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Poll
Question: How will you vote on December 12th 2019
Conservative - 19 (33.9%)
Labour - 12 (21.4%)
SNP - 2 (3.6%)
Lib Dem - 8 (14.3%)
Brexit - 1 (1.8%)
Green - 6 (10.7%)
Other - 2 (3.6%)
Spoil - 0 (0%)
Not voting - 6 (10.7%)
Total Voters: 55

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Author Topic: The UK Politics and EU Referendum thread - merged  (Read 2180214 times)
aaron1867
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« Reply #18585 on: July 03, 2019, 02:33:30 AM »

It's madness to think where we are now after seeing what's coming out from Boris, Jeremy and Phillip Hammond.

Hunt saying he'd sacrifice jobs, businesses and the union to get Brexit over the line. Boris been his blustery self, offering tax decreases, but yet it seems clearly unsustainable. Hammond clearly taking them both down a peg or two by pointing out the reality. no deal would cost £90bn and essentially no money for said tax cuts

It's insane to think that we are left in this position promises that can't be kept and the risky business attached to getting Brexit over the line.

It's prety clear that this Brexit thing is not a good idea, but we shall keep on down that same bloody road because Dave from Grimsby voted for it and his 30 days have run out to get his refund on his rule Britannia onesie. 

 
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« Reply #18586 on: July 03, 2019, 03:50:39 AM »

They all talking stone cold nonsense but I'm slightly less offended by the pair of them given the job they'll be tasked with is going to be pretty dam impossible. They'd both make horrible PM's i'm sure off it, but picking a leader from the Tory leadership race is basically the same as picking an STD, I mean fucking hell are we really here.

Lets just get Boris in there hope whoever advises him advises him well and we can ping 2 years of anything better than a total bloodbath and maybe someone more capable will finally come along who we can actually enjoy being PM, with a fait hope they might be able to do a good job. Blair and Cameron weren't especially popular but at least SOME people liked them!
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« Reply #18587 on: July 03, 2019, 05:40:38 AM »

They all talking stone cold nonsense but I'm slightly less offended by the pair of them given the job they'll be tasked with is going to be pretty dam impossible. They'd both make horrible PM's i'm sure off it, but picking a leader from the Tory leadership race is basically the same as picking an STD, I mean fucking hell are we really here.

Lets just get Boris in there hope whoever advises him advises him well and we can ping 2 years of anything better than a total bloodbath and maybe someone more capable will finally come along who we can actually enjoy being PM, with a fait hope they might be able to do a good job. Blair and Cameron weren't especially popular but at least SOME people liked them!


Lest we forget, it was Cameron’s shocking misjudgement in allowing a referendum on our membership of the EU that brought us to the sorry state we are now in.

Blair? 
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aaron1867
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« Reply #18588 on: July 03, 2019, 06:06:07 AM »

Imagine you have some bloke with a racist narrative who forever makes gaffes and is trying to negotiate with some organisation. Let's call this bloke Boris, backed up with a legion of similar minded folk who don't like anyone who isn't English.

This Boris bloke has to negotiate with an organisation, let's call them Example Uno (let's call them EU for short). This Boris bloke has for three years been criticising the deal on the table by previous boss and thinks he can get a better deal. This is despite this EU organisation saying there is no more negotiation. But to make things worse, in the last few years, in the background, Boris has been sending threats to this EU place. He says he won't give them any more money if they don't do a deal with him. This EU place has been aware of that for sometime & obviously still choose not to negotiate with this bloke.

Boris continues for weeks to speak with EU over a period of weeks and nothing is to be seen. He had promised his adoring fans, who are made up of Madness fans, EDL and bus drivers that if they can't do a deal, then they'll go it alone against the world with no deal. But sadly, his no-deal thing can never really work, because it doesn't happen to have a majority among his shareholders & is unable to suspend his shareholders from being allowed to vote.

In what is seen as last throw of dice by Boris & after throwing a few tea cups at his wife, he combs his hair, puts a nice shirt on and heads out in front of millions of people to call for a new mandate, let's call this a general election.

