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Poll
Question: How will you vote on December 12th 2019
Conservative - 19 (33.9%)
Labour - 12 (21.4%)
SNP - 2 (3.6%)
Lib Dem - 8 (14.3%)
Brexit - 1 (1.8%)
Green - 6 (10.7%)
Other - 2 (3.6%)
Spoil - 0 (0%)
Not voting - 6 (10.7%)
Total Voters: 55

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Author Topic: The UK Politics and EU Referendum thread - merged  (Read 2181211 times)
DropTheHammer
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« Reply #17940 on: June 07, 2019, 12:56:47 AM »

Now Brexit 1.3, Labour 4.0 
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aaron1867
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« Reply #17941 on: June 07, 2019, 03:19:05 AM »

If such thing as karma exsists then today we saw it. The Racist Party who was 1/6 before the vote counting have been beaten by 600+ votes. What happened?

Did they pick the wrong candidate? A millionaire apparently.

Did Ann Widdecombe's comments come back to bite them on their ass?

What was the campaigning like? According to the media Labour's on the ground campaigns was much better than th Racist's Party's.

You can read so much into it this result. They said that Nigel's party would get nearly 40% in European Elections, they got something like 31%. They was going to win the Peterborough seat comfortably, they didn't. You could read into it that it looks like there is more support for remain. Even comfortable leave area didn't want the Racist Party. You could argue that there is much more to the average voters domestically than just Brexit.

We will never really know what caused this shock result. But I really hope it was Ann Widdecome. Hateful and stupidity at the top of the Racist Party. Karma. 
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BigAdz
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« Reply #17942 on: June 07, 2019, 06:02:58 AM »

You are like that evil woman we have all seen on social media, shouting NAZI SCUM at the poor bloke stuck in a mob of socialist hate.
 You might even be her......

Just screaming the same boring idiotic dross time after time and doing your cause no good at all.

As it happens, I suggest that all we hear about from the completely bias free media, is that the Brexit Party  are running on a single point manifesto. It really doesn't inspire anyone, even a sensible Brexiteer to take that course of action.


That was probably their problem....
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« Reply #17943 on: June 07, 2019, 06:08:58 AM »

At these commemorations for DDay I'm surprised each time by the level of bravery, how young so many troops were and am filled with admiration for the British people. Makes the constant dismissal of old people as xenophobes, racists etc to suit people's identitarian nonsense all the more jarring.


But people like Aaron have no respect at all for the past and what people have done for them.

They have been brought up in a world, where despite screaming austerity at every corner, have never wanted for anything. They have never experienced the true fear of loved ones going to war, or losing family in such a way.

They have zero understanding or acceptance of anyone else's views but themselves and even after denying time after time they have called Brexiteers racists, then call it The Racist Party, and no doubt in 2 pages times claim again  they never called anyone a racist.

As you say. You see those dear old fellas, and read Aaron's comments and it sickens me the lack of respect and humility shown by so many in this country.



Wow, hilarious.

I’ve never mentioned anything to do with D-Day or anything to do with war. You’re just trying to score pathetic points. It has nothing to do with the Brexit vote.

You talk about respect, but you’re the one voting for the hateful campaigners at the top of Brexit. Not me. So, please, don’t use the word respect in any of your future posts, considering the people you are voting for & accepting their values.

Are you oblivious to the comments others have made on the post?

No one said I was wrong or stood up for you.

You haven't actually challenged anything I said, just given it your usual tirade of abuse, ignoring the content, as per.

Find me  Brexit supporter pushing over war veterans in crowds and talk about respect your ilk have for the true heroes of this country.....
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aaron1867
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« Reply #17944 on: June 07, 2019, 07:50:55 AM »

Adz. You genuinely amaze me and make me laugh.

You’re here with your insults again, this time I’m the kinda person who shouts terrible stuff at people and I’m a socialist, blah, blah, blah. No, I’m just making a point that I’ve actually backed up regarding what I believe to be a hateful party and rhetoric to get certain votes.

Secondly, you mention that I’ve not challenged your view points and just ignore them. That’s a bit hypocritical considering you just went into the lgbt thread not to debate, but instead look for an argument and not post anything of meaning. Then you go on about hateful comments again, but look at your posts recently. As for other people wanting to back me up, I’m not sure if you realise Adz, but people are a bit fed up of it.

