blonde poker forum

http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b010bbgz/Travellers_Episode_1/


Anyone else watch this ?, just watching first part and it seems a much more interesting program than the big fat weddings ones. Shows a lot more of everyday life.



The Stewarts are Scottish Travellers, proudly maintaining their traditional lifestyle, travelling the country in caravans and tents. They believe their culture is under threat, and that they are at odds with householders.

They want to foster better relations with the settled community, but they won't give up their Travelling lifestyle. They've let the cameras record their lives over a period of nine months, sharing precious moments, rarely witnessed outside their own community.

As the number of Travellers on the road shrinks, those that remain are determined to do whatever it takes to keep their culture alive.

i watched it the other night instead of ept madrid. young kid looked to win the fight and thought it was very informative.

 
I fakin hate pikeys !  ;snoopy'sguns;

(http://i444.photobucket.com/albums/qq167/Andr4w/popcorneater.gif)

That's an interesting statement. Would you care to elaborate?

When you say pikeys, what does it mean and who are you referring to?

Do you hate all pikeys regardless, be they men, women or children?

In before the gloves come off.

I'm sure this is just a repeat of the quote from Gorgeous George in Snatch with absolutely no harm intended.

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0208092/quotes (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0208092/quotes)

There, done my bit to make the world a nicer place for a day.

Perhaps, but I've been hearing that very phrase for 50 plus years. They weren't all referring to the film, and there was harm, intended and caused.

This wasn't a gloves off post BTW, I gust wanted to debate it.

I watched the TV shows and the travellers in general didn't come off great. Not sure if it was because of the editing, but there seemed a sway of threats to village locals who dared complain they were doing stuff illegally i.e building houses/structures without seeking permission first. To dismiss threats of killing someone as a joke does not wash we me.

 Was obv relating to the film. No insult intended red dog.
 fwiw  i have a fair number of gypsy friends. go as far to say alot of em  think i am just an old pikey woodcutter because i was born  in a caravan and have gone out coursing, drinking & gambling with em   :)

never really understood why gypsies take it as a derogatory term.
my understanding  in relating to  a pikey, is they  were pretty much the  only people prepared to do a real shite job in victorian times when on  the road gangs. on the pike all day pounding the tarmac ?
quite funny really when you think about gypsies not liking the term when a vast amount of em go around on the tarmac jobs still today. Alot of them being extremely skilled, successful and fairly rich from it also.

^^ lol epic recovery, do you also have lots of gay and lesbian friends and in frequent contact with a cross dressing welsh muslim?

^^
pathetic

some cultures refer to it as a 'joke'

The reason Gypsies are known as pikeys is because, from a young age, they're told to not tell anyone their name.

;applause;

i love andrew when he's on form!

Ooh! Subtlety. (It'll never catch on).

i thunk you are referring to the big Gypsie eviction one not the traveelers one.

The Big Gypsy Eviction was interesting. Shame filming stopped before the final outcome.

review here:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/tvandradio/8653312/The-Big-Gypsy-Eviction-BBC-One-review.html

Did you see both programs Acidmouse?
"Travellers" was on tuesday 19th at 12pm,   "The big gipsy eviction" was on thursday at about 10:30.
I just wondered because I thought the first one was a good, well rounded program, actualy following the men and women (rather than silly mouthy teens and old ladies with obvious "issues" god bless her) as they went about their daily lives.
I think it showed some of the huge differences between the seperate groups the media, and most people on the street lump together and call Gypsys, and it did state at the very clearly at the start of the program that the people shown were Scotch Travellers, then stuck to that term throughout, whereas the other program was called "gipsy eviction" even though every last one of them were Irish Travellers, they even had the Irish flag flying over site!
The makers of this program obviously knew the difference, but chose to keep saying Gyspy to try to tie in with the B.F.G.W. programs, once again abusing their positions and adding to the confusion and problems we face everyday without a second thought.

How typical, and what a shame that they chose to show the more educational (even to me, I dont know many Scotch Travellers) honest program at midnight, and the sensationalist, anger provoking show straight after the news when more people would see it.

I cannot stand gypsies in general , male , female , young and old based on my experiences of them over the years.I cannot comment on the TV show because i wouldn't waste mytime watching a show about them.

The majority of the ones i have come across appear to be very rude , ignorant , scheming , dishonest etc etc. I see them in the streets throwing rubbish on to the floor , ruining my neighbours rose gardens , setting up camps nearby and then leaving them in a state when they are moved away by the council.

I recently had an old radiator left outside my house and they kept knocking on my door to ask i wanted it removing. I kept saying no but i think they took it anyway when i went out shopping.

I have abosolutely no time for them , the children too.

That's a very good point about all travellers being labeled under the Gypsy umbrella.......probably feeding off the success of BFGW
.
I only caught a little of BFGW, but I see from the following statement, that they too showed both Gypsy and Irish Travellers in the programme.

Channel 4 released a statement to defend itself against the many attacks on 'Big Fat Gypsy Weddings'. It said: "The series features a mix of Irish Travellers and Romany Gypsies and the programme makes a clear distinction between these different groups. Whenever a person is introduced, we are careful to identify who they are and what community they come from.

"The series is an observational documentary and made predominantly from the perspective of Gypsies and Travellers talking about their own experiences. We have intentionally avoided many commonly held stereotypes and attempted to provide a balanced view of all featured communities across the series.

"We've received many messages of support from viewers who feel they have gained a better understanding of traveller and gypsy communities after watching the programme."

As a Gypsy who has been very open and proud of the fact, I have in my daily life from a very young age been confronted by members of "The settled community" who are bigoted, rude, spiteful, and ignorant. This includes people from all classes, rich and poor, educated or not, and so called authority figures, teachers, doctors, police etc.

Then I turn on my T.V and see endless examples of violence,crime, sluttish women, drug addled youths, broken homes, abused kids and neglected elderly people on the news and the many reality programs.

Do I assume from my personal experiences and the media that all of the settled community are like this? Of course I dont. Because I am not a complete moron.
Instead I go out and about in the world and give each new person I meet the benefit of the doubt. How many wonderful people and experiences would I have missed out if I did'nt?

I plan to continue doing this and teaching my children to do this same, because if we don't people like you will have won, and that would be shame for everyone.

Just brilliant. I don't have your grammar skills but would just like to say- Very well said. i only hope i can bring up my children to have the same attitude, intelligence and diplomacy that Tom has with you. You should post on here more.