The General election comes and folk see this bloke at the head of an organisation (let's call them Tories) who has failed to deliver on getting a deal and also the dramatic no-deal. The organisation are wiped out from there 300 or so stakeholders to 70. The other organisations promising deals, no deal and same old are picking up seats. The organisation who really want to hurt the EU and are full of middle aged white folk are going to do well. White? Middle aged? old fashioned? Let's call them the Brexit organisation. They pick up around 100 seats, but struggle with anymore because they only really have one policy. In the background are other organisations. One is pretty centre and wants the same old (let's call them liberals), the other is an organisation based in Scotland (let's call them the Scottish Party) & the other organisation isn't quite sure what it is or wants, but likes the colour red (let's call them The Reds. In all of this and because they more than one plan to their organisation pick up lots of shareholders. The Scottish Party, Liberals and Reds have ended up with 350+ shareholders.

After getting a majority between them and not wanting a weaker deal than currently & most certainly don't want no deal, they choose to go back to the same old. The World is saved.

Boris gets a job at Daily Star. 
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MANTIS01
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« Reply #18589 on: July 03, 2019, 06:50:03 AM »

I’ve always found bus drivers to be hateful folk
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« Reply #18590 on: July 03, 2019, 07:04:49 AM »

They all talking stone cold nonsense but I'm slightly less offended by the pair of them given the job they'll be tasked with is going to be pretty dam impossible. They'd both make horrible PM's i'm sure off it, but picking a leader from the Tory leadership race is basically the same as picking an STD, I mean fucking hell are we really here.

Lets just get Boris in there hope whoever advises him advises him well and we can ping 2 years of anything better than a total bloodbath and maybe someone more capable will finally come along who we can actually enjoy being PM, with a fait hope they might be able to do a good job. Blair and Cameron weren't especially popular but at least SOME people liked them!


Lest we forget, it was Cameron’s shocking misjudgement in allowing a referendum on our membership of the EU that brought us to the sorry state we are now in.

Blair? 

Could you give some examples of what you think was so bad about Blair? I certainly wasn’t a fan at the time and not a fan of the man since but as a (slightly) right of centre PM who ran a government with at least some social responsibility, his record just stacks up well against everyone else’s.
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« Reply #18591 on: July 03, 2019, 07:20:04 AM »

They all talking stone cold nonsense but I'm slightly less offended by the pair of them given the job they'll be tasked with is going to be pretty dam impossible. They'd both make horrible PM's i'm sure off it, but picking a leader from the Tory leadership race is basically the same as picking an STD, I mean fucking hell are we really here.

Lets just get Boris in there hope whoever advises him advises him well and we can ping 2 years of anything better than a total bloodbath and maybe someone more capable will finally come along who we can actually enjoy being PM, with a fait hope they might be able to do a good job. Blair and Cameron weren't especially popular but at least SOME people liked them!


Lest we forget, it was Cameron’s shocking misjudgement in allowing a referendum on our membership of the EU that brought us to the sorry state we are now in.

Blair? 

Could you give some examples of what you think was so bad about Blair? I certainly wasn’t a fan at the time and not a fan of the man since but as a (slightly) right of centre PM who ran a government with at least some social responsibility, his record just stacks up well against everyone else’s.

The devil appeared to Tony Blair in 1997 and said “Listen Tony, I can make sure you win this election and the next two beyond it. You will be the longest serving Labour PM ever. All you have to do is give me your soul and the souls of your children.”
Tony thought for a second, “My soul, and the souls of my children?”
“Yes”
“I get to win this election and the next two in return?”
“Yes”
“What’s the catch?”

He lacked any identifiable beliefs or political values. Gave us Government by opinion poll and focus group and his attempts at appeasing both sides of the political divide created problems that still remain. (PFI schools in Scotland for instance). and let’s not mention tobacco sponsorship, cash for honours, the war...
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kukushkin88
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« Reply #18592 on: July 03, 2019, 07:41:35 AM »

They all talking stone cold nonsense but I'm slightly less offended by the pair of them given the job they'll be tasked with is going to be pretty dam impossible. They'd both make horrible PM's i'm sure off it, but picking a leader from the Tory leadership race is basically the same as picking an STD, I mean fucking hell are we really here.

Lets just get Boris in there hope whoever advises him advises him well and we can ping 2 years of anything better than a total bloodbath and maybe someone more capable will finally come along who we can actually enjoy being PM, with a fait hope they might be able to do a good job. Blair and Cameron weren't especially popular but at least SOME people liked them!


Lest we forget, it was Cameron’s shocking misjudgement in allowing a referendum on our membership of the EU that brought us to the sorry state we are now in.

