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Woolwich shooting
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Topic: Woolwich shooting (Read 24221 times)
AndrewT
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Re: Woolwich shooting
«
Reply #135 on:
May 23, 2013, 10:15:26 PM »
Think you're all overanalysing these guy's actions.
They're just the Muslim equivalent of the EDL - unhinged pricks with incoherent thought processes used to justify dickish actions.
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Doobs
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Re: Woolwich shooting
«
Reply #136 on:
May 23, 2013, 10:28:43 PM »
Quote from: kinboshi on May 23, 2013, 10:11:41 PM
Quote from: Woodsey on May 23, 2013, 09:39:25 PM
Quote from: Doobs on May 23, 2013, 09:36:58 PM
Quote from: The Camel on May 23, 2013, 09:29:18 PM
Quote from: Doobs on May 23, 2013, 09:20:49 PM
Quote from: The Camel on May 23, 2013, 09:12:34 PM
Quote from: jjandellis on May 23, 2013, 09:09:10 PM
Quote from: The Camel on May 23, 2013, 04:23:02 PM
Quote from: redarmi on May 23, 2013, 04:17:35 PM
Going back to Keiths question about defining terrorism I think this is absolutely terrorism. Terrorism is less about the actual acts themselves as about affecting the whole population psychologically and affecting the freedom they feel to go about their lives in the usual way. The IRA's great success was that at one point in their campaign almost everybody in England had had their daily routine affected by a bomb scare even if not by a bomb directly. Similarly now there will be parents with kids that were planning on going to university in London this year that now don't want them to go because there are "terrorist nutters roaming the streets". I consider myself to be a very rational person but not long after 7/7 I was on the tube and a couple of Asian kids got on carrying big backpacks and it made me nervous. It is statistically illogical to be that way but that is the point of terror. The actual impact of their crimes goes far beyond that of their direct victims they affect the entire population.
By that definition Stu, the Yorkshire Ripper and Steve Wright were terrorists too, because thye absolutely changed the way women acted while they were on the loose.
The Ripper didn't have a political or ideological agenda he was pushing.
There are many definitions of terrorism, but personally, I think the UK's is the most comprehensive and common sense. The United Kingdom's Terrorism Act 2000 defined terrorism as follows:
(1) In this Act "terrorism" means the use or threat of action where:
(a) the action falls within subsection (2),
(b) the use or threat is designed to influence the government or to intimidate the public or a section of the public and
(c) the use or threat is made for the purpose of advancing a political, religious or ideological cause.
(2) Action falls within this subsection if it:
(a) involves serious violence against a person,
(b) involves serious damage to property,
(c) endangers a person's life, other than that of the person committing the action,
(d) creates a serious risk to the health or safety of the public or a section of the public or
(e) is designed seriously to interfere with or seriously to disrupt an electronic system.
I don't think these two nutters had a political or ideological agenda either.
I think they are using it as an excuse to justify an act of random and appalling violence.
Maybe they are using Islam to justify their violence, but if they shout Allah Akbar, spout the rhetoric about the West interfering in their lands and use beheading as there calling card, then it isn't unreasonable to assume they have an ideological agenda too.
The geezer is quite clearly English.
So England is his land.
Clearly, and I realise that, but that didn't stop him saying that in the speech to camera.
He also talked about us attacking Muslim countries, so in his head we are attacking his (Muslim) land.
I don't think he can be talking of the land of his forebears either, as that is Nigeria.
He might be as a chunk of Nigeria is Islamic, and these guys often refer to any muslim land as 'their lands'.
Wasn't he a Christian until a few years ago (after he came to the UK)? I've not watched the videos, but didn't he also shout out "and eye for an eye" (or something similar) so was quoting the bible rather than the Koran - something I would have thought a fundamentalist Muslim shouldn't do (as they will obviously believe that the Koran is the only correct religious book).
And We ordained for them therein a life for a life, an eye for an eye, a nose for a nose, an ear for an ear, a tooth for a tooth
http://corpus.quran.com/translation.jsp?chapter=5&verse=45
Practically the same book
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Most of the bets placed so far seem more like hopeful punts rather than value spots
kinboshi
ROMANES EUNT DOMUS
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We go again.
Re: Woolwich shooting
«
Reply #137 on:
May 23, 2013, 10:43:23 PM »
Aha, cool. Not up to speed with my Koran.
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'The meme for blind faith secures its own perpetuation by the simple unconscious expedient of discouraging rational inquiry.'
Woodsey
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Re: Woolwich shooting
«
Reply #138 on:
May 23, 2013, 10:46:04 PM »
Quote from: kinboshi on May 23, 2013, 10:43:23 PM
Aha, cool. Not up to speed with my Koran.
Eh? Wtf is up with you tonight, you never give up that easily
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nirvana
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Re: Woolwich shooting
«
Reply #139 on:
May 23, 2013, 11:59:36 PM »
Quote from: Woodsey on May 23, 2013, 10:46:04 PM
Quote from: kinboshi on May 23, 2013, 10:43:23 PM
Aha, cool. Not up to speed with my Koran.
Eh? Wtf is up with you tonight, you never give up that easily
Pretty sure the Bible predates the Koran - he'll be back :-)
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sola virtus nobilitat
Royal Flush
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Booooccccceeeeeee
Re: Woolwich shooting
«
Reply #140 on:
May 24, 2013, 12:30:54 AM »
Quote from: leethefish on May 23, 2013, 02:11:28 PM
Quote from: Royal Flush on May 23, 2013, 02:09:45 PM
Quote from: RED-DOG on May 23, 2013, 01:18:04 PM
Yes. I think these guys should suffer the death penalty. Not for revenge, but to make absolutely sure they never do it again, and to save us the cost of imprisoning them for the next 40 /50 years.