I’ll keep on making the point about the Racist Party showing themselves up by promoting more hate. Perhaps I’ll post more about racist Brexit voters too, it doesn’t mean you are or aren’t one, but you obviously assume I think you are. You don’t need to bring it up every post you make or mention me in every post either.

If it helps I can send you a signed picture in the post.
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Pokerpops
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« Reply #17945 on: June 07, 2019, 07:52:14 AM »

If such a thing as karma exsists then today we saw it. The Racist Party who which was 1/6 before the vote counting count have been beaten by 600+ votes. What happened? What happened was that there were more votes cast for the Labour Party Candidate than any other individual candidate

Did they pick the wrong candidate? A millionaire apparently.

Did Ann Widdecombe's comments come back to bite them on their ass?

What was the campaigning like? According to the media Labour's on the ground campaigns was much better than the Racist's Party's. Clumsy use of apostrophes. Can you express this better to make it clearer?

You can read so much into it this result. They said that Nigel's party would get nearly 40% in European Elections, they got something like 31%. They was were going to win the Peterborough seat comfortably, they didn't. You could read into it that it looks like there is more support for remain. This is a massive stretch of the facts to support your own agenda. Even a comfortable leave area didn't want the Racist Party. You could argue that there is much more to the average voters domestically than just Brexit.

We will never really know what caused this shock result. Was it really a shock? But I really hope it was Ann Widdecome. Hatefulness and stupidity at the top of the Racist Party. Karma. 

I’ve done my best to correct your appalling grammar in the vain hope that it would make it easier to understand the point you are attempting to make. It didn’t really help.



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« Reply #17946 on: June 07, 2019, 08:17:50 AM »

Adz. You genuinely amaze me and make me laugh.

You’re here with your insults again, this time I’m the kinda person who shouts terrible stuff at people and I’m a socialist, blah, blah, blah. No, I’m just making a point that I’ve actually backed up regarding what I believe to be a hateful party and rhetoric to get certain votes.

Secondly, you mention that I’ve not challenged your view points and just ignore them. That’s a bit hypocritical considering you just went into the lgbt thread not to debate, but instead look for an argument and not post anything of meaning. Then you go on about hateful comments again, but look at your posts recently. As for other people wanting to back me up, I’m not sure if you realise Adz, but people are a bit fed up of it.

I’ll keep on making the point about the Racist Party showing themselves up by promoting more hate. Perhaps I’ll post more about racist Brexit voters too, it doesn’t mean you are or aren’t one, but you obviously assume I think you are. You don’t need to bring it up every post you make or mention me in every post either.

If it helps I can send you a signed picture in the post.

Aaron, your posts say nothing but the same thing.

You keep calling everything you dont agree with hateful. Name some things that have been done that are hateful. Detail please, because so far it is all rhetoric and name calling from you.

Have you the same footage of people in the Brexit Party shoving over old war veterans? Have you seen anyone from the Brexit party screeching in someones face? Have you even posted a speach or paragraph of words to explain this hatefulness. NO, No and No again, yet still you spout the same thing.

Finally, when I make a post about why your comments are a disgrace and several people say its a good post, I think its clear people are not on your side, about either the way you go about things, or just what you say.


Now, if you are true to form you will say, this is hilarious and I amaze you, I support a hateful party, refer to something on an unrelated thread and its not surprising as I support the Brexit party.

Go on prove me wrong and put up some FACTS that prove Brexiteers are hateful and so are their policies...
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aaron1867
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« Reply #17947 on: June 07, 2019, 08:40:18 AM »

Adz. You genuinely amaze me and make me laugh.

You’re here with your insults again, this time I’m the kinda person who shouts terrible stuff at people and I’m a socialist, blah, blah, blah. No, I’m just making a point that I’ve actually backed up regarding what I believe to be a hateful party and rhetoric to get certain votes.

Secondly, you mention that I’ve not challenged your view points and just ignore them. That’s a bit hypocritical considering you just went into the lgbt thread not to debate, but instead look for an argument and not post anything of meaning. Then you go on about hateful comments again, but look at your posts recently. As for other people wanting to back me up, I’m not sure if you realise Adz, but people are a bit fed up of it.

