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Author Topic: Post bust-out handshakes  (Read 17701 times)
Chompy
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« Reply #75 on: August 21, 2012, 10:14:37 AM »

"Nice to meet you. It has been a pleasure."

It's all personal opinion, I suppose.

People these days are, for the most part, seem far less respectful of one another than is seen in previous generations. I certainly don't agree that it has gone the other way. Certainly my generation, on the whole, is something to despair of.

It's the same, as far as I am concerned, as when I play five a side croquet. Even if I've just trounced the opposing team, we still shake hands at the end. It's nothing more or less than common courtesy and good sportsmanship.

It's ridiculous that people construe it as insulting. Sure, someone might be exulted and excited when they win. Ever seen a Tennis grandslam final? They still shake hands once the euphoric celebration has transpired. Why? Mostly because most other sportsmen aren't so determined to find insult in everything.

That's the problem with poker, though. It's incredibly unwelcoming, on the whole.

FYP.

Shouldn't reject a handshake ever imo but I did it a few weeks ago. Squarehead knocked me out in two hands and reached out. I insta-brushed by in the heat of the moment. Happens.

Had the guy that knocked me out of my only WSOP event this summer chase me halfway down the strip to shake. What is that all about?
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« Reply #76 on: August 21, 2012, 10:15:13 AM »

Don't agree the distinction is between pros and hobbyists. Some of the friendliest people at a table are hand-to-mouth pros and some of the worst etiquette see-you-next-tuesdays are once a week recreational players who are "due a win any second now".

The distinction is how people react after losing. Everything but rudeness is fine socially and, for example, I have no issue with The Camel saying he just wants to get outta Dodge pronto (not in those words, granted!). I wouldn't offer my hand to him but not because I think he's being childish or because I want to aggravate him further; because I recognise that it's not what he wants and I'm OK with that.

And that's what I think a gentleman does.
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tikay
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« Reply #77 on: August 21, 2012, 10:15:27 AM »

"Nice to meet you. It has been a pleasure."

It's all personal opinion, I suppose.

People these days are, for the most part, seem far less respectful of one another than is seen in previous generations. I certainly don't agree that it has gone the other way. Certainly my generation, on the whole, is something to despair of.

It's the same, as far as I am concerned, as when I play five a side croquet[/i]. Even if I've just trounced the opposing team, we still shake hands at the end. It's nothing more or less than common courtesy and good sportsmanship.

It's ridiculous that people construe it as insulting. Sure, someone might be exulted and excited when they win. Ever seen a Tennis grandslam final? They still shake hands once the euphoric celebration has transpired. Why? Mostly because most other sportsmen aren't so determined to find insult in everything.

That's the problem with poker, though. It's incredibly unwelcoming, on the whole.

FYP.

Shouldn't reject a handshake ever imo but I did it a few weeks ago. Squarehead knocked me out in two hands and reached out. I insta-brushed by in the heat of the moment. Happens.

Had the guy that knocked me out of my only WSOP event this summer chase me halfway down the strip to shake. What is that all about?

I meant it sincerely.
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AlunB
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« Reply #78 on: August 21, 2012, 10:15:39 AM »

Context is so important too. A handshake can also be a form of congratulation. You shake someone's hand to say well done.

So if a guy punches the air when he sucks out on you then turns around with a huge grin to offer you a handshake is it not really a subconscious way of getting you to congratulate him? Those are the only times I would and have refused in the past.
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AlunB
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« Reply #79 on: August 21, 2012, 10:19:18 AM »

Surely the difference in opinion here comes from people who play poker primarily for fun and those who play primarily for a living?

In the former context I think people who refuse to shake hands are in the wrong, and in the latter those who insist on it are in the wrong.

As to the 'sorry' debate, I totally disagree that it's always false. I've made some horrific calls and sucked out on someone and said 'sorry about that mate' and truly meant it. I made a mistake and got lucky. I've been in that other guy's shoes and know how shitty it feels. I'm glad I'm still in the tournament, but I do have some human empathy and am able to feel simultaneously bad for someone else and pleased for myself.

But do you not see how you saying "sorry" just rubs it in and makes it worse?

If you really feel empathy you'll shut up and get on with the next hand.

