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Poll
Question: How will you vote on December 12th 2019
Conservative - 19 (33.9%)
Labour - 12 (21.4%)
SNP - 2 (3.6%)
Lib Dem - 8 (14.3%)
Brexit - 1 (1.8%)
Green - 6 (10.7%)
Other - 2 (3.6%)
Spoil - 0 (0%)
Not voting - 6 (10.7%)
Total Voters: 56

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Author Topic: The UK Politics and EU Referendum thread - merged  (Read 1328589 times)
ripple11
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« Reply #18510 on: June 27, 2019, 09:06:52 PM »



Leaving under the terms of the WA is acceptable to some, me included. Gets us out, a stepping stone until technology solves the border issue..and allows other stuff to be negotiated.


...and now it seems 26+ Labour MP's would probably vote for this. Finally seeing the light there is nothing in the WA that Labour should find so objectionable to warrant the crisis of this cliff edge. 

 The million dollar question is if Boris can somehow get a bit of movement on the backstop to bring along the ERG........then bingo we move into transition and then talk about the future.
« Last Edit: June 27, 2019, 09:17:25 PM by ripple11 » Logged
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« Reply #18511 on: June 27, 2019, 10:27:05 PM »

My enquiry on here last weekend as to whether the bbc (news/website/radio/tv) instinctively was pro-remain,pro-leave (i see it argued both ways) or balanced didn't receive a single response :-(

thought it was a genuinely interesting question too!

Whilst I don't think there's overt bias in their coverage, they'd be susceptible to the soft bias of the fact many of their employees are of a similar background (middle class, university types) and so would have a similar outlook on life - the main reason the Brexit result would have been such a shock to them.

Kukushin is right in that, in trying to be as impartial as they can, the BBC will instinctively avoid taking positions on issues at all, which inevitably leads to a pro-continuity/status quo position.
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kukushkin88
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« Reply #18512 on: June 27, 2019, 11:22:25 PM »


Leaving under the terms of the WA is acceptable to some, me included. Gets us out, a stepping stone until technology solves the border issue..and allows other stuff to be negotiated.

...and now it seems 26+ Labour MP's would probably vote for this. Finally seeing the light there is nothing in the WA that Labour should find so objectionable to warrant the crisis of this cliff edge. 
 The million dollar question is if Boris can somehow get a bit of movement on the backstop to bring along the ERG........then bingo we move into transition and then talk about the future.

This isn’t meant as a criticism but this is a very pro Tory shout (maybe it’s pragmatic). They have us in a massive hole, no government ever put us in a bigger hole.
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« Reply #18513 on: June 28, 2019, 08:01:08 AM »


Leaving under the terms of the WA is acceptable to some, me included. Gets us out, a stepping stone until technology solves the border issue..and allows other stuff to be negotiated.

...and now it seems 26+ Labour MP's would probably vote for this. Finally seeing the light there is nothing in the WA that Labour should find so objectionable to warrant the crisis of this cliff edge. 
 The million dollar question is if Boris can somehow get a bit of movement on the backstop to bring along the ERG........then bingo we move into transition and then talk about the future.

This isn’t meant as a criticism but this is a very pro Tory shout (maybe it’s pragmatic). They have us in a massive hole, no government ever put us in a bigger hole.

What hole exactly are we in?

As for the BBC being even and fair, well.........whilst I lolled, you only have to look at Simon McCoy and the post about the bus. Norman Smith is also hilariously so Pro Labour its  . When in the office, we all sit together shaking our heads at lunchtime at some of his comments.
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« Reply #18514 on: June 28, 2019, 08:28:42 AM »


Leaving under the terms of the WA is acceptable to some, me included. Gets us out, a stepping stone until technology solves the border issue..and allows other stuff to be negotiated.

...and now it seems 26+ Labour MP's would probably vote for this. Finally seeing the light there is nothing in the WA that Labour should find so objectionable to warrant the crisis of this cliff edge. 
 The million dollar question is if Boris can somehow get a bit of movement on the backstop to bring along the ERG........then bingo we move into transition and then talk about the future.

This isn’t meant as a criticism but this is a very pro Tory shout (maybe it’s pragmatic). They have us in a massive hole, no government ever put us in a bigger hole.

Given the way we voted and where we are now, I would call it a national interest shout personally.

If Corbyn had thought about that perhaps his own party wouldn’t have slumped in the polls as well as the Tories.



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kukushkin88
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« Reply #18515 on: June 28, 2019, 09:12:02 AM »


Leaving under the terms of the WA is acceptable to some, me included. Gets us out, a stepping stone until technology solves the border issue..and allows other stuff to be negotiated.