I’ll keep on making the point about the Racist Party showing themselves up by promoting more hate. Perhaps I’ll post more about racist Brexit voters too, it doesn’t mean you are or aren’t one, but you obviously assume I think you are. You don’t need to bring it up every post you make or mention me in every post either.

If it helps I can send you a signed picture in the post.

Aaron, your posts say nothing but the same thing.

You keep calling everything you dont agree with hateful. Name some things that have been done that are hateful. Detail please, because so far it is all rhetoric and name calling from you.

Have you the same footage of people in the Brexit Party shoving over old war veterans? Have you seen anyone from the Brexit party screeching in someones face? Have you even posted a speach or paragraph of words to explain this hatefulness. NO, No and No again, yet still you spout the same thing.

Finally, when I make a post about why your comments are a disgrace and several people say its a good post, I think its clear people are not on your side, about either the way you go about things, or just what you say.


Now, if you are true to form you will say, this is hilarious and I amaze you, I support a hateful party, refer to something on an unrelated thread and its not surprising as I support the Brexit party.

Go on prove me wrong and put up some FACTS that prove Brexiteers are hateful and so are their policies...

Of course they say the same thing, because I am trying to explain things to you over and over again.

I don't call anything I don't agree with hateful. I don't need to really add evidence, but I will repeat my comments about Ann Widdecombe. She was one again hating on the LGBT community and said perhaps science could prove a cure or get answers. Now that is hateful. I have mentioned this many times Adz.

And all this proof stuff? What? You've seen the people who are supporting the Brexit campaign, I have already posted this. As for people supporting you in this thread? I believe it is one/two people who agreed with you on your comments. It's quite clear that people would like us to stop trying to score points and debate, but you just can't stop talking about me & not the actual topic.
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BigAdz
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« Reply #17948 on: June 07, 2019, 08:52:38 AM »

Adz. You genuinely amaze me and make me laugh.

You’re here with your insults again, this time I’m the kinda person who shouts terrible stuff at people and I’m a socialist, blah, blah, blah. No, I’m just making a point that I’ve actually backed up regarding what I believe to be a hateful party and rhetoric to get certain votes.

Secondly, you mention that I’ve not challenged your view points and just ignore them. That’s a bit hypocritical considering you just went into the lgbt thread not to debate, but instead look for an argument and not post anything of meaning. Then you go on about hateful comments again, but look at your posts recently. As for other people wanting to back me up, I’m not sure if you realise Adz, but people are a bit fed up of it.

I’ll keep on making the point about the Racist Party showing themselves up by promoting more hate. Perhaps I’ll post more about racist Brexit voters too, it doesn’t mean you are or aren’t one, but you obviously assume I think you are. You don’t need to bring it up every post you make or mention me in every post either.

If it helps I can send you a signed picture in the post.

Aaron, your posts say nothing but the same thing.

You keep calling everything you dont agree with hateful. Name some things that have been done that are hateful. Detail please, because so far it is all rhetoric and name calling from you.

Have you the same footage of people in the Brexit Party shoving over old war veterans? Have you seen anyone from the Brexit party screeching in someones face? Have you even posted a speach or paragraph of words to explain this hatefulness. NO, No and No again, yet still you spout the same thing.

Finally, when I make a post about why your comments are a disgrace and several people say its a good post, I think its clear people are not on your side, about either the way you go about things, or just what you say.


Now, if you are true to form you will say, this is hilarious and I amaze you, I support a hateful party, refer to something on an unrelated thread and its not surprising as I support the Brexit party.

Go on prove me wrong and put up some FACTS that prove Brexiteers are hateful and so are their policies...

Of course they say the same thing, because I am trying to explain things to you over and over again.

I don't call anything I don't agree with hateful. I don't need to really add evidence, but I will repeat my comments about Ann Widdecombe. She was one again hating on the LGBT community and said perhaps science could prove a cure or get answers. Now that is hateful. I have mentioned this many times Adz.

And all this proof stuff? What? You've seen the people who are supporting the Brexit campaign, I have already posted this. As for people supporting you in this thread? I believe it is one/two people who agreed with you on your comments. It's quite clear that people would like us to stop trying to score points and debate, but you just can't stop talking about me & not the actual topic.


