Degenerate Diaries: The Chronicles Pt. 2

[cambridgealex]

At the risk of getting flamed here....the problem with such schemes is they offer the greatest reward, in the vast majority of cases, to winning, rather than 'recreational', players.

Whilst said group of players 'facilitate' the game for the casual punter who comes in, they also undeniably 'drain' the liquidity of the player pool. Iin disincentivising winning players DTD may actually expect to increase revenues as recreational liquidity circulates more before any 'withdrawal' is made from the liquidity pool.

What they actually need to do is reward said recreational players. As an example I'm sure you chaps would happily foot the transport/hotel/dinner bill of the Doncaster lads if that's what was needed to get them down for a game....

Sorry Ed I'm going to slightly disagree with a bit of this, from my experience in regular live games the primary thing that drives it is "pro money" people like Mitch/Alex etc, because those are the people who play everyday and will (usually) always have money to with, keeping the games liquid and there presence means that there will always be a game for the casual, recreational player to play in - this in itself is the biggest draw for the recreational player imo, as your average non-pro (and a huge % of pros) really hate to start games.

If DTD offered nothing to the alex's/sean's and mitch's but bent over backward for the donny lads and other random punters then what happens when they go off on on business, have a holiday with there family or do a few grand too much one month and decide to take 3 or so weeks off poker? The games would prolly be extremely poor.

I've played in games with only a small pro player pool before and they ALWAYS, and I mean ALWAYS fizzle out (often they restart again) but there is no longevity to games like this which is what DTD want commercially.

Got to agree with dave on this one. Often if we don't start/organise games, they don't run. Really hope DTD can see this and bring in some sort of incentive scheme.

[stato_1]

Think I agree with Ed on this one. When you guys were in thailand the games were much better on the whole during the week, saw lots of faces on the 1/2 who had been hiding on the .50/1 for quite while, and the fact is... those ppl just dont like to come and sit in a game which when it's starting just has Mitch, Alex etc waiting with piles of chips (this gets even worse once Mitch has been to the cash desk to buy in  )

I agree that without u guys (pretty much Mitch on his own tbh) alot of the one off bigger 2/5 games wouldn't even run, but in terms of the general day to day operation of the club, think you've gotta keep the recreational player happy

[gouty]

I am up here for the ds and am a recreational player ie. I have a non poker job.

I played the sat on fri night and busted but as I wasn't boozing I thought I would just sit in a 50p/£1 game and grind the £110 back and try get me hotel paid for to start the weekend on the right note. I played for 3 hours proper tight and won £165 but paid £42 rake. It's probably impossible to beat long term I would imagine all the regs need looking after with some form of rake back to make it pay.

It's not really dtd or anyone's fault. It's the tax. Labour govt. and the gambling commission fkd it up by incorrectly taxing poker rake along with casino "drop".  So we all need to get on to our MPs and get it sorted.

Less tax means less rake.More tips for dealers means better career in dealing. This means better dealers and more fkn poker.

I am too old and too busy to give a shit but why don't you guys who are just starting your poker careers do something about it?

Nice blog m8. Just had my curry with dave and left you in the company mark with your big mountain of red chips. Hope you kept em.

[SuuPRlim]

Think I agree with Ed on this one. When you guys were in thailand the games were much better on the whole during the week, saw lots of faces on the 1/2 who had been hiding on the .50/1 for quite while, and the fact is... those ppl just dont like to come and sit in a game which when it's starting just has Mitch, Alex etc waiting with piles of chips (this gets even worse once Mitch has been to the cash desk to buy in  )

I agree that without u guys (pretty much Mitch on his own tbh) alot of the one off bigger 2/5 games wouldn't even run, but in terms of the general day to day operation of the club, think you've gotta keep the recreational player happy

Stato, the 50/1 faces you're talking about don't like to start games with alex you and mitch and because of this they don't. They aren't prepared to sacrifice the EV they lose by playing 1/2 6handed with 5 good players to get into a good 1/2 game over sitting in a safe 50/1 game. this is nothing against them it's fair enough but once alex/mitch/you have gotten the great 1/2 game running you can bet your life they'll be on the list for it.

[Skippy]

Lots of other places can manage 5% rake - DTD is the only one in it's local area that still charges 10%. Derby and the two central Nottingham casinos both charge 5%.

DTD used to be able to say that it needed to make poker pay because it's just a cardroom but DTD has pit games too now. One of the reason I play lots of tournaments is that at DTD the tournaments are subsidised by the cash games, and I'd rather be subsidised than doing the subsidising.

[edgascoigne]

At the risk of getting flamed here....the problem with such schemes is they offer the greatest reward, in the vast majority of cases, to winning, rather than 'recreational', players.

Whilst said group of players 'facilitate' the game for the casual punter who comes in, they also undeniably 'drain' the liquidity of the player pool. Iin disincentivising winning players DTD may actually expect to increase revenues as recreational liquidity circulates more before any 'withdrawal' is made from the liquidity pool.