...and now it seems 26+ Labour MP's would probably vote for this. Finally seeing the light there is nothing in the WA that Labour should find so objectionable to warrant the crisis of this cliff edge. 
 The million dollar question is if Boris can somehow get a bit of movement on the backstop to bring along the ERG........then bingo we move into transition and then talk about the future.

This isn’t meant as a criticism but this is a very pro Tory shout (maybe it’s pragmatic). They have us in a massive hole, no government ever put us in a bigger hole.

Given the way we voted and where we are now, I would call it a national interest shout personally.

If Corbyn had thought about that perhaps his own party wouldn’t have slumped in the polls as well as the Tories.


No doubt in my mind that Corbyn has been terrible on Brexit throughout. We do need to remember how relatively small his ‘blame’ for the situation is compared to the main protagonists.
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« Reply #18516 on: June 28, 2019, 09:54:05 AM »

If we agree that in times of national crisis the obligation of the opposition leader is robust, decisive opposition showing clear alternative direction for the electorate. Leading to successful vote of no confidence, different direction and repair of damage then he is equally culpable.

He is only less culpable if our expectation of our opposition leader in times of national crisis is to sit on the sidelines saying nothing, doing nothing and failing to offer clarity of position
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« Reply #18517 on: June 28, 2019, 10:11:41 AM »

When Parliament had third vote it was only the WA voted on....basically the Irish "backstop", divorce bill and citizens' rights, it did not include a vote on the UK's future relationship with the EU.

That was when Corbyn could have stood up, accepted some compromise and moved the process forward in the national interest. All his talk about Customs Union etc could have been looked in the calm waters of the implementation period.
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« Reply #18518 on: June 28, 2019, 10:23:57 AM »

If we agree that in times of national crisis the obligation of the opposition leader is robust, decisive opposition showing clear alternative direction for the electorate. Leading to successful vote of no confidence, different direction and repair of damage then he is equally culpable.

He is only less culpable if our expectation of our opposition leader in times of national crisis is to sit on the sidelines saying nothing, doing nothing and failing to offer clarity of position

I’m talking about responsibility for causing the national crisis, his role in causing it really is quite small. He’s been a shambles in terms of his/Labour’s position on it. Which of them haven’t been really? Grieve has probably been the most impressive.
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« Reply #18519 on: June 28, 2019, 10:40:03 AM »

Here's the worst rating for every Leader of the Opposition since 1978 - new record broken this week
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« Reply #18520 on: June 28, 2019, 10:41:34 AM »

This has good detail in it

"So will a 'no deal' Brexit turn Kent into a lorry park? Empty the supermarket shelves?

Been pondering this from a) political b) technical perspective...coz I think optics will be key to what happens after a 'no deal'.

So...after some chats, here's what can be said "

https://twitter.com/pmdfoster/status/1144260266986811392
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« Reply #18521 on: June 28, 2019, 10:42:13 AM »

Remain alliance in Brecon and Radnor could be on the cards.

Greens have just said they won't stand. Other parties discussing giving Lib Dems a clear run at seat.

---

 Could provide proof of concept and increase demand for this to happen on a much larger scale in a general election.
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« Reply #18522 on: June 28, 2019, 10:44:34 AM »

For discussion

"One thing I never predicted about Brexit was how what it really meant was England leaving the EU. Most Brexiteers don’t seem to care if NI or Scotland come or go. It’s remarkable how weak British identity is turning out to be."
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« Reply #18523 on: June 28, 2019, 10:45:48 AM »

If we agree that in times of national crisis the obligation of the opposition leader is robust, decisive opposition showing clear alternative direction for the electorate. Leading to successful vote of no confidence, different direction and repair of damage then he is equally culpable.

He is only less culpable if our expectation of our opposition leader in times of national crisis is to sit on the sidelines saying nothing, doing nothing and failing to offer clarity of position

I’m talking about responsibility for causing the national crisis, his role in causing it really is quite small. He’s been a shambles in terms of his/Labour’s position on it. Which of them haven’t been really? Grieve has probably been the most impressive.

Considering the closeness of the referendum result and the ineffectiveness of his campaign I would disagree.

Effective opposition presenting a lucid Remain campaign has complete control over whether we are in this current position or not
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« Reply #18524 on: June 28, 2019, 10:45:53 AM »

Boris Johnson's Brexit deal claims rubbished by Guy Verhofstadt

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/jun/27/boris-johnson-brexit-deal-claims-rubbished-guy-verhofstadt
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