That's a pretty huge assumption there that everyone is the same as you. I know that personally if someone says it sincerely to me it makes me feel a tiny bit better. I certainly prefer it to someone ignoring me and stacking their chips.

Different people are different. But point taken. And I'd like to think I have reasonable judgement so that I would know when to say something and when to shut up. It's part of my job.

That said more often than not I would err on the side of saying a few words. But no I wouldn't always say anything. If a guy's obviously steaming I will generally stay out of his way.
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« Reply #80 on: August 21, 2012, 10:20:59 AM »

Surely the difference in opinion here comes from people who play poker primarily for fun and those who play primarily for a living?



Virtually all professional sportsmen shake hands and congratulate the winner.

In fact a professional player should realise that losing is just part of the game. He of all people shouldn't get upset by it.

In my opinion. You should be the same man win or lose. It's easy to be magnanimous when your winning.

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« Reply #81 on: August 21, 2012, 10:23:45 AM »

Surely the difference in opinion here comes from people who play poker primarily for fun and those who play primarily for a living?

In the former context I think people who refuse to shake hands are in the wrong, and in the latter those who insist on it are in the wrong.

As to the 'sorry' debate, I totally disagree that it's always false. I've made some horrific calls and sucked out on someone and said 'sorry about that mate' and truly meant it. I made a mistake and got lucky. I've been in that other guy's shoes and know how shitty it feels. I'm glad I'm still in the tournament, but I do have some human empathy and am able to feel simultaneously bad for someone else and pleased for myself.

But do you not see how you saying "sorry" just rubs it in and makes it worse?

If you really feel empathy you'll shut up and get on with the next hand.

That's a pretty huge assumption there that everyone is the same as you. I know that personally if someone says it sincerely to me it makes me feel a tiny bit better. I certainly prefer it to someone ignoring me and stacking their chips.

Different people are different. But point taken. And I'd like to think I have reasonable judgement so that I would know when to say something and when to shut up. It's part of my job.

That said more often than not I would err on the side of saying a few words. But no I wouldn't always say anything. If a guy's obviously steaming I will generally stay out of his way.

Sorry Keith, just rereading that it comes across a bit hostile. It wasn't meant that way, I was just writing quickly.
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« Reply #82 on: August 21, 2012, 10:24:07 AM »

Surely the difference in opinion here comes from people who play poker primarily for fun and those who play primarily for a living?



Virtually all professional sportsmen shake hands and congratulate the winner.

In fact a professional player should realise that losing is just part of the game. He of all people shouldn't get upset by it.

In my opinion. You should be the same man win or lose. It's easy to be magnanimous when your winning.



In pretty much every game or sport, yes. Except poker it seems.
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« Reply #83 on: August 21, 2012, 10:26:48 AM »

As has been said in the thread, it is up to the loser of the hand to offer a handshake, not the winner. It is the loser's moment, his opportunity for a final gesture at the table - whether handshake, comment, or leaving quietly in silence. The winner should melt into the background, quietly stacking his spoils of victory - this is not his time.

Remember, poker generally isn't comparable to sport, where competitors can battle hard for 90 mins or whatever, and, irrespective of results, winner and loser can earn each other's respect for the way they've played. In poker, you've generally just sat near each other for a couple of hours before a random shuffle of a deck of cards decides that one of you should leave the table.

I can only remember not shaking an offered hand after someone once knocked me out of the tourney at the Vic with a huge slowroll - I already had him pegged as a massive douche and this confirmed my read.

Outside of poker, I'm not a huge fan of handshakes anyway - there are so many people who are massively unhygienic that I really don't want to touch them.
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AlunB
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« Reply #84 on: August 21, 2012, 10:28:07 AM »

Surely the difference in opinion here comes from people who play poker primarily for fun and those who play primarily for a living?



Virtually all professional sportsmen shake hands and congratulate the winner.

In fact a professional player should realise that losing is just part of the game. He of all people shouldn't get upset by it.

In my opinion. You should be the same man win or lose. It's easy to be magnanimous when your winning.



In pretty much every game or sport, yes. Except poker it seems.

Poker is unique. I can't think of any other sport where so much luck is involved and so much is taken out of your hands. Yes there is luck in other sports, but nothing like the degree pros have to deal with in tournament poker.