What they actually need to do is reward said recreational players. As an example I'm sure you chaps would happily foot the transport/hotel/dinner bill of the Doncaster lads if that's what was needed to get them down for a game....

Sorry Ed I'm going to slightly disagree with a bit of this, from my experience in regular live games the primary thing that drives it is "pro money" people like Mitch/Alex etc, because those are the people who play everyday and will (usually) always have money to with, keeping the games liquid and there presence means that there will always be a game for the casual, recreational player to play in - this in itself is the biggest draw for the recreational player imo, as your average non-pro (and a huge % of pros) really hate to start games.

If DTD offered nothing to the alex's/sean's and mitch's but bent over backward for the donny lads and other random punters then what happens when they go off on on business, have a holiday with there family or do a few grand too much one month and decide to take 3 or so weeks off poker? The games would prolly be extremely poor.

I've played in games with only a small pro player pool before and they ALWAYS, and I mean ALWAYS fizzle out (often they restart again) but there is no longevity to games like this which is what DTD want commercially.

Got to agree with dave on this one. Often if we don't start/organise games, they don't run. Really hope DTD can see this and bring in some sort of incentive scheme.

I essentially play very rarely, am 'recreational', and, as you say, the availability of a game is hugely important to people like me. I'm not denying the importance of the regs who facilitate the game that ultimately drives the revenues for the club, not for a second.

The difficult balance for the club however is that essentially their revenues = money brought to the club - money taken away from the club. One of these is driven by recreational players, the other defined by the presence of winners...so they have to keep the (winning) regs present to facilitate the games running, whilst attempting to minimise the second part of the equation.

I'm not specifically qualified to pass comment on poker clubs to be honest but a chunk of my background comes from a betting exchange, where I know one of their most significant tightropes is how to proceed with their largest winners. Without some of them there are no markets in certain (normally niche) areas. With them the recreational punter does his dough quicker than he might otherwise and the money doesn't churn sufficiently to drive a decent yield from the liquidity that is brought to the site (which has high marketing, retention and operational costs).

I think the catch 22 is a similar, if far from identical one, in poker clubs.

I by no means have a definitive answer...but I'll be very interested to see what DTD are planning.

[zerofive]

Don't know what's happening to the 1/2 games recently. I know they've always been deep, but now they're getting ridiculously deep. Like italicised deep. Three players to my left playing out of a £5k stack on sunday. Never locked up so hard in my life. I wish I could find a little bit more gamble in me sometimes, but alas on the night I couldn't spread the wings. So I played like a nit and a bad one at that.

Going in just to spa tonight ahead of the 770 tomorrow, which I'm actually looking forward to! In the meantime SPORCLE

[smashedagain]

Hey Sean, Rob has stated that the cash game bonus was a complete failure and failed to generate any increase in cash game play at all. I know you raked monte Carlo and deepstack seats so will the termination of the promotion affect many of the players like yourself?

[Rivertony]

Hey Sean, Rob has stated that the cash game bonus was a complete failure and failed to generate any increase in cash game play at all. I know you raked monte Carlo and deepstack seats so will the termination of the promotion affect many of the players like yourself?

It will 100% have an effect on the numbers, I know PJ grinding his tits off for a month solid for his MC seat and now the bonuses have been cancelled he doesn't see the point!! Others will see it the same

[cambridgealex]

It's hard to see how the bonus didn't affect the numbers, it encouraged LOADS of people I know of to play more. Real shame to see it go

[giveyourcash]

Here's my idea, a leader board style rake race where you get points per hour equal to the value of the big blind at your table. This would mean a limited exposure for the club and would give players something to chase for. Maybe a monte for 1st a500 seat for 2-5 a 150 for 6-10 and maybe a 50 seat for 11-20. That way dtd knows the exact amount no surprise months where 10 get a monte seat and players racing for the top prize may do more than the equivalent of 150 points.

[cambridgealex]

Here's my idea, a leader board style rake race where you get points per hour equal to the value of the big blind at your table. This would mean a limited exposure for the club and would give players something to chase for. Maybe a monte for 1st a500 seat for 2-5 a 150 for 6-10 and maybe a 50 seat for 11-20. That way dtd knows the exact amount no surprise months where 10 get a monte seat and players racing for the top prize may do more than the equivalent of 150 points.

How strange that your idea is one where you're a lock to get a monte seat every month!?

[giveyourcash]

In fairness its a somewhat selfish idea too.

[giveyourcash]

Haha I'm  20 seconds too slow. That said Sean and pj beat me last month by a pretty significant amount.

[zerofive]

[  ] Made day 2.

Sorry to backers. Don't ever let me play another tournament again in my life please. Trip report when I'm not incredibly depressed from poker. Could be a week or so.