Definitely a credit to your father. Well done. The reason I don't like censorship of "racist" posts or indeed any other controversial subject is because it denies people the opportunity to respond with such wisdom.

fyp

Excellent post. I'm wondering where the stereotypes in the minds of the haters come from and how they can be convinced that there is no merit in them.

Have you not had some travellers/Gypsies/whatever be a total pain in the arse at some point in your life? I sure have, but I'm not the sort of person to tar everyone with the same brush. There are also plenty of people out there that think all scousers are thieves, black people are crims blah de blah. Its very easy to see where the stereotypes come from, its just some people are more open minded than others about not everyone from the same group being the same.

The problem with thinking all scousers are thieves and black people crims is that it cannot possibly be the case. What would the mechanism for such commonality be? Genes? Hardly. Common culture? What is 'scouse culture'/'black culture'? There's no such thing. Lots of cultures permeate the scouse and black communities, it would be impossible for something like 'thievery' or 'criminality' to take root in such variety.
For the travelling community, such an a priori disqualification on grounds of diffusion is (correct me if I'm wrong) maybe not applicable. They pass a discrete culture from generation to generation, seldom migrate into settled communities, settled communities seldom migrate into theirs. Thus...there is a possible mechanism by which a different (maybe unwelcome) set of attitudes and norms become much more prevalent in such a community. In which case prejudicial stereotypes would not be unfounded.
Thus, to use the (a priori) unfounded stereotyping of jews/muslims/coloured people and extend it to the stereotyping of travelling people is probably fallacious. Whether the stereotype fits the facts is another matter.

I know your right, but many people think like that whether you like it or not. That's just the way of the world..........

Great post.

I cannot stand the ones who knock on my door and offer to service my drive , offer gardening services , offer to do the guttering , offering Safestye type services etc etc.

Has anybody on here paid for any sort of gypsies service ? If not is there anybody who would be happy to use the services of a gypsies?

I know that my views sound anti gypsy , which they are , but it is based on my experience of them over the years and i would say i disliked probably 90% of the ones I've met. Saying that I'm sure there are ones who are pleasant and the total opposite to the ones in my area.

I can't stand ignorant,racist and prejudice people.

I don't buy anything from anyone who comes to my door. Would have nothing to do with whether they are Gypsies or not.

I dislike the Travellers that has completely destroyed some of the Telecomms sites we are currently working on. £10k worth of damage so they could get £75 worth of copper. VWP, you bunch of thieving bastards.

Having said that, I also hate the neds that damaged a site recently and caused £5k worth of damage because "They were bored".

Oh and the "respectable" middle-class white pillocks that protested against Vodafone being tax-dodgers by setting fire to 5 Telecomms sites (none of which were Voda sites). I hate those ignorant do-gooders as well.

Good and bad to be found in every society. I don't know many Gypsies. In fact, I don't know any other than Mr and Mrs Red who are two of the nicest people I have ever come across.

As for disliking 90% of any race/culture of people you've ever some across. Yeah, I have the same...mainly because 90% of people are knobs, you're kind off proving my point there, nothing to do with what race they are.

I just watched the first show and thought it was excellent, fair and showed how the whole community live. Unlike the evicted crap that I kinda guessed was naughty editing and basically crap tv that has a negative effect on people's perceptions of travellers.

Whys that then ? Door to door is a valid route to market.

i do Door to Door for BskyB, I don't hide anything from customers, i am fully CRB checked every 6 months and get lots and lots of referals from existing customers who i have signed up on the door.

So why wouldn't you sign up with a door to door person ?

If I want to buy something, I'll go to a shop. That's what they're for.

If I'm sat at home, I'm not looking to buy anything, so don't pester me.

Same here about never buying anything door to door, if I want something I'll look up the alternatives and go and buy it - by definition a door to door salesman therefore won't have anything I want.

Indeed, I am not saying that door to door sales people are all crooks...I just don't want anything they're selling because, if I did, I would already have bought it.

In fact, the one thing that I wouldn't mind door-to-door salesmen selling would be those signs which say 'No door-to-door salesmen' because that would be the one thing I'd need right then.

This and going by the attitudes of some on the thread, by association you are linked to News International so gtfo

 ;)

Geo

i am just  about to watch Tyson Fury fight. A nicer guy in boxing you are gonna struggle to find and he is a traveller. His dad John fought in the 80's but is now serving an 11 year jail sentance for gouging a mans eye out. good and bad in all walks of life and most certainly not like father like son

+1 Who the fuck to invited them knock on my door?

Just to revert back to an earlier point, can I correct one small point?

All scousers are thieves. That's all.

but they are only called thieves if they get caught

Obviously, if they're not caught thieving they're benefit scroungers

you need your own show lol

You've certainly stolen all our hearts Caroline.

Smooth.

sexist pigs

2nd part is on bbc1 tonight

Just watched the first episode of this and it was excellent.

No comedy music, no stereotyping through selective editing. Show the good, show the bad, report what you saw accurately, that's how to make a documentary.

Hope the second episode is as good as the first.

You must be joking.

I tend to judge people on their merits, but as someone who lives in Essex, seeing the misery that gypsies have caused in Crays Hill to the local people - as well as the unbelievable cost to the taxpayer - I can see why people are capable of having ridiculously ill-informed opinions of these people.

There's so much fail in this reply, it's hard to know where to start

The cold hard facts are that there are legal and illegal parts to the camp site in Crays Hill. Nobody has a problem with those travelers who have set up home in the legal section.

As it stands, despite repeatedly being told to get off an illegal site, the travelers have refused to do so. The cost to remove these people stands at an estimated 18 million - this is a disgrace.

Still, it's not to see you've explained why my post is so full of fail, rather than writing that rather boring and predictable reply.

 Where are these people supposed to go? Just asking as everyone always seems to say NIMBY but won't tell you where these people should actually go.

Also (Guardian website today) Dawn French, Basildon council's head of corporate services, said:  "The council confirms that there are three pitches where it has no authority to remove caravans from the land. It does, however, have authority to remove the hardstanding from beneath the caravans and the private roadways from which the pitches are accessed"

Why would you remove the hard standing from beneath these caravans? Sounds to me like that your statement is not exactly accurate.


