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Poll
Question: How will you vote on December 12th 2019
Conservative - 19 (33.9%)
Labour - 12 (21.4%)
SNP - 2 (3.6%)
Lib Dem - 8 (14.3%)
Brexit - 1 (1.8%)
Green - 6 (10.7%)
Other - 2 (3.6%)
Spoil - 0 (0%)
Not voting - 6 (10.7%)
Total Voters: 55

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Author Topic: The UK Politics and EU Referendum thread - merged  (Read 2181052 times)
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« Reply #18465 on: June 27, 2019, 10:59:31 AM »

Clever people!

“Modern times. A google search containing words 'Boris Johnson Bus' will now not bring up his £350m lie. This is now buried behind pages of 'I make model buses' quotes that suggest the eccentric fellow has odd hobbies. Simple manipulation.”
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« Reply #18466 on: June 27, 2019, 11:04:10 AM »

Prospect Magazine

"A lot of what’s coming can’t be predicted, but one thing is for sure: Britain is heading for a massive political crisis either next month or in October - and Johnson’s toast."

I like the URL,nice and dramatic

https://www.prospectmagazine.co.uk/politics/make-no-mistake-britain-is-on-the-cusp-of-a-constitutional-crisis-of-epic-proportions


Seems a decent analysis, so what future path is open to us?

Leaving under the strict terms of the WA shouldn’t be acceptable to anyone, with or without resolving the Irish question.

Revoke is the only path that the country can actually choose to take. I’m not suggesting that it is the way forward, but it does at least have the advantage of being in our control.

Making that move with firm leadership and following it up with a genuine effort to get revisions in the EU systems might be the only card Boris has left. A Damascene conversion and, to mix the biblical metaphors, a chance to lead us into a promised land.

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« Reply #18467 on: June 27, 2019, 11:05:51 AM »

Divided Britain in one chart

(You Gov, yesterday)

subtitle: No shit, Sherlock

In other news, Pope believed to be Catholic.
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« Reply #18468 on: June 27, 2019, 11:08:57 AM »

Prospect Magazine

"A lot of what’s coming can’t be predicted, but one thing is for sure: Britain is heading for a massive political crisis either next month or in October - and Johnson’s toast."

I like the URL,nice and dramatic

https://www.prospectmagazine.co.uk/politics/make-no-mistake-britain-is-on-the-cusp-of-a-constitutional-crisis-of-epic-proportions


Seems a decent analysis, so what future path is open to us?

Leaving under the strict terms of the WA shouldn’t be acceptable to anyone, with or without resolving the Irish question.

Revoke is the only path that the country can actually choose to take. I’m not suggesting that it is the way forward, but it does at least have the advantage of being in our control.

Making that move with firm leadership and following it up with a genuine effort to get revisions in the EU systems might be the only card Boris has left. A Damascene conversion and, to mix the biblical metaphors, a chance to lead us into a promised land.



Leaving under the terms of the WA is acceptable to some, me included. Gets us out, a stepping stone until technology solves the border issue..and allows other stuff to be negotiated.

We don't go anywhere if the EU won't renegotiate it, if no deal can't pass parliament..the options are referendum (neither Boris or Corbyn will want one, though leave might win again), Election (Boris would be brave before Breixt, most likely outcome would be a complicated left leaning coalition that might want to revoke) or...

As it can't pass though, I believe the first place that discussed revoke as a "blue sky" scenario under a PM with a strong personal brand who could sell it was...on here?
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« Reply #18469 on: June 27, 2019, 12:08:07 PM »

a view i saw overnight was

"With Boris Johnson pushing for no deal, the remain movement must now shift away from advocating a People’s Vote in favour of arguing to revoke Article 50 — so a 2nd referendum instead becomes the compromise, the notion of cancelling Brexit is normalised & they control the framing"

Yeah, definitely this. As said before Brexit doesn’t become less of a disaster or any easier to implement just because there is a 2nd referendum.
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« Reply #18470 on: June 27, 2019, 12:37:48 PM »

If we label Brexit as disastrous what are we tagging revocation as?

