Just been catching up with the thread, following aaron's post....

Haven't laughed so hard since I last wet my pants.

Thanks all.

Ah, so you want to laugh at someones circumtance? In which one person is vulnerable and can't get volunteers and/or foods to suit dietary needs?

It must take a lot for you to wish at someones circumstance when they are highly vulnerable.

If you have kids, they have must be so prod of you.

I think you've missed the point. Again.

I haven't missed the point. You are making fun at he vulnerable.

Your children must be so proud.

Just been catching up with the thread, following aaron's post....

Haven't laughed so hard since I last wet my pants.

Thanks all.

Ah, so you want to laugh at someones circumtance? In which one person is vulnerable and can't get volunteers and/or foods to suit dietary needs?

It must take a lot for you to wish at someones circumstance when they are highly vulnerable.

If you have kids, they have must be so prod of you.

Of course I know there are negatives, but I don't think people realise the help just isn't here yet.

Go on then, I'll take the sweetcorn and swim with it.

You say all this aaron but then take more trips to Iceland in a week than Bjork and Kerry Katona combined?

How often do you go to do convenience shopping Chompy? In a week, even in the current circumstance? Does your bread, milk and other essentials last you more than a week? I am pretty sure bread last 3 days max.

Perhap I have to go and pick up prescriptions too. Who knew?

What part of stay in for 12 weeks don't you get?

All of the help by the government has been useful, but it simply is too slow and still needs work.

Help for the self employed - It's coming, but not till June

Furlough - It's coming, but the companies still have to pay

Loans for business - It's coming, but you have to put your house up

Vulnerable - It's coming, but doesn't understand your medical & dietary needs

My point is that this social distancing stuff still isn't working. People aren't taking no notice. You can still become ill even if you're not classed as vulnerable. Some people if you fall into the vulnerable category are feeling the same

Of course I know there are negatives, but I don't think people realise the help just isn't here yet.

Go on then, I'll take the sweetcorn and swim with it.

You say all this aaron but then take more trips to Iceland in a week than Bjork and Kerry Katona combined?

How often do you go to do convenience shopping Chompy? In a week, even in the current circumstance? Does your bread, milk and other essentials last you more than a week? I am pretty sure bread last 3 days max.

Perhap I have to go and pick up prescriptions too. Who knew?

Of course I know there are negatives, but I don't think people realise the help just isn't here yet.

I am going a bit off topic here, but my frustration is completely going to go OTT with people when they simply aren't taking no notice of these measures. It's not just the people going to parks like we've seen on the news, it's the everyday going to the shop/exercising routines where people are so lazy to wait.

A trip to the local convenience - Just over an hour ago I popped to the shop, needed the usual bread and milk. The shop isn't huge, but only had three folk in anyway. I am customer number two in the door and go to pick the bread up. Of course, the older gentlemen behind me couldn't wait for me to pick the bread up and just went past as normal. Him waiting for me was just a few seconds.

A trip to Iceland - Twice in the last week I've gone to Iceland. I know that the supermarket is hardly going to be full of the most intelligent, but I always hoped this social distancing would drill it into people. Nope, people just can't wait. An elderly couple stood bang next to me to pick up some potatoes then did it again. To add insult to injury, I got to the till and there I was faced with 5 tills, only 2 open. But guess which two of the tills was open? The tills bang next to each other. The staff was barely 2m apart and I certainly was within a metre.

Tesco - I don't know if every Tesco is the same, but they've closed the end of the aisles, that means you get to the end of one aisle, and then have to go back up it to go to the next one. That means that you're still passing folk in that aisle because you're having to back on yourself or people have to come to the bottom of aisle to search, whilst you're still there because you can't go into the next aisle.

I am of course going to contradict myself here. But last week I received the letter to tell me that I fall into the highly vulnerable category of 1.5, it was pretty surprising. The letter suggests 12 weeks of not leaving the house. I can't do that, it's impossible. I'm keeping to the social distancing measures myself, which includes having to cross roads to avoid each other. But the problem is that some people aren't taking no notice, over what? A couple of seconds?

