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Poll
Question: How will you vote on December 12th 2019
Conservative - 19 (33.9%)
Labour - 12 (21.4%)
SNP - 2 (3.6%)
Lib Dem - 8 (14.3%)
Brexit - 1 (1.8%)
Green - 6 (10.7%)
Other - 2 (3.6%)
Spoil - 0 (0%)
Not voting - 6 (10.7%)
Total Voters: 55

Pages: 1 ... 359 360 361 362 [363] 364 365 366 367 ... 1533 Go Down Print
Author Topic: The UK Politics and EU Referendum thread - merged  (Read 2180521 times)
Woodsey
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« Reply #5430 on: July 23, 2016, 05:25:11 PM »


re sports direct blog "the majority of jobs went to east European workers".   Surely they wouldn't have had a vote?  So what is he saying - people voted Brexit because Eastern Europeans were stealing their shitty jobs? 

Wouldnt the attitude be if eastern europeans didnt accept this shit (because they are treated similar worse in poland for a fraction of the pay) by not being here, sport direct would have to offer proper conditions or not have staff. The fact employers act this way is they think they can replace their staff at will, its an employers market. Reduce the labour pool and people are forced to compete for staff with terms and conditions as they arent as readily replaceable. Ofcourse alot of these beliefs are drven by people who turn up to the jobcentre key in 20 quid an hour labouring jobs.

but he says

Why should gloomy forecasts of a Brexit future worry you when you don’t even know if you’ll get paid next week?

If Sports Directs Labour practices are widespread, then he might have a point, but the people who he uses as an example in the main didn't vote.

The people who jobs they are 'stealing' though did....
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doubleup
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« Reply #5431 on: July 23, 2016, 05:27:14 PM »


re sports direct blog "the majority of jobs went to east European workers".   Surely they wouldn't have had a vote?  So what is he saying - people voted Brexit because Eastern Europeans were stealing their shitty jobs?  

Wouldnt the attitude be if eastern europeans didnt accept this shit (because they are treated similar worse in poland for a fraction of the pay) by not being here, sport direct would have to offer proper conditions or not have staff. The fact employers act this way is they think they can replace their staff at will, its an employers market. Reduce the labour pool and people are forced to compete for staff with terms and conditions as they arent as readily replaceable. Ofcourse alot of these beliefs are drven by people who turn up to the jobcentre key in 20 quid an hour labouring jobs.

but he says

Why should gloomy forecasts of a Brexit future worry you when you don’t even know if you’ll get paid next week?

If Sports Directs Labour practices are widespread, then he might have a point, but the people who he uses as an example in the main didn't vote.

The people who jobs they are 'stealing' though did....

You can speculate about that, but it's not what he says in the article.

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DaveShoelace
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« Reply #5432 on: July 23, 2016, 11:11:28 PM »

 Click to see full-size image.
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ripple11
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« Reply #5433 on: July 23, 2016, 11:38:01 PM »

...and now Watergate break ins happening.....you couldn't make it up
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Woodsey
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« Reply #5434 on: July 24, 2016, 01:20:36 AM »


re sports direct blog "the majority of jobs went to east European workers".   Surely they wouldn't have had a vote?  So what is he saying - people voted Brexit because Eastern Europeans were stealing their shitty jobs?  

Wouldnt the attitude be if eastern europeans didnt accept this shit (because they are treated similar worse in poland for a fraction of the pay) by not being here, sport direct would have to offer proper conditions or not have staff. The fact employers act this way is they think they can replace their staff at will, its an employers market. Reduce the labour pool and people are forced to compete for staff with terms and conditions as they arent as readily replaceable. Ofcourse alot of these beliefs are drven by people who turn up to the jobcentre key in 20 quid an hour labouring jobs.

but he says

Why should gloomy forecasts of a Brexit future worry you when you don’t even know if you’ll get paid next week?

If Sports Directs Labour practices are widespread, then he might have a point, but the people who he uses as an example in the main didn't vote.

The people who jobs they are 'stealing' though did....

You can speculate about that, but it's not what he says in the article.