Blair? 

Could you give some examples of what you think was so bad about Blair? I certainly wasn’t a fan at the time and not a fan of the man since but as a (slightly) right of centre PM who ran a government with at least some social responsibility, his record just stacks up well against everyone else’s.

The devil appeared to Tony Blair in 1997 and said “Listen Tony, I can make sure you win this election and the next two beyond it. You will be the longest serving Labour PM ever. All you have to do is give me your soul and the souls of your children.”
Tony thought for a second, “My soul, and the souls of my children?”
“Yes”
“I get to win this election and the next two in return?”
“Yes”
“What’s the catch?”

He lacked any identifiable beliefs or political values. Gave us Government by opinion poll and focus group and his attempts at appeasing both sides of the political divide created problems that still remain. (PFI schools in Scotland for instance). and let’s not mention tobacco sponsorship, cash for honours, the war...

Him being godfather to Murdoch’s kid is certainly an eye opener.

I can’t see how “appeasing” is a better word to describe the situation than ‘representing’. A government that seeks to represent as many people as possible from both sides of the divide sounds OK to me.

Honours has been a problem for every PM in my lifetime, I can’t see evidence he’s worse. It’s a system that desperately needs reform.

The war is a big one and could merit hours of discussion, I’ll post thoughts as when I can.

PFI - agreed, a bad thing imo.

I guess I’m not that up to speed on tobacco sponsorship issues, I’ll take a look.
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« Reply #18593 on: July 03, 2019, 08:32:04 AM »

A government representing what the country wants is a good thing to me, sounds a good thing to me.........hmmm, yet you whinge so much about Brexit.

Didn't see you find too much to come back about regards the wonderful Mr Blair either.......
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kukushkin88
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« Reply #18594 on: July 03, 2019, 08:50:16 AM »

A government representing what the country wants is a good thing to me, sounds a good thing to me.........hmmm, yet you whinge so much about Brexit.

Didn't see you find too much to come back about regards the wonderful Mr Blair either.......

It’s just relentlessly pathetic. Is your understanding of things this poor in the world outside of this thread? Life must be tough.

The 2nd sentence is just trolling I assume? I’ll answer it though, just in case....I’d expect a not very bright dog to better understand my view of Blair.
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« Reply #18595 on: July 03, 2019, 09:06:52 AM »

"The Chancellor is warning a disorderly no-deal Brexit could deliver a £90bn hit to the economy"

Hammond knows he is not going to be chancellor under Boris or Hunt and is heading to the backbenches

Still, his statements here plus the rather eye-opening idea for a current chancellor to say he would vote with opposition parties to stop no deal are interesting

https://www.channel4.com/news/hammond-warns-disorderly-no-deal-brexit-will-cost-uk-90bn
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« Reply #18596 on: July 03, 2019, 09:07:48 AM »

and here is analysis about him potentially voting with the opposition

https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/philip-hammond-may-vote-with-labour-to-stop-no-deal-brexit_uk_5d1b60ede4b03d61164261b1
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« Reply #18597 on: July 03, 2019, 09:09:24 AM »

what they are saying now to win a membership is not what they will need to govern a country with virtually no parliamentary majority, let alone win a Ge

as Sylvester reports
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« Reply #18598 on: July 03, 2019, 09:12:13 AM »

Who voted Brexit Party in 2019?

Demographics of the Brexit Party vote 

Source: forthcoming work w/Clarke, Stewart & Whiteley

cliffs:No social class or gender divide any more among committed Brexit voters. Age now the biggest factor, the older you are the more likely, plus income, the richer you are the less likely.
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« Reply #18599 on: July 03, 2019, 09:15:47 AM »

intel from the MD of Eurasia group

Senior Tories say negotiated exit unlikely after Hunt narrowed differences between him & Boris over no-deal - which they now judge increasingly likely. Team Boris privately worried by Hunt move and have gone personal against him. Saying no guarantee from Hunt that UK will leave on 31 Oct; impossible to prep for no-deal w/out fixed deadline; Hunt would repeat “disaster” of May’s two delays. Some signs Tory members switching to Hunt after seeing him at hustings. Boris still ahead but Hunt gone up gear before members receive ballot papers Sat

EU side also very clear as to how they see things. As one senior EU official says, "the crazier the UK gets - withholding the money, calling the entire WA into question - the easier it gets for the EU to just say No."
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