The UK Politics and EU Referendum thread - merged

[MANTIS01]

Aaron's back.

There are arguments for a second vote, and there are equally as many intelligent reasons that one vote was enough.

I never for one minute believed Farage when he said 300 odd mill was going to the NHS, it was obviously a Chuck away comment. Only fools latched onto that, for both sides.

We are where we are, now let's get on with that...not a second vote.

The reality of it is that we can't get on with it. It is impossible.

It isn't impossible.

The actual reality is that we've made the task infinitely more challenging for ourselves and the 6p's couldn't be more relevant.

Proper planning prevents piss poor performance.

We should have triggered Article 50 in our own good time. Had a firm, detailed transition plan. A united front with all people and parliament putting national interest first. Employed a bad ass negotiator who knew how to deliver. A firm commitment to No Deal if EU played silly beggars. Forget protests and placards and marches and orange baby balloons and project fear. 

What we actually did was throw together a pedal car in one afternoon and put it on the back row of a forumula one grid.

So now the task looks impossible. It's our fault. But the lights are about to go green so we better start pedalling.

Saying we had poor leadership and inadequate strategy so the concerns of our people no longer matter would turn a shit situation into the bowels of hell imo.

Nice to see you back bro!!!!

[ripple11]

UK to leave the EU by 29/03/19

Yes  2.56

No   1.62

Betfair today.

[BigAdz]

Aaron's back.

There are arguments for a second vote, and there are equally as many intelligent reasons that one vote was enough.

I never for one minute believed Farage when he said 300 odd mill was going to the NHS, it was obviously a Chuck away comment. Only fools latched onto that, for both sides.

We are where we are, now let's get on with that...not a second vote.

The reality of it is that we can't get on with it. It is impossible.

It isn't impossible.

The actual reality is that we've made the task infinitely more challenging for ourselves and the 6p's couldn't be more relevant.

Proper planning prevents piss poor performance.

We should have triggered Article 50 in our own good time. Had a firm, detailed transition plan. A united front with all people and parliament putting national interest first. Employed a bad ass negotiator who knew how to deliver. A firm commitment to No Deal if EU played silly beggars. Forget protests and placards and marches and orange baby balloons and project fear. 

What we actually did was throw together a pedal car in one afternoon and put it on the back row of a forumula one grid.

So now the task looks impossible. It's our fault. But the lights are about to go green so we better start pedalling.

Saying we had poor leadership and inadequate strategy so the concerns of our people no longer matter would turn a shit situation into the bowels of hell imo.

Nice to see you back bro!!!!

The truth is as Mantis says. However if the remoaners had just let things happen instead of the relentless moaning, we may have actually taken our time and thought about it, but the even more hapless and stupid Tory Leadership into rushed actions under pressure from those that lost the vote.

[BigAdz]

Aaron's back.

There are arguments for a second vote, and there are equally as many intelligent reasons that one vote was enough.

I never for one minute believed Farage when he said 300 odd mill was going to the NHS, it was obviously a Chuck away comment. Only fools latched onto that, for both sides.

We are where we are, now let's get on with that...not a second vote.

Not like they stuck it on the side of a bus and drove around the UK

If you ever saw the original  interview when he said it, it was clear it was a throw away line. The idiot interviewer gave it so much credence I'm not surprised that ran with it.

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-eu-referendum-nigel-farage-nhs-350-million-pounds-live-health-service-u-turn-a7102831.html%3famp

Your video does nothing but prove my point. Clearly winging it and then others tried to spin it into something else.

Thanks for that.

[aaron1867]

I am no political analyst, expert, journalist, or anything else, but it's completely clear that the only way to get through this, is through a second vote. That second vote should be two options of No Deal or Remain.

A lot of leave voters thought that's what they were voting for.

I can't see how another vote will help anyway. It was never legally binding but the result had to be enacted for political reasons because they promised it would.

If they call another referendum they're basically telling us that they want a different result. If that's the case they might as well just call it off and accept the political backlash and riots that come with it.

I would think that most people who voted to leave, voted to leave with a deal, therefore avoiding even more downturn. In fact, I'd say it's  vast majority who voted to leave with some sort of deal. The folk that I believe to want to go out on the worst possible terms, are those people like Big Dave down at the dog and parrot who down in their footy shirt and sit at home in their rule britannia onesies.

I get that most people (not all) who voted leave won't want another vote. But we government can't get over the line & as already said, I don't think parliament will let us slip out without a deal, without going to people first. I don't believe it's a simple assumption that they want another result, it's just in factsaying they are at deadlock, and before going full throttle down the worst route of all, no deal, that perhaps it might be an idea to ask the public rather than 650 MP's.

As for your Remain comment regarding lies. I don't think there was lies, the experts came out and forecasted that there would be a downturn, which there has been. They never said they WOULD be a recession, they instead said it was a possibility. It's clear through our current growth, economy & exchange rates, that it has had a clear impact. It's also had a direct impact on everyone one of us too, we are all paying MORE. I am of the opinion that there is a significantly higher number of people who voted to remain voted because of the economy & because they knew of potential dangers, compared to leave voters.