No speculation required, here is the result in that constituency, 70% leave....

http://election.news.sky.com/referendum/bolsover-2727
« Last Edit: July 24, 2016, 01:23:52 AM by Woodsey » Logged
doubleup
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« Reply #5435 on: July 24, 2016, 07:47:57 PM »


re sports direct blog "the majority of jobs went to east European workers".   Surely they wouldn't have had a vote?  So what is he saying - people voted Brexit because Eastern Europeans were stealing their shitty jobs?  

Wouldnt the attitude be if eastern europeans didnt accept this shit (because they are treated similar worse in poland for a fraction of the pay) by not being here, sport direct would have to offer proper conditions or not have staff. The fact employers act this way is they think they can replace their staff at will, its an employers market. Reduce the labour pool and people are forced to compete for staff with terms and conditions as they arent as readily replaceable. Ofcourse alot of these beliefs are drven by people who turn up to the jobcentre key in 20 quid an hour labouring jobs.

but he says

Why should gloomy forecasts of a Brexit future worry you when you don’t even know if you’ll get paid next week?

If Sports Directs Labour practices are widespread, then he might have a point, but the people who he uses as an example in the main didn't vote.

The people who jobs they are 'stealing' though did....

You can speculate about that, but it's not what he says in the article.

No speculation required, here is the result in that constituency, 70% leave....

http://election.news.sky.com/referendum/bolsover-2727

For the 3rd time in his article he says that people who couldn't vote were voting out because they were being exploited.

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Woodsey
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« Reply #5436 on: July 24, 2016, 07:56:16 PM »


re sports direct blog "the majority of jobs went to east European workers".   Surely they wouldn't have had a vote?  So what is he saying - people voted Brexit because Eastern Europeans were stealing their shitty jobs?  

Wouldnt the attitude be if eastern europeans didnt accept this shit (because they are treated similar worse in poland for a fraction of the pay) by not being here, sport direct would have to offer proper conditions or not have staff. The fact employers act this way is they think they can replace their staff at will, its an employers market. Reduce the labour pool and people are forced to compete for staff with terms and conditions as they arent as readily replaceable. Ofcourse alot of these beliefs are drven by people who turn up to the jobcentre key in 20 quid an hour labouring jobs.

but he says

Why should gloomy forecasts of a Brexit future worry you when you don’t even know if you’ll get paid next week?

If Sports Directs Labour practices are widespread, then he might have a point, but the people who he uses as an example in the main didn't vote.

The people who jobs they are 'stealing' though did....

You can speculate about that, but it's not what he says in the article.

No speculation required, here is the result in that constituency, 70% leave....

http://election.news.sky.com/referendum/bolsover-2727

For the 3rd time in his article he says that people who couldn't vote were voting out because they were being exploited.

I was referring to your comment...


re sports direct blog "the majority of jobs went to east European workers".   Surely they wouldn't have had a vote?  'So what is he saying - people voted Brexit because Eastern Europeans were stealing their shitty jobs?'

Yes they probably were...
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Doobs
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« Reply #5437 on: July 24, 2016, 08:41:29 PM »


re sports direct blog "the majority of jobs went to east European workers".   Surely they wouldn't have had a vote?  So what is he saying - people voted Brexit because Eastern Europeans were stealing their shitty jobs?  

Wouldnt the attitude be if eastern europeans didnt accept this shit (because they are treated similar worse in poland for a fraction of the pay) by not being here, sport direct would have to offer proper conditions or not have staff. The fact employers act this way is they think they can replace their staff at will, its an employers market. Reduce the labour pool and people are forced to compete for staff with terms and conditions as they arent as readily replaceable. Ofcourse alot of these beliefs are drven by people who turn up to the jobcentre key in 20 quid an hour labouring jobs.

but he says

Why should gloomy forecasts of a Brexit future worry you when you don’t even know if you’ll get paid next week?

If Sports Directs Labour practices are widespread, then he might have a point, but the people who he uses as an example in the main didn't vote.

The people who jobs they are 'stealing' though did....

You can speculate about that, but it's not what he says in the article.

No speculation required, here is the result in that constituency, 70% leave....

http://election.news.sky.com/referendum/bolsover-2727

For the 3rd time in his article he says that people who couldn't vote were voting out because they were being exploited.

I was referring to your comment...


re sports direct blog "the majority of jobs went to east European workers".   Surely they wouldn't have had a vote?  'So what is he saying - people voted Brexit because Eastern Europeans were stealing their shitty jobs?'