I get the feeling that this is going to take a very long time.

Liverpool have put their staff on Furlough along with other Premier League clubs. But the outrage was clear to see across social media. I don't understand how folk can be annoyed about it? British Airways, will soon be putting 35,000 of their staff on it too.

....I know a small family business (probably 20+ employees) and one of the employees is on a round the world trip of some sort. He's on good terms with the business and the two families are very close. The owner has told me he is going to pay him, even though he has left. I think this will happen quite a lot or of something similar if hey left pretty soon.
...

I assume this would work if they haven't already told HMRC that they've left.

It's pretty generous of the company to pay 20% of his wages after he left, but I'm guessing considering the current situation that extra money might be invaluable.

If it's just fraud for fraud's sake then it's weirdly generous for them to pay 20% of his wages so that he can benefit.

I'm pretty sure a lot of people might try to defraud the system, but I would expect most of them would be trying to make a profit for themselves rather than for their (ex) employees.

But are we saying he has left the business on leave for a trip or left the business end of employment?

If he is still being paid whilst on his round the world trip then his employer continuing to pay him using the scheme isn't really even fraud.

Some people don't have to actually work to be employed and receive a salary.....

Just ask Mr Russell 

He's left the business.

I think some folk are taking my posts out of context and trying to be a bit patronising. I know how this whole works, apart from the self-employed stuff.

I am essentially saying that the systems are open to abuse by a very small minority. The meetings I have been in have come to the conclusion that it will happen. Businesses and ministers have said the same. Who'd have thought that someone who didn't live at Grenfell Tower could get tens of thousands?

I know a small family business (probably 20+ employees) and one of the employees is on a round the world trip of some sort. He's on good terms with the business and the two families are very close. The owner has told me he is going to pay him, even though he has left. I think this will happen quite a lot or of something similar if hey left pretty soon.

As for these business loans, I think this is where most of the abuse will come from. Any business, if they so wish, can apply and many will be able to put through a good case for a loan. As stated on TV people will question how businesses that are likely to go under should be allowed the loan, because they'll go under anyway. Some will take it and off into the sunset. I know folk aren't just turning up and getting loans and salaries paid.

As for rents as I mentioned, it was poorly put by me, but I didn't know how to explain it. But the tenants don't think that they should be profiting at such time.   

I know tonight was the night where we was all supposed to slap the NHS, but also time to see that folk are still putting their personal greed first too.

Yesterday, I had seen that Jeremy Joseph, owner of nightclub brand G-A-Y, who has 4 nightclubs had posted on Twitter to bemoan his landlords. G-A-Y have a lot of money in the bank, they have the largest and most popular nightclub in the UK.

Jeremy had offered to pay all of his landlords the cost price of each venue. He didn't ask for a payment holiday, despite 200 staff. He just politely asked for rents to be at cost priced, instead of the £402k quaterly amount. They said no and offered him the holiday. By time that holiday is over, they'll owe £800k.

It's essentially a small business. In all of this kind stuff, there's plenty of horrid greed going about too.

These new systems for business, workers and self employed are going to be open to so much abuse.

Businesses could essentially claim for workers who are leaving, apply for loans for no reason and/or even if they're going under anyway.

Self employed who are just getting by on £20k's or smaller could potentially play the system to get more money

The only good thing for businesses that need expansion loans, is that they'll never get a better chance of a loan at better rates

This will end up being similar to what people did after Grenfell, applying for money they shouldn't have got. In a year to come will be hundreds of cases of fraud

Businesses can't claim for workers without actually paying them. Everything is done through HMRC online and there's no way of fiddling it. We have to pay our employees first then claim it back. When we pay them we have to submit to HMRC so they know exactly what's happened. The only possible fiddle is to claim the money whilst someone is still working and therefore earning the Company an income. Very dangerous fraud game that one though and unlikely to happen in the majority of Companies

Businesses can't ask for loans without reason at all. If they could I would go out and borrow £5M tomorrow then just stick it in the bank earning 1% for a year and pocket the £50k interest. Applications are done through bank and you actually have to need it to borrow it. Pretty much zero chance of getting the loan for an expansion programme from what I know. It's a business interruption loan and they assess it as such.