Highlighted says it all.

As for Widdicombe, its misguided, its not hateful. I doubt Widdicombe hates anything. That is just a pathetic reply if thats all you have got.
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« Reply #17949 on: June 07, 2019, 08:56:22 AM »

If it is quite clear people want to stop the personal stuff why is it carrying on?

Brexit aren't a racist party.  

More racists support them than other parties.  Anne Widdecombe has a history, so she should never have been invited to stand, but that doesn't define a party.

Farage has had his moments, but I'd be far more concerned with Aaron Banks and Farage's funding, lack of transparency and honesty than Farage's infrequent racism.  

It was good to see them lose.  

It was a strange result.  The betting was all over the place at 1am, albeit with small volumes.  The Conservatives vote didn't collapse.  Conservatives + Brexit Party > Labour + Lib Dems, so not a great victory for the left either.  Very mixed messages, so am sure they can all claim victory and not change as much as they should.
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« Reply #17950 on: June 07, 2019, 08:58:01 AM »

I suppose if you call that misguided, then you could call anything misguided. She has been attacking and victimising the LGBT all her life and that is why she is part of the Brexit Party, because they know people will vote for it.
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« Reply #17951 on: June 07, 2019, 09:11:18 AM »

If it is quite clear people want to stop the personal stuff why is it carrying on?

Brexit aren't a racist party.  

More racists support them than other parties.  Anne Widdecombe has a history, so she should never have been invited to stand, but that doesn't define a party.

Farage has had his moments, but I'd be far more concerned with Aaron Banks and Farage's funding, lack of transparency and honesty than Farage's infrequent racism.  

It was good to see them lose.  

It was a strange result.  The betting was all over the place at 1am, albeit with small volumes.  The Conservatives vote didn't collapse.  Conservatives + Brexit Party > Labour + Lib Dems, so not a great victory for the left either.  Very mixed messages, so am sure they can all claim victory and not change as much as they should.

The Brexit party are there to try and get Brexit done. But at the very same time the baggage that Nigel Farage carries come with him and that comes with a history of racism. I see the AW addition to the squad (rightly or wrongly) as purely something that they'll believe resonate with new or existing voters. If you put you put put the two together than that's why all the nicknames come up for the party and Brexit.

As for last nights vote, it seems more tactical than anything. I think it'll have been a realisation for people that the only way to stop BP was to vote Labour. But, I also might be pulling at straws mention Ann again. But is it possible that her comments in the days running upto this have been a significant reasoning too? Have more of the diverse Labour voters decided to vote in the week running up? Have LGBT Brexit Party voters not voted or swung to Labour? Or the ordinary man/woman who support LGBT decided to vote against too? There was 600 votes in it....
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« Reply #17952 on: June 07, 2019, 09:45:09 AM »

The headline from the Peterborough by-election is that the electorate slightly preferred an anti-Semitic left candidate to the Brexit party.  Neither of the two are particularly appealing options.

The results show some interesting splits which highlight just how much of a lottery a general election would be in trying to determine an outcome for Brexit (hence my view that only a 2nd referendum would achieve this).

There's the obvious Tory/Brexit Party split - a few more Tories going Brexit would have picked up the seat.

There's a less obvious minor party factor, which on this occasion was significant.  The fringe Brexit parties (UKIP - 400, English Democrats - 153 and the SDP -135), picked up 688 votes between them.  Labour won by 683 votes.

The Tory vote held up better than expected and the Lib Dem / Green vote wasn't significant, which is a contrast to the EU election trends.  Not sure quite where the Remain vote landed but presumably a significant part of it still voted Labour, or didn't turn out to vote.  At a national level that would suggest the Tory votes lost to the Brexit party would be more significant than the votes lost by Labour to remain parties, so would give Labour a better chance of a back door general election victory.

The dynamics would differ depending on which parties historically have a chance in individual seats, and this one has very much been a two-party seat through its history, but it's evidence that, no matter how badly run they are, Labour would be the beneficiaries of a GE when Brexit remains an unresolved matter.  That's a scary prospect.
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« Reply #17953 on: June 07, 2019, 10:01:48 AM »

The headline from the Peterborough by-election is that the electorate slightly preferred an anti-Semitic left candidate to the Brexit party.  Neither of the two are particularly appealing options.