Yes they probably were...

A new employer opened a new business (the wareshouse) in town.  He effectively employed more immigrants than locals (his agents did, but I don't want to contemplicate it and it is pretty irrelevant).  Before the warehouse opened nobody that lived there had shitty jobs at this warehouse.  It seems to me that lots of locals were given shitty jobs they didn't have before.  How have the immigrants stolen people's shitty jobs?

An unknown amount of warehouse workers voted for brexit.  Tens of thousands of other people voted for brexit in that constituency.  It isn't clear how shitty all these people's jobs were, or even if they had one.  It isn't clear how many had ever even applied to, or would even want to, work at this warehouse.

I would say it is pretty likely that only a very small proportion of the brexiters in that constituency could be described as having had their jobs stolen by immigrants.

Not defending Sports Direct at all here. 

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« Reply #5438 on: July 24, 2016, 08:44:10 PM »

Well they won't even have any shitty jobs when Hammond agrees to flood the country with cheap Chinese goods to save the bankers.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-36877573
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Woodsey
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« Reply #5439 on: July 24, 2016, 09:14:45 PM »


re sports direct blog "the majority of jobs went to east European workers".   Surely they wouldn't have had a vote?  So what is he saying - people voted Brexit because Eastern Europeans were stealing their shitty jobs?  

Wouldnt the attitude be if eastern europeans didnt accept this shit (because they are treated similar worse in poland for a fraction of the pay) by not being here, sport direct would have to offer proper conditions or not have staff. The fact employers act this way is they think they can replace their staff at will, its an employers market. Reduce the labour pool and people are forced to compete for staff with terms and conditions as they arent as readily replaceable. Ofcourse alot of these beliefs are drven by people who turn up to the jobcentre key in 20 quid an hour labouring jobs.

but he says

Why should gloomy forecasts of a Brexit future worry you when you don’t even know if you’ll get paid next week?

If Sports Directs Labour practices are widespread, then he might have a point, but the people who he uses as an example in the main didn't vote.

The people who jobs they are 'stealing' though did....

You can speculate about that, but it's not what he says in the article.

No speculation required, here is the result in that constituency, 70% leave....

http://election.news.sky.com/referendum/bolsover-2727

For the 3rd time in his article he says that people who couldn't vote were voting out because they were being exploited.

I was referring to your comment...


re sports direct blog "the majority of jobs went to east European workers".   Surely they wouldn't have had a vote?  'So what is he saying - people voted Brexit because Eastern Europeans were stealing their shitty jobs?'

Yes they probably were...

A new employer opened a new business (the wareshouse) in town.  He effectively employed more immigrants than locals (his agents did, but I don't want to contemplicate it and it is pretty irrelevant).  Before the warehouse opened nobody that lived there had shitty jobs at this warehouse.  It seems to me that lots of locals were given shitty jobs they didn't have before.  How have the immigrants stolen people's shitty jobs?

An unknown amount of warehouse workers voted for brexit.  Tens of thousands of other people voted for brexit in that constituency.  It isn't clear how shitty all these people's jobs were, or even if they had one.  It isn't clear how many had ever even applied to, or would even want to, work at this warehouse.

I would say it is pretty likely that only a very small proportion of the brexiters in that constituency could be described as having had their jobs stolen by immigrants.

Not defending Sports Direct at all here. 

Because I know the area and don't live that far from it, it's an ex coal mining community with a lot of unemployment (Dennis Skinner's constituency). So yes I would rather British citizens have those jobs first and be off benefits. Every job not given to a British citizen is effectively a job 'stolen' if you wish to use that word.

I have no issue with immigration per se, never have and never will, but British citizens should gets those jobs first and immigrants can fill the shortfall. I accept people have different opinions on this but I will never change my mind specifically when talking about low value immigration who don't pay that much tax. A British person getting off benefits and paying a bit of tax in an area of high unemployment is better financially for the UK than an immigrant getting the job and paying a bit of tax.
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« Reply #5440 on: July 24, 2016, 10:34:21 PM »

Well they won't even have any shitty jobs when Hammond agrees to flood the country with cheap Chinese goods to save the bankers.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-36877573

So don't negotiate a free trade deal with China and the Government would have failed.

Negotiate one with China and we are bailing out the bankers.

In the doubleup world you would be criticising whatever the outcome.