BTW, don't quote the £18mill. The figure is only ever mentioned in the Daily Mail and in, inflated, police estimates (Police only estimate £12mill to be required as they don't seem to agree with the eviction and consider the amount protesters and people who have nothing to do with the camp coming to cause trouble to be the expensive part of the policing costs)
Anywhere between 8 and 12mill is far more realistic for the immediate eviction costs (Even though that's likely to be overstated)

Finally, isn't Crays Hill a Travellers site?

Sounds like some on here have no real life contact with gypsies. If you have had any sort of dealing whether it be in business , at work or in a social surrounding then you will know they are a nightmare to be around. I personally cannot stand them . I dint mind Jews, French , German , Indians , Chinese , religious minded and most gays etc  but gypsies they are the absolute worst i have ever encountered.

Most gays will be relieved im sure.

Some of the above posts are overtly racist.... I would be disappointed if they were not deleted.

I believe it is RED-DOG's opinion that he would like "tricky" posts on this subject left for him to respond to (he can correct me if I am wrong)

Until recently deletion would have been the immediate option 

Ok Rich, I understand.
Pretty difficult to have a reasoned discussion with people who's views are so extreme, but I guess if anyone can achieve that, it's Tom.

Sorry didn't mean to come across as being as racist. Just wanted to say i very much dislike gypsies without being offensive.

all of them?

everywhere?

I think it's probably ok to say 'I once had a bad experience with a group of people from the travelling community, which was.... etc...'.
It's definitely not ok to say,' I hate all Gypsies / I think all Gypsies are...', given that you have probably met / encountered <0.05% of Gypsies in the UK.

I do think we get over sensitive about this stuff sometimes just cus we know Tom. I mean I could pick groups that I hate and I don't mind saying, chavs immediately spring to mind lol, there are others too  :)

Same here Germans and blacks for me.

Yes thank , i should have worded it like you have. I absolutely did not want to imply that i HATE all gypsies because like you say I've probably met less than 1% of UK gypsies. But of the hundreds that i have come across i would say that over 90% of them i disliked.

Given that I don't really know what 'chavs' are, and they are almost certainly not a group in the same category as Gypsies, people of West Indian origin etc..., I think that's a poor example.
I don't think it's oversensitive to point out racism, when it is so open and obvious.

I know Tom, and like him a lot, so it's possible that that is a consideration when I posted earlier, but I would hope  my reaction would be the same if  similar comments were posted relating to another group of people.

And you like more than 90% of the non-Gypsy people that you've met?

Agree , i do have a dislike of men who act and dress very feminine. I don't mind gays per SE , but the Alan Carr or the Lily Savage types and guys who walk down the street holding hands do my head in.

smashedagain seems to be making 2 points.

i. Tyson Fury is a traveller - and a nice bloke
ii. His dad isn't a nice bloke - and that this is a good illustration that all groups have a range of good and bad


Your response


Would seem to be aimed at the whole of his statement, so:


1. Do you really think that Tyson Fury can't be a nice bloke purely based on the fact that he's a traveller?
2. Do you really think that the traveller community doesn't have a range of people from good to bad in it?

The rest of your statements would make it unlikely that you think that they are all good so

3. Do you really think that every single traveller is 'bad'?



4. Are you suggesting that you would normally form an opinion based on an individuals actions and beliefs - but for certain ethnic groups you're happy to put that aside and just use stereotype and prejudice to form your opinion instead?



5. Capital G for Gypsies

(that never bothers me, but it would be remiss of me to ignore it)

6. Are there any Gypsies in Crays Hill?
7. If there are Gypsies in Crays Hill, what relevance would this have to whether a boxing traveller is a nice guy or not?



8. Which people?

Your previous statement about Gypsies has confused the issue. If you're going to be prejudiced about a group shouldn't you make sure you know who it is you're biased against?

Probably of the 100s of people i come across each week i would say i dislike a handfull if that. Just the odd salesman here and there really.

The truth is you will have met or come into contact with many many Gypsies without knowing it.

A man said to me the other day, "How come all the Gypsies I see are loud and obnoxious?"

I told him it was because he didn't even notice all the quiet civil ones.

I can't tell you how many times I've sat at a poker table and listened to a "I hate Gyppo's, I can spot em a mile off" conversation.

Jon MW would be happy to take your car to be serviced by a gypsie ?

Why the capital G for gypsie ?

Have you ever spent any time with more than a few gypsies ?

Red Dog , yes or no , would you take your car to be serviced by a gypsie ?

Don't say you only take it a official dealer.

i had a recent post deleted for using the word Tom has just used. the thing that shocked me most was that i could not see what was wrong with actually using it. shame on me.
i have seen a gypsie put a hatchet through a mates skull at a fishing match and i have played poker with Tom.  i know both hitler and claudia schiffer were both german.
you just cant make such sweeping statements and generalize in such a manner.

but something that sticks in my throat a little bit is all the do gooders that think they have to stick up for everyone. i know jackally and kinboshi are good guys but what prejudice have you two white middle class gents ever suffered?

:D

I don't drive, but for every business it's a balance between personal recommendation/online reviews and how qualified/experienced they seem to do the job - whether the people doing the work are black/white/Gypsy/Jew or other isn't really a factor.

- because they're an ethnic group, plenty of people write british and not British for example, so I don't think it's really a big deal, but it's not really anything to do with me.

- yes, probably, there are a lot near where I work and where I used to live. As to which people specifically I've met who are Gypsies - I wouldn't know, they don't wear a sign.

lol. i would suspect i know that red dog services his own car so know the answer to this question

You sure do

lol. oops am i gonna have to google schiffer. fml assumption is the mother of all fuck ups.

Was on about Hitler. Pretty sure he was an Austrian. I was just being pedantic. He probably became German at some point anyway. Carry on.

yep she is german so you may have whooshed me. point is one of em would be allowed through my front door and the other would have to use the back door

When he annexed Austria if not before.

I love the question, clearly shows that acc2020 has not been reading any of the replies to this thread.

Herbie you can act like a fool at times.  Why on earth does anyone need to be the focus of discrimination to be able to speak out about it or be intolerant of it?  I don't like women being discriminated against, or the aged, or gays, or people of any race. It's utter bollocks to suggest that people shouldn't stick up for those who suffer discrimination.  In fact, it's often others who need to stick up for minority groups (or groups being discriminated against) most of the time - the very nature of them being a minority group or being placed in a position where they have some/all of their rights removed.

Oh, and I've been discriminated against, but that's irrelevant.

Ignorance upon layer of ignorance and bigotedness.