I agree with you theoretically, but practically I think guys can be cut a little slack.
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AlunB
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« Reply #85 on: August 21, 2012, 10:30:09 AM »

Surely the difference in opinion here comes from people who play poker primarily for fun and those who play primarily for a living?



Virtually all professional sportsmen shake hands and congratulate the winner.

In fact a professional player should realise that losing is just part of the game. He of all people shouldn't get upset by it.

In my opinion. You should be the same man win or lose. It's easy to be magnanimous when your winning.



In pretty much every game or sport, yes. Except poker it seems.

Also poker isn't a sport
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The Camel
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« Reply #86 on: August 21, 2012, 10:30:31 AM »

As has been said in the thread, it is up to the loser of the hand to offer a handshake, not the winner. It is the loser's moment, his opportunity for a final gesture at the table - whether handshake, comment, or leaving quietly in silence. The winner should melt into the background, quietly stacking his spoils of victory - this is not his time.

Remember, poker generally isn't comparable to sport, where competitors can battle hard for 90 mins or whatever, and, irrespective of results, winner and loser can earn each other's respect for the way they've played. In poker, you've generally just sat near each other for a couple of hours before a random shuffle of a deck of cards decides that one of you should leave the table.

I can only remember not shaking an offered hand after someone once knocked me out of the tourney at the Vic with a huge slowroll - I already had him pegged as a massive douche and this confirmed my read.

Outside of poker, I'm not a huge fan of handshakes anyway - there are so many people who are massively unhygienic that I really don't want to touch them.

Andrew says in one post what I've tried to say in 10 and he says it 100 times better.

It's the losers moment.

Let him decide the way to proceed.
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« Reply #87 on: August 21, 2012, 10:33:44 AM »

Surely the difference in opinion here comes from people who play poker primarily for fun and those who play primarily for a living?



Virtually all professional sportsmen shake hands and congratulate the winner.

In fact a professional player should realise that losing is just part of the game. He of all people shouldn't get upset by it.

In my opinion. You should be the same man win or lose. It's easy to be magnanimous when your winning.



I'd like to think I behave the same way if I win or lose.

I never jump around the room celebrating if I win (I might do if I ever bust Negreanu), and I never rant or rave if I lose.

Just don't think the poker table is a place for handshakes.

I'll see you in the bar afterwards if you want to shake my hand.
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« Reply #88 on: August 21, 2012, 10:36:54 AM »



Outside of poker, I'm not a huge fan of handshakes anyway - there are so many people who are massively unhygienic that I really don't want to touch them.

Bloody Hell.

After this I will probably never shake hands again. I will be too scared of offending someone, or contaminating them.



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The Camel
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« Reply #89 on: August 21, 2012, 10:37:14 AM »

Surely the difference in opinion here comes from people who play poker primarily for fun and those who play primarily for a living?

In the former context I think people who refuse to shake hands are in the wrong, and in the latter those who insist on it are in the wrong.

As to the 'sorry' debate, I totally disagree that it's always false. I've made some horrific calls and sucked out on someone and said 'sorry about that mate' and truly meant it. I made a mistake and got lucky. I've been in that other guy's shoes and know how shitty it feels. I'm glad I'm still in the tournament, but I do have some human empathy and am able to feel simultaneously bad for someone else and pleased for myself.

But do you not see how you saying "sorry" just rubs it in and makes it worse?

If you really feel empathy you'll shut up and get on with the next hand.

That's a pretty huge assumption there that everyone is the same as you. I know that personally if someone says it sincerely to me it makes me feel a tiny bit better. I certainly prefer it to someone ignoring me and stacking their chips.

Different people are different. But point taken. And I'd like to think I have reasonable judgement so that I would know when to say something and when to shut up. It's part of my job.

That said more often than not I would err on the side of saying a few words. But no I wouldn't always say anything. If a guy's obviously steaming I will generally stay out of his way.

It just seems you are saying sorry to make yourself feel better about putting the beat on someone.

I can't think o any moment when an apology is less appreciated than when you've just outdrawn me.
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"Keith The Camel, a true champion!" - Brent Horner 30th December 2012

"I dont think you're a wanker Keith" David Nicholson 4th March 2013
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