The UK Politics and EU Referendum thread - merged

[TightEnd]

they are US led sanctions are they not?

and the mooted response to the current crisis is...more UK sanctions...anyway i have a corker coming

[TightEnd]

What happens when political bluster meets the reality of a no-deal Brexit.

subtitle (but, kippers!)

Shipman in the times

[kukushkin88]

Just uncomfortable with how the rhetoric for remain continues to be presented

That picture of Boris, Mad, Stupid, People deciding is like children performing brain surgery with crayons etc

If we look back at my previous point, when did the people ever opt into this hugely complex situation with every implication clearly presented? We have been hoodwinked into an ever evolving German influenced system that encroaches into any semblance of the original agreement. The first time we get a say we express our will and it’s insult after insults. All very moody.

An equally significant development is a British tanker is now seized because we were upholding EU sanctions. Where is the super supportive rhetoric delivered with equal passion? Perhaps outside of EU we won’t have the motivation or funding to continue playing global sheriff. Might make UK a safer place for our people.

Surely the ball is in Boris’s court on this. If he (and you) want to people to stop pointing out that he is an incredibly useless, inept and ignorant c***, then he needs to do and say different things. The guys only redeeming feature is that he’s so shit at everything (including lying) that watching him is funny. The British law on kippers that he got confused about and you so enjoyed is a prime example.

Also worth noting that all the things we get hoodwinked in to doing benefit the country.

[kukushkin88]

Also the fact that Boris is an extravagantly shit human being has nothing to do with leave or remain.

[Archer]

I find the obsession with Boris bus intriguing. There has been a constant failing of British politicians to be honest about what membership involves since 1973. The Foreign Office feely admit that “ultimately misleading impressions” were given to voters since the get go. That is never a sustainable position in any open democracy. I mean Ted Heath’s 1971 White Paper on entry had promised no “erosion of essential national sovereignty” and this was quite untrue because European law did and does override British law, increasingly so as each year goes by. So in this constant hailstorm of bullshit over like 45yrs we keep picking out Boris bus as the key event, oh ok. 

The Maastricht treaty which created the European Union paved the way for the euro and the social chapter which extended Brussels powers into loads of new areas. We won opt-outs from both these things but it sowed the seeds for today’s arguments. Sure British people joined, and were happy to join, a common market but we didn't sign up to a social chapter, a single currency or the super state as we see today, we don't share those aspirations and never have. God bless Maggie for standing up to the Delors vision of euro project, a social-democratic state through the back door when it would never be voted in through the British electorate system. So we see this common market we were originally sold morph into single currency, euro army, euro laws, free movement, super state etc and we would all be satisfied with the constant wholesale changes if it wasn't for that dratted boris bus. 

Politicians have been known to tell porkies horror... and I also find the repetition of the Boris bus facts tiresome within the context of history and the big picture.

Just a few points though:

.views from both sides about sovereignty were widely aired in the 1975 referendum debate.  Enoch Powell and Tony Benn spring to mind.

.the Foreign Office haven’t freely admitted “misleading impressions” and presumably you are just quoting the view of 1 individual who was with the Foreign Office.

.true, we didn’t sign up for a single currency or, initially, the social chapter. We did have aspirations for the latter and I voted for it in 1997. Blair also talked about the single currency and favoured it if the economic conditions were right.

.you make it sound as if Delors and the EU were pushing for a social-democratic state via the back door. That wasn’t the case.  He was very much through the front door selling and winning over Labour.

[MANTIS01]

Just uncomfortable with how the rhetoric for remain continues to be presented

That picture of Boris, Mad, Stupid, People deciding is like children performing brain surgery with crayons etc

If we look back at my previous point, when did the people ever opt into this hugely complex situation with every implication clearly presented? We have been hoodwinked into an ever evolving German influenced system that encroaches into any semblance of the original agreement. The first time we get a say we express our will and it’s insult after insults. All very moody.

An equally significant development is a British tanker is now seized because we were upholding EU sanctions. Where is the super supportive rhetoric delivered with equal passion? Perhaps outside of EU we won’t have the motivation or funding to continue playing global sheriff. Might make UK a safer place for our people.

Surely the ball is in Boris’s court on this. If he (and you) want to people to stop pointing out that he is an incredibly useless, inept and ignorant c***, then he needs to do and say different things. The guys only redeeming feature is that he’s so shit at everything (including lying) that watching him is funny. The British law on kippers that he got confused about and you so enjoyed is a prime example.

Also worth noting that all the things we get hoodwinked in to doing benefit the country.

Did you have an opportunity to vote for Boris as your new PM? Would you have voted for him given the chance?

We know the answers are definitely NO and NO.

Look how terribly unhappy you are about that.

What if you now find out that Boris can’t be changed at any point in the future? Things have changed in the background that mean it’s all too complicated and expensive to change him.