Haha. Herbie man. You are so dumb. How can you not know Hitler was Austrian?
assume makes an ass of u and me.

lol i love fishing. you sit round for hours with no bites then you get two in two casts

quote kinboshi "Herbie, stfu.  Why the hell should I google any of the RSQ questions?  Come and test me, and we'll have a £100 on it."
quote herbie " rotflmfao rotflmfao you've just dragged my fishing rod off into the lake. its took a while but i never thought you would bite like that"

and i may look chinese to you guys but was actually born in german and am aware of hitlers heritage.
as for cultured. let me tell you i've been to leeds

This is complete bullshit, that is EXACTLY what you wanted to imply since you did the same thing not so long ago and got quite a few negative responses to it. You are a racist, ignorant, prejudice person and I totally disagree with your posts staying up so that Tom can respond to them, if we had a gay mod on blonde are we keeping every homophobic post up to be responded to... just send him a pm on the way to telling him to GTFO. I'm not really sure why people would only be fussed about racism because it effects someone they know, personally, I just can't stand racist idiots.

I honestly get sick of all this PC bullshit on here sometimes, I for one am just going to speak my mind from now on here regardless of what others think.

LOL at it being PC bullshit. 

I'm sure the are plenty of things I think are PC bullshit that you don't agree with, c'est la vie :-)

There are many more important things to worry about in this world.

It is Tom's request (or was) that such posts stay up for him to respond to. It's not a mod decision to keep them up without his input first

The same cannot be said to apply to homophobic posts, where gay mods would not necessarily request as Tom has done 

Can all members do the same then and thus no posts should ever be deleted as some would like to respond to them ?

can you read my pm's tighty ...just sent a pm to kinboshi about this subject

Eh ?

Blatant racism and PC bs is not really the same is it ?

Maybe there'd be a lot less important things to worry about in this world if there wasn't so many racist and ignorant people in it.

No I can't read your PMs. Only the millionth time you have asked that

No, Mondatoo, all members cannot do the same. I appreciate the difficulties, but don't extrapolate those posts staying up into a general trend. It's a personal thing that Tom would like in this instances. It may or may not be workable, time will tell

100% agree with Ray on this.

Andrew, there is a difference between PC bullshit and racism (IMO).
The comments that appeared earlier were racism, no more, no less.

I would not normally go near the pedantic arguments that appear on this forum from time to time, but felt strongly enough in this instance to make a  point.

When i was a kid and lived in Manchester i was one of 5 white kids in a class of 25.
Did i take shit for it? of course.
How did i combat it? I bleached my hair blonde and learned to rap obv! [ ] happened.

No seriously, what i learned is there is not much you can do about it, you can talk to you are blue in the face. People of distinct prejudices in my experience seem to be lacking in education or what is more common is that they have had these thoughts and values imposed on them from a very young age usually be parents etc and they are unwilling/too dumb to listen to reason.

In my life i have been mugged by 4 black guys, had my cap stolen by a ginger guy and i have been threatened by a group of 'Irish travellers'. Do i hate blacks? No. Do i hate the Irish or travellers. No? Do i hate Gingers?? Obv! they stink like piss.

See saying it about fats and gingers seem to be fine. Unless this post gets deleted...PC BS is stuff like calling a black board a chalk board etc is abso redic and nothing to do with racism, this is dreamt up by some upper class nob in his office who has no idea how normal people think. I know for a fact anyone i have spoken to of any race thinks shit like that is absurd.

Fair enough with racism and homophobia, but why is nobody against Fatism? They say being gay is in your genes as is being fat for some.

I agree that good discussions can originate from tricky posts. But I don't understand why individual mods should be able to select which tricky topics remain up for discussion based on whether the subject is personal to them. And similarly take other tricky subjects down that they have little interest in. A racist post can offend anybody whether they are from that race or not. And anybody may want to contribute to tricky subjects even though they are not personally involved. Not having a pop at mods it's just I like equality. Breaks my heart when I hear a smashedagain post has been deleted without reading it.

TBF, the "stink of piss" comment would have been funny with any race in there TBH as it's clearly a joke.

Last sentence apart :-), you make some good points. We'll see how it goes.

How can anyone be offended by me saying i dislike gypsies and men who are extremely camp ?

Whats so offensive about that ? I'm being completely truthful .

I admit i don't visit this site on a regular basis , but I'm sure there are posts on here criticising and taking the piss out of some high profile poker players. Would someone posting i hate Phil Hellmuth be deemed offensive and would that warrent a torrent of abuse by the Phil Hellmuth Fan Club ?

only got deleted because i got a pm from a mod threatening to ban me from trolling.....same pm got deleted from rsq 70 thread. that obv cant handle the truth so feck em.
tighty has tried to smooth it over but its complete bollocks

Totally agree .

I'm neither a racist or homophobic , just because i dislike the 2 groups doesn't make me one.

Herbie, stop being a fool (again).  The post was deleted because you posted the content of a PM.  That's not allowed on here, as I pointed out to you in a PM.  Is that so difficult to understand?

Do you not understand the difference between criticising someone from what they do and for discriminating against a race because of what they are?

For the record, I asked that racist posts concerning Gypsies be left up because in my opinion racism is less dangerous when it's overt rather than covert.

In some instances, people are not actually racist but rather labouring under preconceptions that have been reinforced by negative stereotyping and a bias media for generations.

I appreciate that this stance could put my fellow mods in a difficult position, and I thank them for their indulgence. If the situation becomes untenable I will accept whatever course of action they decide to take.

rotflmfao

Eh ?

Blatant racism and PC bs is not really the same is it ?

Maybe there'd be a lot less important things to worry about in this world if there wasn't so many racist and ignorant people in it.
[/quote]

I didn't think what the guy said was that bad tbh, just expressing a view. I'm sure there are groups out there that you don't like either. FWIW its not specifically this issue I'm talking about, but just more of a general thing across the forum about the same crew jumping on someone every time they say something they don't like.

Some people in this world aren't very tolerant of others, that's just the way it is. But I don't see why they should have less of a say than others tbh. It's not right if the moral brigade on here get to say what is right and wrong is it?

If he had an established business with suitable premises, the correct tools, a good reputation and he quoted a competetive price then yes, of course I would.

Now let me ask you, would you let the bloke next door service your car because he is not a Gypsy, or would you make your decision based on some other criteria?