But I ask you the question, out of those 17.2m, how many of them do you think voted for a deal over no deal? how many voted for the big red bus? how many voted because they thought we'd stop sending EU money? who voted not knowing we'd have to apply for travel to EU? etc etc etc etc etc etc

There are simply many aspects of Brexit that people didn't vote for. I would say many millions of leave voters are unhappy that we might go out on no deal.

And yes, it's clear I'd prefer a second vote, not just to vote for remain, but also for clarity. I genuinely think it is the only way we can get clarity.

[kukushkin88]

Aaron's back.

There are arguments for a second vote, and there are equally as many intelligent reasons that one vote was enough.

I never for one minute believed Farage when he said 300 odd mill was going to the NHS, it was obviously a Chuck away comment. Only fools latched onto that, for both sides.

We are where we are, now let's get on with that...not a second vote.

Not like they stuck it on the side of a bus and drove around the UK

If you ever saw the original  interview when he said it, it was clear it was a throw away line. The idiot interviewer gave it so much credence I'm not surprised that ran with it.

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-eu-referendum-nigel-farage-nhs-350-million-pounds-live-health-service-u-turn-a7102831.html%3famp

Your video does nothing but prove my point. Clearly winging it and then others tried to spin it into something else.

Thanks for that.

If that’s what you think you saw, that’s cool.

[BigAdz]

I am no political analyst, expert, journalist, or anything else, but it's completely clear that the only way to get through this, is through a second vote. That second vote should be two options of No Deal or Remain.

A lot of leave voters thought that's what they were voting for.

I can't see how another vote will help anyway. It was never legally binding but the result had to be enacted for political reasons because they promised it would.

If they call another referendum they're basically telling us that they want a different result. If that's the case they might as well just call it off and accept the political backlash and riots that come with it.

I would think that most people who voted to leave, voted to leave with a deal, therefore avoiding even more downturn. In fact, I'd say it's  vast majority who voted to leave with some sort of deal. The folk that I believe to want to go out on the worst possible terms, are those people like Big Dave down at the dog and parrot who down in their footy shirt and sit at home in their rule britannia onesies.

I get that most people (not all) who voted leave won't want another vote. But we government can't get over the line & as already said, I don't think parliament will let us slip out without a deal, without going to people first. I don't believe it's a simple assumption that they want another result, it's just in factsaying they are at deadlock, and before going full throttle down the worst route of all, no deal, that perhaps it might be an idea to ask the public rather than 650 MP's.

As for your Remain comment regarding lies. I don't think there was lies, the experts came out and forecasted that there would be a downturn, which there has been. They never said they WOULD be a recession, they instead said it was a possibility. It's clear through our current growth, economy & exchange rates, that it has had a clear impact. It's also had a direct impact on everyone one of us too, we are all paying MORE. I am of the opinion that there is a significantly higher number of people who voted to remain voted because of the economy & because they knew of potential dangers, compared to leave voters.

But I ask you the question, out of those 17.2m, how many of them do you think voted for a deal over no deal? how many voted for the big red bus? how many voted because they thought we'd stop sending EU money? who voted not knowing we'd have to apply for travel to EU? etc etc etc etc etc etc

There are simply many aspects of Brexit that people didn't vote for. I would say many millions of leave voters are unhappy that we might go out on no deal.

And yes, it's clear I'd prefer a second vote, not just to vote for remain, but also for clarity. I genuinely think it is the only way we can get clarity.

Come down to my Golf Club in the heart of the Cotswolds. Not a Big Dave amongst them, not even close. All middle class upwards. All angry that this is still being debated.

You need to get out more mate.

[kukushkin88]

Aaron's back.

There are arguments for a second vote, and there are equally as many intelligent reasons that one vote was enough.

I never for one minute believed Farage when he said 300 odd mill was going to the NHS, it was obviously a Chuck away comment. Only fools latched onto that, for both sides.

We are where we are, now let's get on with that...not a second vote.

Not like they stuck it on the side of a bus and drove around the UK

If you ever saw the original  interview when he said it, it was clear it was a throw away line. The idiot interviewer gave it so much credence I'm not surprised that ran with it.

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-eu-referendum-nigel-farage-nhs-350-million-pounds-live-health-service-u-turn-a7102831.html%3famp

https://fullfact.org/health/nhs-england-394-million-more/

I’m not clear on the relevance? There’ll be less money available to the exchequer as a result of Brexit, unquestioned in all scenarios. They might spend a greater proportion of the smaller amount and therefore more than they do currently on the NHS? It would be better if it was clearer where the money will come from I guess.

[aaron1867]

Aaron's back.

There are arguments for a second vote, and there are equally as many intelligent reasons that one vote was enough.

I never for one minute believed Farage when he said 300 odd mill was going to the NHS, it was obviously a Chuck away comment. Only fools latched onto that, for both sides.

We are where we are, now let's get on with that...not a second vote.

The reality of it is that we can't get on with it. It is impossible.

