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Poll
Question: How will you vote on December 12th 2019
Conservative - 19 (33.9%)
Labour - 12 (21.4%)
SNP - 2 (3.6%)
Lib Dem - 8 (14.3%)
Brexit - 1 (1.8%)
Green - 6 (10.7%)
Other - 2 (3.6%)
Spoil - 0 (0%)
Not voting - 6 (10.7%)
Total Voters: 55

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Author Topic: The UK Politics and EU Referendum thread - merged  (Read 2180461 times)
teddybloat
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« Reply #17010 on: March 29, 2019, 08:08:32 PM »

I think we should just cancel it and get on with the rioting and destroying of constituency offices.

Get it all out of our system
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MANTIS01
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What kind of fuckery is this?


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« Reply #17011 on: March 29, 2019, 09:21:03 PM »

Amazing to think we bowl round the world attacking other regimes enforcing them to adopt our great democratic system

If we had a Kim Jung type dictator this would be done & dusted long time since

And i wouldn’t be dealing with these overcrowding issues.

Earlier today I was jostled in Waitrose by the deli counter and a trolley dinked my ankle in craft ales. Never used to be this bad, thoroughly perturbing darling.
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« Reply #17012 on: March 29, 2019, 09:40:12 PM »

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/newsbeat-47734673
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aaron1867
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« Reply #17013 on: March 29, 2019, 09:42:20 PM »

What happened at that Brexit rally today?

They abused black men & women

Numerous arrests

Cheered for Tommy Robinson.
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kukushkin88
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« Reply #17014 on: March 30, 2019, 12:38:17 PM »

Can somebody link me to an intelligent YouTube vid about freedom of movement pls

Something along the lines of I voted Leave primarily for improved immigration control but I didn’t know enough and now realise there would be even more freedom of movement after our exit

We’ve done the trade argument to death and wonder if we can put some focus on primary concerns many Leave voters held dear

How dare you raise the I word you racist.... Grin

Any chance that you might actually contribute something worthwhile to the debate some time?
Or do you save your thoughtful contributions for the Lodge?

It is an odd phenomenon, the internet troll.

Small (almost irrelevant) point of order: we can add what I do for a living to the long list of things that Woodsey is ignorant of.

May I ask what it is you do for a living?

If you have already said I've either missed it or forgotten.

I’m technically an engineer (BEng), although I also have a Geography degree combined with Psychology. I work for the government investigating and prosecuting (as an ‘expert’ (thin brag) witness) large scale pollution events involving big industry, mainly those that impact waterbodies but also to land and air. I spend  ~10-15% of my time in court or on court prep, 30% on what we call ‘incident response’ and the rest office based/desk study.

Woodsey will be delighted to know that we have brought prosecutions against Sewage Treatment Works and no doubt will again, so his efforts on the rancid curry/toilet might not be entirely wasted when it comes to making my life a certain (infinitesimally small) amount less pleasant.


Hugely off-topic, but presumably you are aware of this utterly fascinating case in the USA?


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flint_water_crisis

I was aware but strangely more to do with my interest in politics than a direct link to work, agreed it’s a fascinating story. We do a lot of work to ensure similar events don’t happen here.
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ripple11
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« Reply #17015 on: March 30, 2019, 06:10:21 PM »

So lets have a long extension with EU conditions and EU elections ......or a "no deal" if one of the EU 27 can't stand it any more! 

Both Tories and Labour agree with the WA and although not perfect, given where we are, it make sense to accept it so the country can move forward to the next more important phase !

If Labour agreed with the Withdrawal Agreement surely they'd have supported it today?  Somewhat puzzled as to how you can make this statement, based on the available evidence, as there's been absolutely no indication of this to date.



 They accept the WA.......they only want to change the PD.  I didn't hear a word against it yesterday from Labour MP's.

“We’ve been very clear, that it is done and dusted, we have never said we would seek to reopen the Withdrawal Agreement… We have to accept what the European Union is saying about the Withdrawal Agreement, and has consistently said for six months”.

John Healey Shadow Minister

“I certainly accept the proposition that the EU has said that the Withdrawal Agreement is not for reopening at any stage, and it has resisted that for month after month from the Government.”
Kier Starmer


“The Labour leader says that while the Prime Minister is focused on negotiating changes to the backstop, she needs to enshrine five changes to the Political Declaration in law to secure Labour support for a sensible deal that can bring the country together”.

Corbyn's letter to May...no mention of the WA.


They played party politics yesterday, instead of helping to move Brexit, which they support, forward at this crucial stage. Govt offered Parliament a vote on the PD as per amendment, and surely a softer brexit/PD is going to be indicated next week.

I see Denis Skinner abstained yesterday...my new hero  Smiley
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« Reply #17016 on: March 30, 2019, 07:03:31 PM »

Oh behave. As much as many of us are dismayed with labour these days to try and claim any of this is on them and they should have accepted the PMs blackmail attempt is ridiculous.
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kukushkin88
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« Reply #17017 on: March 30, 2019, 10:28:44 PM »

So lets have a long extension with EU conditions and EU elections ......or a "no deal" if one of the EU 27 can't stand it any more! 

Both Tories and Labour agree with the WA and although not perfect, given where we are, it make sense to accept it so the country can move forward to the next more important phase !

If Labour agreed with the Withdrawal Agreement surely they'd have supported it today?  Somewhat puzzled as to how you can make this statement, based on the available evidence, as there's been absolutely no indication of this to date.



 They accept the WA.......they only want to change the PD.  I didn't hear a word against it yesterday from Labour MP's.

“We’ve been very clear, that it is done and dusted, we have never said we would seek to reopen the Withdrawal Agreement… We have to accept what the European Union is saying about the Withdrawal Agreement, and has consistently said for six months”.