Herbie for gay mod.

he's not the only one offended though..

i would like all  rascist posts concerning blacks and gay's to be left up so I can stand up for my friend Ernest.

I appreciate what Mr Red is trying to do by asking for the posts to be left up.
It is very commendable that he tries to have a reasonable discussion with people who might have said something unfortunate about Gypsies.
He is nothing if not an educator by heart (And a very patient man)

I do, however, think that there is no point in arguing a point with someone who clearly has their mind made up already.

It's the same as me saying that all Jews are scum. Sure Kab and Snatty (if he ever actually posted again!!) could try to discuss it with me and explain why I would be incorrect in my statement but there would be very little point as my statement would already have made it clear that I have made my tiny and bigotted mind up.

The thread would then only escalate and nothing good would come out of it.

Just saying.

can u ban smash? just throwing that out there.. :)

He's on a short holiday, re-introducing himself to his wife.

While there is so much foot fall, why not check out the best comp on Blonde: http://blondepoker.com/forum/index.php?topic=54475.0

Alan Sugar would be proud.

ffs. terrible timing. may as well go and delete the post I just made on another thread if it's not gonna get a reaction out of him

Nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo

Please don't..I like Smash's posts. Sure, he's thick as mince but all Chino-Germans are.

Sino-German, surely?

::)

Surely not?..That would make the restaurant round the corner a Sinky...that just doesn't make any sense :)

I wouldn't be able to respond in the same way Red does if people were making such sweeping statements about Greeks.

I do understand why people make so many misconceptions about Gypsies, as I was guilty of that before I met Red and read a lot of his posts and asked him questions but some of the things that are being said are just absolutely WTF.

A lot of good would come out of it because there are vast swathes of neutrals and floaters that such debates would have an impression on.

Well his view is that he doesn't like a whole community and labels them all because of his dealings with people from that community, which is what most racism stems from imo. The only groups I dislike are those who belong to a group that all wish to represent the same thing that I disagree with, such as Nazi's. Other than that I'm not stupid enough to think that an extremely small minority of people I may've had negative dealings with represent a whole community.

As for the forum, who is this crew ? is it not just that some people with similar opinions express a similar point against those who they disagree with ?

Do we really need to debate whether being racist is right or wrong ?

wtf. pfttttttt

dunno what he did but bring back herbie and get rid of kinboshi pls.

because you lot are all inarticulate?

I'd like to think that I rarely judge entire groups by the actions of a select few. However one thing would say is that I have had 3 terrible life experiences at the hands of gypsies, and I could understand why that would change an individuals view of an entire group, but I'd like to think it hasn't done that to me.

As you will ask:

1. Pet dog stolen. The dog meant everything to me aged 9.

2. Had a group "take over" a site I was project manager on, mid meeting. In trying to remove them had a chain and padlock swung at me (with intent) and was punched in the face. [ ] they were prosecuted.

3. Had a group try to move onto my gun club site ! Took great joy in the fact that 30 members were shooting at the time. It only took 1 flat tyre [ ] they came back

With respect to you and apologies for my rather glib reply-

I don't judge the entire settled community, although I know some of them are guilty of rape, murder, arson, genocide, torture, treason.....

One other small but important point, do you know if they were Gypsies, or just people in caravans?

I dislike gypsies for specific reasons based on my encounters with them over the years . For example , I used to run a business and found then very rude to me , my staff and my customers. They would always try to pay less than the agreed price and often try the " i'm a few quid short " trick. In my local paper shop i would often see gypsie kids trying the same thing with sweets. They turn up in large groups of caravans and set up camp for a week or 2 and then leave it with all their rubbish not properly diisposed of. On occasions i've seen beer bottles and cans thrown into my garden during the time of their stay , however if i'm being truthful it could have been non gypsies. Mine and other residents have had their flowers gardens ruined , again this is only a suspicion that they are done by gypsies. These are some of the reasons why i dislike them , nothing to do with race , infact can anyone distinguish a gypsie from another ordinary white bloke .

In regards to dislikeing men who are overly feminine ,it has nothing to do with the fact they may be gay , infact i have many gay friends and have no problems with them. I just find them pretentious , all that skipping down the street and all that. Those of you who have seen Louis Spence on TV may understand what i mean.Those of you who have jumped down my throat don't say you like Louis Spence because i will not believe you.

I live in the north west of England where there is a lot diversity and i have many friends from all different backgrounds , so calling me a racist is totally wrong.

This is a great example of why I prefer that these posts be left up.

Oh boy...OK Let me put it this way;

I don't mind Asians, Chinese, Japanese, Russians, Mongolians etc. but hate blacks.

I have friends from loads of different background...just because I hate blacks that doesn't make me a racist, does it?

what have you got against blacks boldie?

Red Dog  , i would use the same criteria as you when selecting who to let service my car , but if he was a gypsie i would not use him , based on my experiences with many  gypsies.

I do understand your point of view in regards to PC although it does on occasions go a little to far.

Obviously i don't know you but can i take a guess that you live in somewhere like Cheltenham or Kent. Have a large house / castle with a moat , drive a Range Rover  , 60 miles  from the nearest council estate ?

I'm beginning to suspect that acc might just be a bit of a troll tbh

Since when have gypsies become a race ?

I dislike their culture , so would prefer to be called a culturistist.

But if they are a race and you are right , then yes i am a racist. A selective racist which would be the truth.

Gypsies are a race.

I'm the one on the left, but you can safely hate everyone in that pic.


(http://i54.tinypic.com/1eo39g.jpg)

Don't start with me mate. I was watching this documentary on black people once...it was un real.

Loads of druggies and criminals. And whenever they were cops they turned out to be corrupt.

You can't trust them mate.

I recommend watching the documentary...I think it's probably available online somewhere

Here's the info link

http://www.hbo.com/the-wire/index.html

I just love the Mr Red reveal.

 ;tightend;

Clearly that Wagon is parked in front of a massive mansion in one of Red's country estates

That explains all the gypsie supporters on here , i did think it was very odd that very few backed me on here.

Ha Ha too good Tom.....

Obviously...and he probably uses the kids to clean his moat.

So the Scottish Highland Travellers gypsies are the same race as the Uzbek Lyuli Gypsies? What happened, did they lose their way?

Ad trolliem attacks are probably a good indication that you're in the process of winning an argument.

I call level, surely no-one can actually ask that question seriously?

Lol at Tom and his awesome photoshop abilities.