Wonder how unhappy you would feel then. Perhaps it would offer some insight into how Leave voters feel.

Oh and because you expressed that frustration after being invited to vote on the subject you were labelled a stupid simpleton racist.

[MANTIS01]

Oh and when you and the majority voted for Boris to be replaced you were told he was staying anyway

[TightEnd]

Just uncomfortable with how the rhetoric for remain continues to be presented

That picture of Boris, Mad, Stupid, People deciding is like children performing brain surgery with crayons etc

If we look back at my previous point, when did the people ever opt into this hugely complex situation with every implication clearly presented? We have been hoodwinked into an ever evolving German influenced system that encroaches into any semblance of the original agreement. The first time we get a say we express our will and it’s insult after insults. All very moody.

An equally significant development is a British tanker is now seized because we were upholding EU sanctions. Where is the super supportive rhetoric delivered with equal passion? Perhaps outside of EU we won’t have the motivation or funding to continue playing global sheriff. Might make UK a safer place for our people.

Surely the ball is in Boris’s court on this. If he (and you) want to people to stop pointing out that he is an incredibly useless, inept and ignorant c***, then he needs to do and say different things. The guys only redeeming feature is that he’s so shit at everything (including lying) that watching him is funny. The British law on kippers that he got confused about and you so enjoyed is a prime example.

Also worth noting that all the things we get hoodwinked in to doing benefit the country.

Did you have an opportunity to vote for Boris as your new PM? Would you have voted for him given the chance?

We know the answers are definitely NO and NO.

Look how terribly unhappy you are about that.

What if you now find out that Boris can’t be changed at any point in the future? Things have changed in the background that mean it’s all too complicated and expensive to change him.

Wonder how unhappy you would feel then. Perhaps it would offer some insight into how Leave voters feel.

Oh and because you expressed that frustration after being invited to vote on the subject you were labelled a stupid simpleton racist.

If leavers in parliament had voted the deal through we would be out now

Better keep repeating it until it sinks in. Change was perfectly possible but the ERG wanted perfect change, which isn't how negotiated compromises work.

[MANTIS01]

If you accept that preparations were not in place for No Deal and Theresa May + team were not the most proficient, skilled negotiators you accept the deal was sub-optimal. Continuing to repeat we could’ve accepted a sub-optimal deal until it sinks in is unnecessary. Agreed we could’ve accepted a sub-optimal deal.

[TightEnd]

Sub optimal or not, better than a no deal outcome. Of course if it happens the hard line leavers will blame May, the EU and remainers all the while deflecting from it being self inflicted.

The intensification of their blame culture, refusing to accept responsibility for voting leave with no plan and then playing victim, should be throughly resisted from these charlatans as and when it accelerates.

[DungBeetle]

Just uncomfortable with how the rhetoric for remain continues to be presented

That picture of Boris, Mad, Stupid, People deciding is like children performing brain surgery with crayons etc

If we look back at my previous point, when did the people ever opt into this hugely complex situation with every implication clearly presented? We have been hoodwinked into an ever evolving German influenced system that encroaches into any semblance of the original agreement. The first time we get a say we express our will and it’s insult after insults. All very moody.

An equally significant development is a British tanker is now seized because we were upholding EU sanctions. Where is the super supportive rhetoric delivered with equal passion? Perhaps outside of EU we won’t have the motivation or funding to continue playing global sheriff. Might make UK a safer place for our people.

Surely the ball is in Boris’s court on this. If he (and you) want to people to stop pointing out that he is an incredibly useless, inept and ignorant c***, then he needs to do and say different things. The guys only redeeming feature is that he’s so shit at everything (including lying) that watching him is funny. The British law on kippers that he got confused about and you so enjoyed is a prime example.

Also worth noting that all the things we get hoodwinked in to doing benefit the country.

Is this language really necessary to make your point? 

[aaron1867]

Also the fact that Boris is an extravagantly shit human being has nothing to do with leave or remain.

Think it has

Ultimately more “shit humans” voted for leave. The racists & stupids.

[Marky147]

Also the fact that Boris is an extravagantly shit human being has nothing to do with leave or remain.

Think it has

Ultimately more “shit humans” voted for leave. The racists & stupids.

You two are getting like a double act.

Wasn't Boris in the remain camp for a while, when it suited his agenda?

[Pokerpops]

Also the fact that Boris is an extravagantly shit human being has nothing to do with leave or remain.

Think it has

Ultimately more “shit humans” voted for leave. The racists & stupids.

What did the anti-semites vote for?

[horseplayer]

Also the fact that Boris is an extravagantly shit human being has nothing to do with leave or remain.

Think it has

Ultimately more “shit humans” voted for leave. The racists & stupids.

What did the anti-semites vote for?

great post