The results show some interesting splits which highlight just how much of a lottery a general election would be in trying to determine an outcome for Brexit (hence my view that only a 2nd referendum would achieve this).

There's the obvious Tory/Brexit Party split - a few more Tories going Brexit would have picked up the seat.

There's a less obvious minor party factor, which on this occasion was significant.  The fringe Brexit parties (UKIP - 400, English Democrats - 153 and the SDP -135), picked up 688 votes between them.  Labour won by 683 votes.

The Tory vote held up better than expected and the Lib Dem / Green vote wasn't significant, which is a contrast to the EU election trends.  Not sure quite where the Remain vote landed but presumably a significant part of it still voted Labour, or didn't turn out to vote.  At a national level that would suggest the Tory votes lost to the Brexit party would be more significant than the votes lost by Labour to remain parties, so would give Labour a better chance of a back door general election victory.

The dynamics would differ depending on which parties historically have a chance in individual seats, and this one has very much been a two-party seat through its history, but it's evidence that, no matter how badly run they are, Labour would be the beneficiaries of a GE when Brexit remains an unresolved matter.  That's a scary prospect.

Do you think it might also be fair to say that people want to hear about more than just Brexit?

Labour went in without an opinion on Brexit versus a party whose only opinion is on Brexit.

Interesting that 61% of people voted Leave in Peterborough in 2016 & the Brexit party couldn't get over the line. I don't know anything about the history but it amazes me that the Conservatives & Labour got so many votes given what has gone on over the last 2 years.
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« Reply #17954 on: June 07, 2019, 11:42:48 AM »

The headline from the Peterborough by-election is that the electorate slightly preferred an anti-Semitic left candidate to the Brexit party.  Neither of the two are particularly appealing options.

The results show some interesting splits which highlight just how much of a lottery a general election would be in trying to determine an outcome for Brexit (hence my view that only a 2nd referendum would achieve this).

There's the obvious Tory/Brexit Party split - a few more Tories going Brexit would have picked up the seat.

There's a less obvious minor party factor, which on this occasion was significant.  The fringe Brexit parties (UKIP - 400, English Democrats - 153 and the SDP -135), picked up 688 votes between them.  Labour won by 683 votes.

The Tory vote held up better than expected and the Lib Dem / Green vote wasn't significant, which is a contrast to the EU election trends.  Not sure quite where the Remain vote landed but presumably a significant part of it still voted Labour, or didn't turn out to vote.  At a national level that would suggest the Tory votes lost to the Brexit party would be more significant than the votes lost by Labour to remain parties, so would give Labour a better chance of a back door general election victory.

The dynamics would differ depending on which parties historically have a chance in individual seats, and this one has very much been a two-party seat through its history, but it's evidence that, no matter how badly run they are, Labour would be the beneficiaries of a GE when Brexit remains an unresolved matter.  That's a scary prospect.

Do you think it might also be fair to say that people want to hear about more than just Brexit?

Labour went in without an opinion on Brexit versus a party whose only opinion is on Brexit.

Interesting that 61% of people voted Leave in Peterborough in 2016 & the Brexit party couldn't get over the line. I don't know anything about the history but it amazes me that the Conservatives & Labour got so many votes given what has gone on over the last 2 years.

It's exactly the reason why a GE is such an inappropriate way for Brexit to be resolved, contrary to what Labour are pushing for.  There are too many dynamics within a General Election to determine anything with clarity, particularly at a time where hung Parliaments are increasingly likely.  For example, the Corbynistas believe that Labour's GE2017 performance was a vindication of their left-wing agenda, but it's become increasingly clear over time that it was influenced heavily by remain voters trying to stop May achieving the huge majority she originally expected.  Now that Labour are looking in both directions on Brexit their support has evaporated from remain supporters, ironically at the same time as the Tory vote has evaporated from Leave voters.

Like it or not, Brexit is the overwhelmingly dominant political issue right now and until it gets resolved in one direction or another, Westminster elections are going to be influenced by it in a way which is difficult to predict.
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