You get one of your "people" to do that for you.

Well done to Boldie for finally showing his true Nazi spirit.

Well done to Dewi for starting such an amazing thread.

Well done to acc2020 for making my day.

Rumbled....

durrrr

Are either group actually Gypsies though? Wikipedia says that Lyuli aren't, for instance.

Dunno, the Scottish Travellers seem to call themselves that. When people say 'gypsy' are they normally meaning 'romani' traveller?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scottish_Travellers#Indigenous_Highland_Travellers

The dreaded multi-quote. Here goes.


You are either thick, or are doing your absolute best to come across in that manner.

My comments, unsurprisingly, related only to the bit in which I bolded - hence why I did. Don't play the race card with me.

In fact, I'm not even going to respond to the rest of your rubbish. It's a cowardly attempt to paint me as some sort of racist because you're ill-informed over the issue of the Crays Hill site.

You're using semantics to hide behind your ignorance of the issue at hand and I'm not going to be bogged down by it.

You go through the whole rigmarole of posting a reply without any facts then proceed to ask that - presumably rhetoric - question at the end? Why am I going to respond to the rest of it if your unsure of the answer?

I will answer the question as to where they can go though. Many of them can go back to Wolverhampton to the council estate they willingly chose to leave in order to come to Crays Hill.

Your post pretty much seems to be suggesting that you think it's ludicrous to suggest that Tyson Fury is a nice guy purely based on the fact that he's a traveller, everything else is a logical extension from that.


More simply than before then - in what way has the situation at Crays Hill got anything at all to do with the statement


How is Crays Hill in any way at all relevant?

Once had some travellers in my taxi and a lass in back hocked up the nastiest greeny you have ever seen and spat it between her legs on my floor. Got to destination and they were refusing to pay until an English lass who was with them got some money out to pay.

[  ] nice people

Taxi drivers eh?

[ ] Nice people...

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/crime/7798513/Cumbria-shootings-gunman-Derrick-Bird-kills-12-then-shoots-himself.html

I assumed, most sensible, rational people would be able to see that given I'd started a new paragraph, the Crays Hill bit was separate to the bit about Tyson Fury.

I didn't realise you needed everything to be spoon fed to you.

In future, to ensure you're not easily confused, when I switch topics within the same post I'll make sure to let you know Jon.

Oh and I specifically bolded the section about him being the nicest boxer in the whole wide world. Why you've brought the fact he's a traveler into it amazes me. If the fact he was a traveler was in anyway relevant to my thoughts, I'd have carried on and bolded the entire text. There's a reason I stopped when I did.

Hopefully this post hasn't confused you either.

Back when they were building the M6 toll road one of my gyms was inundated with new Gypsy members. I remember most of them had the same surname of either Clee or Lee and they all had the same scibbly writing. I was happy enough to join these fellas up and bash my monthly sales targets. Mostly all good members as well and showed me and my team a fair amount of respect. There was another group of about 20 who didn't want to contend with forms and such but turned up every night 15 mins before we closed and paid £10 each for a day pass just to use the showers after work. The club made £200 extra every night for months and they were all in and out in 15 mins flat. I loved those Gypsies.

That might well be the stupidest post that I have ever seen in my 6+ years on this forum.

Ralph. You really are the master of the understatement.

You never seen Hopkin's horse tips?

I once tried to help a mini cab driver with no real upside for me but the useless fucker grimmed me on a bet. Fking hated mini cab drivers since then.

Good effort but I can only rate that 4/10 or 367th.

Impressive effort out of some 1.4 million though.

Well done Cos.

Really disappointing that there was no "grabbing" in this tv show

Well what an interesting topic. Seem to remember all this being done before on here though.

The problem here seems to be the lack of sensible debate fuelled by the hero worshipping of Tom. Now don't get me wrong, I actually think that Tom is a wasted talent, he should write books, TV shows, nature programs and much more and I would love to spend an afternoon with him drinking tea and talking about nature and the countryside - in many ways he reminds me of my Dad.


BUT.......I think that he is probably trying to put the best side forward for what most of us find to be a bad bunch. Before I go on I must admit that I, along with many others, group Gypsies, Travellers, Fair blokes etc etc into the same 'Category' But still, the majority of our contact with these people leaves a negative impact because they steal, scam, trash, fight, intimidate and generally cause a nusiance to the main population. Now you will probably counter this with an arguamment that this is just the one's that you meet but how else are you supposed to make a judgement?

And don't get me started on Greeks!!!

I think the easy answer is, why would you want to judge all people from a certain race, or background, as a group?
I have  no inclination to judge all people of Asian origin based on the people of Asian origin that I encounter, and the same for any other group of people.

But if every one that you encountered from a particular race, background, group was a wrongen then wouldn't you form an opinion?

Greek mini cab drivers not the best cause to back at the moment!!

Actually Greek anything not the best cause to back at the moment.......unless you want to go skint!!!!

Highmile makes a very good point on a very difficult topic here.

If every person from a particularly group that you come across is bad then human nature will make you distrust them all until you have good reason to formulate a different opinion.

It's the same if a woman or man is cheated on by a few partners. They will naturally develop a mistrust in all women/men and it will become difficult for the next one they meet to break that mistrust.

It's totally unfair to tar the next person with the same brush as the last but we as humans just can't help it.

If I had never met a Chinese person then bumped in to one tomorrow and he punched me in the face I'd be a little wary. If I met another the next day and he did the same I'd start to think I was better off not meeting any more Chinese people because they have a habit of punching me in the face.

If I then met 50 Chinese people who all bought me a pint I'd then realise that those first 2 were just bad apples amongst a group of generally reasonable people.

If somebody has a majority of bad experiences of Gypsies, Chinese, men, women, dogs, cats or any other group that you can think of then it is totally understandable for that person to develop a mistrust in the group as a whole.

Unfortunately some people aren't very good at putting their opinion across in a reasonable manner to most which is why we end up where we are now with this thread.

I don't know what's more unlilkely in your example, 2 different chinese blokes being able to reach your face or the notion of chinese guys buying pints in pubs.

You have articulated this in a much better way than i did.

In retrospect i think i was a little hasty in suggesting i dislike over 90% of the hundreds of gypsies I've had social interaction with. To be fair i think the figure maybe nearer 75% , which is still very high in my opinion compared to probably disliking less than 5% of the normal population. I also want to say my dislike is purely based on how they interact within society rather than their physical appearance or their skin tone.