Anyone with an ounce of common sense would agree that agreeing a free trade deal with one of the largest economies in the world which will continue to growth significantly compared to the developed western world is a sensible and pragmatic move.
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« Reply #5441 on: July 25, 2016, 04:18:51 AM »

Well they won't even have any shitty jobs when Hammond agrees to flood the country with cheap Chinese goods to save the bankers.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-36877573

So don't negotiate a free trade deal with China and the Government would have failed.

Negotiate one with China and we are bailing out the bankers.

In the doubleup world you would be criticising whatever the outcome.

Anyone with an ounce of common sense would agree that agreeing a free trade deal with one of the largest economies in the world which will continue to growth significantly compared to the developed western world is a sensible and pragmatic move.

It's not like our Country isn't already flooded with Chinese goods. May as well get the best deal we can
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« Reply #5442 on: July 25, 2016, 10:18:12 AM »

French facing accusations of triggering Dover chaos in ‘revenge’ for Brexit

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/07/23/hundreds-stranded-overnight-as-terror-fears-prompt-extra-securit/?WT.mc_id=e_DM143492&WT.tsrc=email&etype=Edi_FPM_New_AEM_Recipient&utm_source=email&utm_medium=Edi_FPM_New_AEM_Recipient_2016_07_24&utm_campaign=DM143492
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« Reply #5443 on: July 26, 2016, 01:42:56 AM »

Guess it is about time somebody defended the indefensible.

I used to be a big admirer, but think Frank Field has lost his mind.  He said this today of Philip Green

,” Field told BBC Radio 4’s Today programme. “I’ve always thought Maxwell meant to pay the money back, he was just going all over the place borrowing money to keep his companies going. When the music stopped he had no money.]“He’s much worse [than Maxwell],” Field told BBC Radio 4’s Today programme. “I’ve always thought Maxwell meant to pay the money back, he was just going all over the place borrowing money to keep his companies going. When the music stopped he had no money.

People can think bad things of Philip Green, He clearly could have found a better buyer, but BHS was a dinosaur and likely was going to go bust soon in anybody's hands.  I also very much think that he and others shouldn't be allowed to pay tax on UK profits in Monaco.  But these are side issues to the state of the BHS pension scheme. 

Maxwell flat out stole all the money in the mirror group pension schemes.  All Philip Green did was pay less into the pension schemes than he could have done.  To say that Green is worse than Maxwell is absolutely wrong and it is very misleading given every idiot in the press, and on twitter, seems to be under the impression that Green really did steal from the pension schemes.  But even if Green had paid twice as much as he did, the scheme would still be in a bad mess on wind up.  The scheme was not in a great state when he took over and much of the big deficit is caused by the different basis  pension schemes must use on windup.  FWIW it is likely a toss up if quantitative easing has done as much damage to the prospects of the BHS pension scheme as Philip Green.   

By contrast, the old British Steel scheme is teetering with a much bigger deficit and Frank Field is not in the press accusing those who ran that as worse than Maxwell.  Seriously, why not give those people the same treatment?  Or is it only OK to smear people in the press if they have 3 big f off yachts?

It is absolutely shambolic that a bunch of MPs don't listen to expert advice on something like this and instead choose to mouth off in the media their premeditated conclusions.  It is also pretty disgraceful that Frank Field was allowed to chair an inquiry after he slagged off Philip Green in the media before the inquiry had started.  Was it not apparent to anybody in power that there was absolutely no way he should have headed that inquiry after his statements to the press.  It is very important for people who are effectively acting as judges in these matters are shown to be impartial. 

Whilst this may well be a stain on capitalism, it is very much a stain on democracy that our MPs are able to act in this way.  The sooner the issue of how much Philip Green should pay in to the pension scheme is taken out of the MP's hands and put in the hands of an independent member of the judiciary the better. 
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« Reply #5444 on: July 26, 2016, 12:48:35 PM »

CON 43% (+4)
LAB 27% (-2)
LD 8% -1
UKIP 13% -1
GRN 4%

If other pollsters follow ICM’s 16% CON lead it could create greater clamour for May to call a general election

http://www2.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2016/07/26/icm-blow-for-corbyn-as-he-tries-to-hang-on-lab-now-16-behind-at-lowest-level-since-2009/
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