John Healey Shadow Minister

“I certainly accept the proposition that the EU has said that the Withdrawal Agreement is not for reopening at any stage, and it has resisted that for month after month from the Government.”
Kier Starmer


“The Labour leader says that while the Prime Minister is focused on negotiating changes to the backstop, she needs to enshrine five changes to the Political Declaration in law to secure Labour support for a sensible deal that can bring the country together”.

Corbyn's letter to May...no mention of the WA.


They played party politics yesterday, instead of helping to move Brexit, which they support, forward at this crucial stage. Govt offered Parliament a vote on the PD as per amendment, and surely a softer brexit/PD is going to be indicated next week.

I see Denis Skinner abstained yesterday...my new hero  Smiley


Dennis is a great guy obvs. Nothing in those quotes says anybody agrees to leaving under the WA.
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Sheriff Fatman
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« Reply #17018 on: March 30, 2019, 11:05:39 PM »

So lets have a long extension with EU conditions and EU elections ......or a "no deal" if one of the EU 27 can't stand it any more! 

Both Tories and Labour agree with the WA and although not perfect, given where we are, it make sense to accept it so the country can move forward to the next more important phase !

If Labour agreed with the Withdrawal Agreement surely they'd have supported it today?  Somewhat puzzled as to how you can make this statement, based on the available evidence, as there's been absolutely no indication of this to date.



 They accept the WA.......they only want to change the PD.  I didn't hear a word against it yesterday from Labour MP's.

“We’ve been very clear, that it is done and dusted, we have never said we would seek to reopen the Withdrawal Agreement… We have to accept what the European Union is saying about the Withdrawal Agreement, and has consistently said for six months”.

John Healey Shadow Minister

“I certainly accept the proposition that the EU has said that the Withdrawal Agreement is not for reopening at any stage, and it has resisted that for month after month from the Government.”
Kier Starmer


“The Labour leader says that while the Prime Minister is focused on negotiating changes to the backstop, she needs to enshrine five changes to the Political Declaration in law to secure Labour support for a sensible deal that can bring the country together”.

Corbyn's letter to May...no mention of the WA.


They played party politics yesterday, instead of helping to move Brexit, which they support, forward at this crucial stage. Govt offered Parliament a vote on the PD as per amendment, and surely a softer brexit/PD is going to be indicated next week.

I see Denis Skinner abstained yesterday...my new hero  Smiley


Dennis is a great guy obvs. Nothing in those quotes says anybody agrees to leaving under the WA.

kukushikin beat me to this point.  The quotes are just acknowledging what we've all know for months - that the WA isn't open for renegotiation within this package.  There's no implied agreement to it.

It's potentially available to be used, attached to any kind of agreed exit deal, and under Corbyn's 'unicorn' plan of negotiating an alternative deal within weeks would literally be the only way it could happen.  Given that it contains the backstop within it, Labour would arguably be the only party who could agree a deal which utilised it and obtained a majority in the HoC, as they wouldn't be reliant on the DUP votes to achieve this.  Even under that scenario, I don't see how the maths would work as it would need Labour plus all opposition parties and independents, less the DUP, plus a number of non-ERG Tories to vote for it.

Under a scenario where there's either a long delay or a revocation, and a change of negotiator from Theresa May, I could envisage the WA being amended.  If it was needed to support an exit with a permanent customs union, for example, there'd be no need for a backstop.
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« Reply #17019 on: March 30, 2019, 11:27:09 PM »

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=uuh8vk3-x60

For a new and unlikely Dennis fan. Please listen to it all.
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Sheriff Fatman
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« Reply #17020 on: April 01, 2019, 01:54:45 PM »

The Tory party is not typically the place you'd look to find common sense on a No Deal exit, but Rory Stewart's article on it is a reasonably balanced viewpoint on some of the fundamental issues with it, not least the fact that it most likely will still cost us the £39bn exit fee if we want a trade agreement with the EU afterwards.  This is consistent with information I've read from other sources, but seems to be conveniently overlooked by those pushing for no deal.

http://www.rorystewart.co.uk/no-deal/
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« Reply #17021 on: April 01, 2019, 03:11:35 PM »

Does Norway + or customs union allow free movement?
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« Reply #17022 on: April 01, 2019, 05:15:12 PM »

The Tory party is not typically the place you'd look to find common sense on a No Deal exit, but Rory Stewart's article on it is a reasonably balanced viewpoint on some of the fundamental issues with it, not least the fact that it most likely will still cost us the £39bn exit fee if we want a trade agreement with the EU afterwards.  This is consistent with information I've read from other sources, but seems to be conveniently overlooked by those pushing for no deal.

http://www.rorystewart.co.uk/no-deal/

This article (as with many others) seems to blame everything on the UK. Aren't the rest of the EU, or Brussels as it's also known at least partly to blame for not reaching a deal?

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« Reply #17023 on: April 01, 2019, 05:31:43 PM »

The Tory party is not typically the place you'd look to find common sense on a No Deal exit, but Rory Stewart's article on it is a reasonably balanced viewpoint on some of the fundamental issues with it, not least the fact that it most likely will still cost us the £39bn exit fee if we want a trade agreement with the EU afterwards.  This is consistent with information I've read from other sources, but seems to be conveniently overlooked by those pushing for no deal.

http://www.rorystewart.co.uk/no-deal/

This article (as with many others) seems to blame everything on the UK. Aren't the rest of the EU, or Brussels as it's also known at least partly to blame for not reaching a deal?



If I were trying to sell you my very ordinary shoes and you offered me £50 but I asked for 50000 who's fault would it be that we failed to deal?
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« Reply #17024 on: April 01, 2019, 05:33:19 PM »

Or what if I only asked for £150 but you had 27 pairs of shoes already?
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