It isn't impossible.

The actual reality is that we've made the task infinitely more challenging for ourselves and the 6p's couldn't be more relevant.

Proper planning prevents piss poor performance.

We should have triggered Article 50 in our own good time. Had a firm, detailed transition plan. A united front with all people and parliament putting national interest first. Employed a bad ass negotiator who knew how to deliver. A firm commitment to No Deal if EU played silly beggars. Forget protests and placards and marches and orange baby balloons and project fear.  

What we actually did was throw together a pedal car in one afternoon and put it on the back row of a forumula one grid.

So now the task looks impossible. It's our fault. But the lights are about to go green so we better start pedalling.

Saying we had poor leadership and inadequate strategy so the concerns of our people no longer matter would turn a shit situation into the bowels of hell imo.

Nice to see you back bro!!!!

You are spot on Mantis. we should have had folk there from the biggest business in the UK, not Raab in his Toyota Corolla.

But how do we get out of this mess? A deal can't be made here, it's clear.

Do we hurtle towards the no deal, knowing the MP's are against and o are the public? Do we call a second vote, which would obviously anger many brexiters? Is a GE a genuine possibility, when it looks like it couldn't change anything.

My own personal view (even though I would like this option, anyway) is that there will be a second vote in which there should be two options - No deal or Remain.

[BigAdz]

Aaron's back.

There are arguments for a second vote, and there are equally as many intelligent reasons that one vote was enough.

I never for one minute believed Farage when he said 300 odd mill was going to the NHS, it was obviously a Chuck away comment. Only fools latched onto that, for both sides.

We are where we are, now let's get on with that...not a second vote.

Not like they stuck it on the side of a bus and drove around the UK

If you ever saw the original  interview when he said it, it was clear it was a throw away line. The idiot interviewer gave it so much credence I'm not surprised that ran with it.

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-eu-referendum-nigel-farage-nhs-350-million-pounds-live-health-service-u-turn-a7102831.html%3famp

Your video does nothing but prove my point. Clearly winging it and then others tried to spin it into something else.

Thanks for that.

If that’s what you think you saw, that’s cool.

Come on Kush. How much did that need to be edited to get the opinion you wanted. Its very clear he made that up on the hoof and the press latched onto it.

He even said it wasnt his intention in the Good Morning interview at then end. You have seen what you want to see to fit your agenda.......again

[kukushkin88]

Aaron's back.

There are arguments for a second vote, and there are equally as many intelligent reasons that one vote was enough.

I never for one minute believed Farage when he said 300 odd mill was going to the NHS, it was obviously a Chuck away comment. Only fools latched onto that, for both sides.

We are where we are, now let's get on with that...not a second vote.

Not like they stuck it on the side of a bus and drove around the UK

If you ever saw the original  interview when he said it, it was clear it was a throw away line. The idiot interviewer gave it so much credence I'm not surprised that ran with it.

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-eu-referendum-nigel-farage-nhs-350-million-pounds-live-health-service-u-turn-a7102831.html%3famp

Your video does nothing but prove my point. Clearly winging it and then others tried to spin it into something else.

Thanks for that.

If that’s what you think you saw, that’s cool.

Come on Kush. How much did that need to be edited to get the opinion you wanted. Its very clear he made that up on the hoof and the press latched onto it.

He even said it wasnt his intention in the Good Morning interview at then end. You have seen what you want to see to fit your agenda.......again

It’s just not a big deal to me. I just thought the conversation might benefit, accuracy wise, from seeing the actual footage of him saying it. I’m no fan of The Independent.

[BigAdz]

Accuracy wise you proved my point, so thank you.

I don't like the Independent either. Defo not whats written on the tin.

[kukushkin88]

Accuracy wise you proved my point, so thank you.

I don't like the Independent either. Defo not whats written on the tin.

As before, if you think it proved your point, that’s great. Good for you, right again :-)

[MANTIS01]

What's also been made clear throughout is commentators just don't understand British people.

Nobody thought we would vote Leave but we did.

Nobody thinks we would vote Leave again but we will.

We just love battling the odds and being the under-dog. We are fiercely independent, stubborn and proud to a fault.

People who think we will forgo our principles because there will be less piggy wiggies coming from Rotterdam or a £6 visa charge to visit Valencia will be sadly mistaken.

This is all like a modern WW1, not armed combat but a political fight. Back in WW1 it was impossible to think we could win against the odds but we did, same in WW2. Now we wear poppies with unwavering pride to remember that people gave their lives so we could tremble about a sugar shortage.

What we do Aaron is take our medicine and rediscover our stiff upper lip. The union will falter, the euro will fail and others will follow our lead. Might take 20yrs and they might start realising how vital our membership is so they concede ground with a better deal. The EU think they can teach us a lesson? Well we're going over the top. Sure some people will cower behind moaning about their boots pinching or the mud or whatever. But going over the top with our traditional courage is the only option. Other than waving the white flag. And Brits just wont do that.  

[MANTIS01]

We pedal hard while we build a better car 

FMP