These are my views based on my interaction with hundreds of them. There are some posters on here who i think are trying to be overtly PC who have had no dealings with them but are forcing their own counter arguments. If i have had no interaction with the Mekon tribe from south eastern Timbuktu then i would not force an opinion about them one way or the other.

Was it necessary to call me a bigot , racist or homophobe ?

I don't give a toss if I do look like a fanboy. RED_DOG kicktcho botty is what went down in this internet.

Good luck with the roses.

A few people have suggested ITT that the reason people are sticking up for Gypsies is because of Tom - but I'm pretty sure if there was a thread with people making any kind of racist/homophobic or other prejudiced comments people would react similarly.

There has been the occasional small scale version of it in places but the reason why the threads about Gypsies get quite so long and involved is because they're less likely to get nipped in the bud and deleted.

highmile makes a valid and well reasoned point, peoples peceptions of Gypsies are that the vast majority of them are wrong-uns. (Although any reasonably independent thought would lead to the conclusion that the percentage is actually about the same as it is for any other group).

Once upon a time in America, most decent, law-abiding citizens were convinced that Red Indians (Native Americans) were savages and wanton killers. The same goes for the Aborigines, who were hunted like animals by well educated, civilised, cultured people.

It's a fact that even today, in these enlightened times, any negative feeling or adverse racial stereotyping toward Gypsies is openly encouraged and amplified by the media, especially the red tops. As a consequence, people who have never met, or at best have had very little contact with Gypsies have already made up their minds.

Open prejudice toward Gypsies in this and other countries is the last bastion of tolerated racism, and it's effects can be and often are too horrible to contemplate, especially when you see it first hand on a regular basis.

I'm grateful to all those who have taken the time to contribute to this thread, whatever their stance.

2 or 3 very good posts in last couple of pages

my experiences of gypsies are this...

red-dog helping me and encouraging me with my weight loss/challenge....as did the settled comunity....

a gypsy nicking my saw from the back of my van ...as have two people from the settled comunity....

a group of gypsies now living in a rented house near my brother great group of people....

...my point i judge every person i come to meet individually as should  all of us the world would be a much nicer place.

You learn how to play poker and in your first tournament your aces get cracked. Then in your next tournament they get cracked again. Thus your whole personal experience with aces in tournaments is bad and they don't win for you. I agree that next time you pick up aces you will be a little wary, but that's different from having a conviction that aces will always lose. You know about poker and you have learnt the game so even thou your personal experience is bad you should be able to use your overall wisdom to conclude that aces do in fact mostly win. Similarly from learning about life and people we should know that most people are innately good. We might have had bad experiences a couple of times but we should still have the wisdom to conclude that the bad is the minority. If we are unable to do that we would be branding whole races of people inherently bad and that would be as foolish as the conviction aces always get cracked in tournaments. What human nature does is make us pidgeon hole stuff so if you're expecting bad it will be easy to find.

Comparing real life experiences to something which can be mathematically proven is ridiculous to say the least.

Racism seems to have declined in the UK in the last 50 years, from the days of 'no dogs/no blacks/no irish', probably through a process of education and enlightenment: most people now know that racial prejudice leads to biased approaches where the bias is unjustified. You simply cannot make valid judgements about someone's character based on their race/colour. This is because there is no correlation between the social behaviours of that person as they will affect you (the person making the judgement) and the colour of their skin/group they were born into.
It may be the belief of some people however that a major defining characteristic of "Gypsies"/Travellers IS a social behaviour that will affect the judging party, namely nomadism, and with it, non-integration into the community in which they have just made themselves present. They may feel (rightly/wrongly?) that whereas on the one hand even though people normally resident in their communities may not be champions of altruism, these people know that their behaviour has long term consequences for them and it is better for all concerned if they try to respect/help each other. There is no such long term consequence for the Traveller because they simply will not be there. Where is the incentive not to *just do as you please*?
If anyone can prove their prejudice wrong, I'm sure you can.

you need to take better care of your saws

Against a random hand the mathematical fact is aces are good 85% of the time and bad 15% of the time. I propose 85% of people are good and 15% are bad (althou that bad figure is quite high imo). So hating on the 85% because of the 15% is a similar mindset to believing your aces will lose. Thus you hate the majority % because of your experience with the minority %. I don't know how to prove my theory that most people are good mathematically in order to support this proposal but I don't think saying it's ridiculous disproves it.

Downside of trusting someone you should have distrusted - quite high.

Downside of distrusting someone you should have trusted - quite low.

=>Bias towards distrust is a better strategy.

Probably the basis for negative stereotyping, and the Funamental Attribution Error (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fundamental_attribution_error) too.

Very well put and i agree with most of that. What i disagree with is where you suggest that the percentage of wrong-uns within the gypsie community would be the same as any other group.Theoretically it should be true but in my opinion it is miles away from the truth.

As you can gather i have made up my mind and will not be swayed otherwise , however it is not my intention to influence others towards my way of thinking or recruit an anti gypsie following. Just because i dislike gypsies doesn't mean i will act upon that and create any harm towards that group. Quite simply i just try to avoid gypsies at all times. This is only protect myself and those close to me from any harm /incident that may occur.

I'm not suggesting there are no wrong-uns within the non gypsie community because we all know there is , but an observation i've noticed is that some of them weild weapons. I can think of about 6 occassions where i've seen a gypsie handle a gun , not used to shoot anyboby but simply just for showing off to other gypsies. I recall eating in a takeaway once and these gypsies pulled one out at the table they were eating and started polishing it with some vinegar as if he was polishing a medal.What sort of behaviuor is that in society.Also when i was a kid  a gypsie kid hung around with us and we were all fascinated with the pistol he kept in his pants which he used to shoot rabbits and hedgehogs , is that normal ? Fair enough 6 occasions does not represent the whole gypsie community but outside of this community i cant ever recall seeing a gun outside of a controlled enviorment. I can also say the same about some of them wielding knives.

I know the PC brigade and gypsie Fan Club are loving my posts and think I'm a nutter but I'm being honest and in my opinion there are many many silent Blonde members out there who would agree with me.

"As you can gather i have made up my mind and will not be swayed otherwise , however it is not my intention to influence others towards my way of thinking"


If that's the case I can't for the life of me imagine why you read this thread or contribute to it.

