seem to adopt a 9-5 type professional approach to their game. Another player I really find fascinating and were it not for our intense eastside/westside rap rivalry would sing his praises more is little old James Atkin, someone who I think is really professional, particularly since he became a Dad, and has managed to stick to a professional bankroll management system despite having once played some really sicko limits.

Agree with all those names except Leatherass.

Horrible man.

He's actually a mate of mine but I know rubs a lot of people up the wrong way, whats your particular reason for disliking him? (Im not gonna defend btw, just wondering)

Egotisical to the extreme, rude and self centred.

Typical successful American I guess.

Thats what lots of people seem to think, I personally am yet to see why. Ive only known him a year and was expecting a real dick when I met him, but he is actually a really friendly, unassuming, quite dopey fella. He is a big self promoter, which is one of the reasons I find him interesting because he is treats everything like business where it comes to poker.

Anyhoo he cant be perfect otherwise he wouldn't have so many detractors, but that's for a different debate anyway.

As an aside, Dreenie has started to stonkers of threads in her short time here.

I cannot bear self promotors.

Self promoters are not limited to Americans - you will probably find this trait with successful businessmen in most countries.