Aside from money (which is a point hammered to death) what are the advantages of revocation?
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« Reply #18471 on: June 27, 2019, 12:51:00 PM »

That it is leverage over the EU (or might be). We currently have none (as it has turned out) No deal impacts 8% of EU exports, 40% of ours, they appear prepared to let that 8% swing....

We say we'll revoke (gives us leverage) if we to get meaningful change from an ongoing relationship, then Boris sells it...

That we avoid all of the no deal downsides, should it prove impossible to get a deal through the EU and Parliament, which looks very likely

The downside is also big, impact on democracy, attitudes to voting etc

I think revoke would win a ref v no deal, by the way

I think revoke might lose a ref v a deal, for the "impact on democracy" view above though
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« Reply #18472 on: June 27, 2019, 01:04:43 PM »

Sure, revoke would win a ref vs no deal

But that’s because EU will sack off the 8% not because it’s what people want

Wonder if the gravity of that dirtiness can be grasped. EU content to hurt their people and our people to effectively force UK into voting for something they don’t want. Yep would agree that’s a big impact on democracy.
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« Reply #18473 on: June 27, 2019, 01:11:12 PM »

well, right or wrong, they value their unity and protecting each of the 27, specifically here Ireland and its border and the good friday agreement, over that portion of their exports and the economic impact associated should it be lost

It's not dirty, its just a meeting of the ideological and the practical.

At least they have a coherent view....We haven't had one!
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« Reply #18474 on: June 27, 2019, 02:06:20 PM »

Starting to see 'the EU are forcing us to vote for something we don't want' on Twitter, not sure how that squares with taking back control.
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« Reply #18475 on: June 27, 2019, 02:07:12 PM »

well, right or wrong, they value their unity and protecting each of the 27, specifically here Ireland and its border and the good friday agreement, over that portion of their exports and the economic impact associated should it be lost

It's not dirty, its just a meeting of the ideological and the practical.

At least they have a coherent view....We haven't had one!

Yep they’re putting a notional view of how things should be above optimising economics.

If they were a UK citizen I think EU would’ve voted Leave in the first referendum
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« Reply #18476 on: June 27, 2019, 02:09:06 PM »

Clever people!

“Modern times. A google search containing words 'Boris Johnson Bus' will now not bring up his £350m lie. This is now buried behind pages of 'I make model buses' quotes that suggest the eccentric fellow has odd hobbies. Simple manipulation.”

Keep up!  Smiley

Maybe Boris' hobbies weren't as random as we thought, although this would mean that we'd have to credit him with next level strategic thinking.

https://twitter.com/BeffernieBlack/status/1143808921074843648
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« Reply #18477 on: June 27, 2019, 02:13:19 PM »

Clever people!

“Modern times. A google search containing words 'Boris Johnson Bus' will now not bring up his £350m lie. This is now buried behind pages of 'I make model buses' quotes that suggest the eccentric fellow has odd hobbies. Simple manipulation.”

Keep up!  Smiley

Maybe Boris' hobbies weren't as random as we thought, although this would mean that we'd have to credit him with next level strategic thinking.

https://twitter.com/BeffernieBlack/status/1143808921074843648

Keep up back, posted it before you yesterday :-)
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« Reply #18478 on: June 27, 2019, 02:43:44 PM »

And it keeps coming

Brexit: Japanese foreign minister warns against no-deal

Japanese companies in the UK will be threatened by a no-deal Brexit, Japan's foreign minister has warned.

Taro Kono told the Today programme that some companies have already started moving their operation to others parts of Europe.

"We do not want to disrupt the economic relationship with the UK. We've been asking the UK government to let the Japanese companies know what to expect."

interview on this link https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-politics-48784175/brexit-japanese-foreign-minister-warns-against-no-deal
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« Reply #18479 on: June 27, 2019, 02:45:48 PM »

Tom Watson and dozens of Labour MPs denounce the reinstatement decision for Chris Williamson the anti-semite  and put blame at Jeremy Corbyn’s door

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