Given that at least one of them was not even a Muslim just a few years ago would it not be wise to undo the brain washing he has clearly fallen victim to rather than just kill him?
Quite simply
NO
You make a compelling case, i concede.
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MintTrav
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Re: Woolwich shooting
«
Reply #141 on:
May 24, 2013, 12:45:37 AM »
Can't understand the people talking to them or filming them. Surely there is the possibility that someone who has just knifed a stranger to death and mutilated them might become, you know, a bit violent and maybe do it again.
And twenty minutes for the police to arrive? That's quite a long time for those guys to be left ruling the street.
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Royal Flush
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Booooccccceeeeeee
Re: Woolwich shooting
«
Reply #142 on:
May 24, 2013, 12:46:19 AM »
Quote from: MintTrav on May 24, 2013, 12:45:37 AM
And twenty minutes for the police to arrive? That's quite a long time for those guys to be left ruling the street.
It would be, it was 9 mins from when someone finally called them.
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[19:44:40] Oracle: WE'RE ALL GOING ON A SPANISH HOLIDAY! TRIGGS STABLES SHIT!
Dingdell
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Re: Woolwich shooting
«
Reply #143 on:
May 24, 2013, 12:57:18 AM »
Quote from: Royal Flush on May 24, 2013, 12:46:19 AM
Quote from: MintTrav on May 24, 2013, 12:45:37 AM
And twenty minutes for the police to arrive? That's quite a long time for those guys to be left ruling the street.
It would be, it was 9 mins from when someone finally called them.
That is scary - eveyone else assumed that someone else had called I guess??
I was at the Black Museum in Scotland Yard many years ago and they had pictures of the Brixton riots that were taken but not published due to concerns over public outcry and decency - the one I remember most was the one of PC Blakelock's headless body and then the protestors with his head on a stick taunting the police with it. Today that would have been published all over the internet - perhaps with a warning - but still out there. I'm not sure I'm comfortable with the casualness that we now stand there and film things, detached from whats actually happening.
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kukushkin88
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Re: Woolwich shooting
«
Reply #144 on:
May 24, 2013, 01:03:50 AM »
Quote from: Woodsey on May 23, 2013, 10:15:18 PM
You're late
How is what these people did different to the 10´s of thousands of people killed in Afghanistan and Iraq? Totally legitimate military target, it´s the same war, they fought back.
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redarmi
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Re: Woolwich shooting
«
Reply #145 on:
May 24, 2013, 01:07:44 AM »
Quote from: MintTrav on May 24, 2013, 12:45:37 AM
Can't understand the people talking to them or filming them. Surely there is the possibility that someone who has just knifed a stranger to death and mutilated them might become, you know, a bit violent and maybe do it again.
This is the thing that mystified me. If I had just seen a guy chop someones head off I sure as hell wouldnt be hanging around chatting to them or taking their pictures. I would assume they were seriously deranged and likely to do something equally deranged again at any moment and get the hell out of there.
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Woodsey
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Re: Woolwich shooting
«
Reply #146 on:
May 24, 2013, 01:08:24 AM »
Quote from: kukushkin88 on May 24, 2013, 01:03:50 AM
Quote from: Woodsey on May 23, 2013, 10:15:18 PM
You're late
How is what these people did different to the 10´s of thousands of people killed in Afghanistan and Iraq? Totally legitimate military target, it´s the same war, they fought back.
I was taking the piss out of Boshi with that comment just for banter purposes as we do on here.
Your need to tell me exactly what your on about just so I understand.
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kukushkin88
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Re: Woolwich shooting
«
Reply #147 on:
May 24, 2013, 01:15:50 AM »
Quote from: Woodsey on May 24, 2013, 01:08:24 AM
Quote from: kukushkin88 on May 24, 2013, 01:03:50 AM
Quote from: Woodsey on May 23, 2013, 10:15:18 PM
You're late
How is what these people did different to the 10´s of thousands of people killed in Afghanistan and Iraq? Totally legitimate military target, it´s the same war, they fought back.
I was taking the piss out of Boshi with that comment just for banter purposes as we do on here.
Your need to tell me exactly what your on about just so I understand.
We kill enormous numbers of people all over the world, on their doorstep.Then we go crazy when the same is revisited. I´m devastated by what happened, it´s horrendous and uspets me and those people close to me but we killed 100,000´s of people´s in their country´s so please be reasonable.
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The Camel
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Under my tree, being a troll.
Re: Woolwich shooting
«
Reply #148 on:
May 24, 2013, 01:17:01 AM »
Quote from: kukushkin88 on May 24, 2013, 01:15:50 AM
Quote from: Woodsey on May 24, 2013, 01:08:24 AM
Quote from: kukushkin88 on May 24, 2013, 01:03:50 AM
Quote from: Woodsey on May 23, 2013, 10:15:18 PM
You're late
How is what these people did different to the 10´s of thousands of people killed in Afghanistan and Iraq? Totally legitimate military target, it´s the same war, they fought back.
I was taking the piss out of Boshi with that comment just for banter purposes as we do on here.
Your need to tell me exactly what your on about just so I understand.
We kill enormous numbers of people all over the world, on there doorstep.Then we go crazy when the same is revisited. I´m devastated by what happened, it´s horrendous and uspets me and those people close to me but we killed 100,000´s of people´s in their country´s so please be reasonable.
don't think this is going to end well.
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Congratulations to the 2012 League Champion - Stapleton Atheists
"Keith The Camel, a true champion!" - Brent Horner 30th December 2012
"I dont think you're a wanker Keith" David Nicholson 4th March 2013
celtic
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Re: Woolwich shooting
«
Reply #149 on:
May 24, 2013, 01:18:44 AM »
Whether we like it or not, kukushkin makes a very valid point.
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