Self employed have to base it on previous tax returns. Again no way of fiddling it as the submissions have already been made. The only ones who can fiddle it are those who are late submitting and have been given an extra month. You can guarantee that their expenses will reduce to nothing so that their earnings are maximised.

I don't think you realise there are lots of loopholes that potential fraudsters could get through. You're right that most people and businesses won't, but the small fry will see this as an opportunity.

Essentially you could say that an employee that is leaving anyway, isn't leaving. A business is now faced with the opportunity to get loans, because essentially you don't know know if they need the money. If they say ask for an amount due to uncertainty and how long this will last, they will get it. And of course, yes, self employed can do it too, if they're late.

I'm glad of the financial support on offer for those in need - But there will be a certain minority that will abuse it.

I watched Martin Lewis show and that was weird. They had a woman on who was a self employed driving instructor, she didn't know what to do with the new rules. But she struck me as someone who wanted to flout them. She wanted to claim Universal Credit whilst she couldn't work, then claim back all the self employed money in June. Granted, I'm not fully aware of UC requirements, BUT you srely can't get all your money back in June and have a few quid via UC? I am sure she said at one point that she had savings too...

What's going to happen to the football? Non League has apparently been cancelled and it must set a precedent.

This non-existing season would be Wednesday's best in recent year. Sheffield United missing out on Europe, Liverpool on the league and Leeds on promotion

These new systems for business, workers and self employed are going to be open to so much abuse.

Businesses could essentially claim for workers who are leaving, apply for loans for no reason and/or even if they're going under anyway.

Self employed who are just getting by on £20k's or smaller could potentially play the system to get more money

The only good thing for businesses that need expansion loans, is that they'll never get a better chance of a loan at better rates

This will end up being similar to what people did after Grenfell, applying for money they shouldn't have got. In a year to come will be hundreds of cases of fraud

Does anyone else have a holiday booked for within the next 3 months?

We are booked for Gran Canaria in May and the total for us was around £1500. It was booked through TUI and they haven't been great about the holiday (when we booked). They are apparently offering refunds or vouchers, but should they be willing to add more onto the voucher (if needed) for another holiday. The alternative holiday in November was like £175 more.

In other news hotels being pretty decent about bookings and Airport lounges we booked have been fully refunded.

Also going Gran Canaria but not until mid June (should have been going to Vegas   ), think it's a flip if mine goes ahead or not.

TUI have no obligation to top up your voucher, they are allowing free amendments for anyone booked to travel before June 30th but naturally you'll have to pay the difference in cost between original and new booking. £175 for peace of mind doesn't seem like too much to pay.

You could always wait it out and make a late decision on it, on the off chance Spain really improves in April.

I think there's still a chance you'd get that holiday. It all depends on Spain I'd imagine.

As for vouchers and stuff, I think lots of folk are being pushed into it and now financially they can't say no to a refund. Hence why I could see people turning up their noses at a refund if the voucher is bigger by 5/10%. Personally, we was at our limit paying £700 for GC in May and the same holiday in November is even more expensive. We will very lkely be forced into take the refund in that case.

Does anyone else have a holiday booked for within the next 3 months?

We are booked for Gran Canaria in May and the total for us was around £1500. It was booked through TUI and they haven't been great about the holiday (when we booked). They are apparently offering refunds or vouchers, but should they be willing to add more onto the voucher (if needed) for another holiday. The alternative holiday in November was like £175 more.

In other news hotels being pretty decent about bookings and Airport lounges we booked have been fully refunded.