I find this topic interesting including some of the views posted on here. Just because i am in the minority on here doesn't mean i can't air an opinion. A lot of posts on this forum include sarcasm and risque innuendo's which seems perfectly acceptable but when on this topic i say something which some members disagree with you all come out and form a gypsie Fan Club.

If we made this physical out in the playground of Blonde Head Quarters I'm sure your supporters will by far exceed mine. If we took it to the council estate 3 miles from where i live you and your gypsie Fan Club wouldn't stand a chance.

Just when I thought your posts couldnt get worse...

Do you think the council estate folk 3 miles from where you live are intelligent upstanding people?

I'm sure that would be the same for a lot of prejudiced views as well related to ethnic minorities, Muslims, gays, etc.  Not sure why a group of random people from a council estate will have different views to a group of people from a posh estate in the suburbs though.

A point that Tom brought up earlier that you didn't respond to (you might have missed it amongst all the other posts) asked how you 'know' who is a Gypsy and who isn't?  You have attributed a lot of anti-social behaviour to Gypsies, when I'm guessing you mean 'travellers' (small t, rather than travellers with a big T).  Tom also mentioned that you probably come into contact with a lot of Gypsies and you don't even know they are, because they are not acting in a way you expect Gypsies to behave. 

I'm not keen on travellers who carry out anti-social behaviour.  I'm not keen on black or Asian gangs who carry out crimes.  However, I not keen on people who live in houses who carry out anti-social behaviour, or white gangs who engage in criminal activities.  The key part there is I don't like what they DO, what they ARE (in terms of race or skin colour, etc.) is irrelevant.  I think Islam is a horrible religion that promotes division and oppression (to non-Muslims, women, etc.), but that doesn't mean I hate Muslims.  I dislike a lot of what America stands for, but have nothing against American people. 

Obv you aren't referring to all people that live on a council estate ??

No, you're getting me wrong. I'm not questioning your right to post your opinions, I'm I'm questioning your reasoning for bothering with this thread if you don't want to influence anyone and refuse to be influenced yourself.

I really don't understand your fan club comments, are people not allowed to agree with some of the things I say, or disagree with you?

As for your "Take it out to the playground comments", If you were to give me a good hiding what would that prove?

Is that how you win your arguments?

 ;frustrated; ;frustrated; ;frustrated;

And if I went and stood outside the BNP HQ and said "I wish all foreigners would just F*ck off, I hate them all" I'd probably have plenty supporters..doesn't mean it's an acceptable thing to say though.


Obv innuendo and sarcasm is on the same level as racism...you're right about that...it's obvious really. Why didn't I think of that?

blooming 'eck that's me fked then. 


I wish. 


fnar fnar.


bollox.

Think about what you've just typed there. Don't have an opinion either way about it. Lucky for you the Council Estate Fan Club can't afford computers.

I wish people would just get to the point and bury it in a dark hole already. Wait, whats obvious?

I accept what you are saying , i understand now. My multiple responses were to balance out the debate , it seemed to be one sided. I can also understand if others think i was trying to influence them , which is not the case.

As for the "playground "comment it was maybe a unsuccessful attempt at an analogy. Succinctly , from the area i live i would have more supporter than yourself. Nothing actually to do with knocking your block off.

Obv it is a stupid thing to imply that people from council estates or not intelligent, I'm sure we all know that. But if Cos says 95% of people he has met from council estates were dumb then we are just going around in circles again with the same argument..

In the end of the day, if someone judges a whole race on the acts of a mere few, over a small sample size if you will, then they are ignorant, judgmental and for a better phrase most probably a dick head.

Obv still hate gingers tho!

Travellers ARE what they DO. The clue is in the name.

Gypsies are what they do?

As for you point about 'travellers' - yes, they have a nomadic lifestyle.  That doesn't mean they all engage in anti-social behaviour and crime - otherwise they'd be called 'criminals'.

Gypsy is not what you do, it is the way you are born.

I know quite a few Gypsies who have never lived in a caravan.


You can't decide to be a Gypsy, and you can't decide not to be a Gypsy.

Some areas of the country have been affected more than others by gypsies. So therefore the opinion in my area is quite negative towards gypsies. This is based their anti social behaviour and the consequences to the area during their frequent stays.

I probaby passed thousands of gypsies in my car or on the street. Some I've noticed , some I've not  but my view is formed around the ones I've had social interaction with. How many do i need to interact with to form an opinion ? Like i said its in the hundreds over the years ,is that enough ?

I'm not keen on anti social behaviour like anyone else , but the ones who partake in these activities are in a minority within their own group , that i have noticed.

Your point about Islam and America is what i am saying about gypsies.

Yes, to the extent that it may affect the broad legitimacy of prejudice against them. Per my previous post....a large part of their identity comes from what they do...travel. They don't really find permanent roots in and among communities. If a Romani decides to settle in the house next door to acc2020, with family in tow, do you think that the prejudice would still be there 100% in the same way it would with a gay/black/jewish/muslim person next door to someone who hated them? Probably not. The fact that they don't settle/integrate (and maybe by extension don't feel the need to conform to social norms) is what breeds the suspicion and ill-will more than a blind out-group bias?

WTF? I thought they were all thick fuckwits? Shit that's what they taught me at public school anyway, I learn something new every day  :dontask: ;D

No, that's 'travellers'.  Read Tom's post above.  Gypsies are a race, you're born a Gypsy. 

You say they're affected by Gypsies.  You know they're Gypsies?  Your next-door neighbour, are they Gypsies?  The bank manager, is he a Gypsy? 

My point about Islam and Americans is not the same as what you're saying about Gypsies at all, don't misrepresent me.  I don't have a 'position' on Muslims or Americans before I meet them - I treat them as individuals, not on preconceived stereotypes.  I do the same with Welsh, Greeks, Japanese, English, Scots - even the Dutch.

So 'gypsies' and 'travellers' have nothing to do with each other then? Gypsies just settle into brick and morrar society just like your average non-gypsy? The fact that people are born Gypsy doesn't generally lead to a set of social behaviours that are different from the norm?

But if you detest the islamic religion, and someone introduces themselves as an adherent of it, would it not follow that you then dislike them in some way as a result?

Gypsy a race of people.  I don't know the figures for how many live the 'traditional' nomadic lifestyle and how many opt to live in bricks and mortar houses.  Maybe Tom does?

Some Gypsies are travellers, some aren't.  Gypsies aren't Travellers though ;)

No.  I might dislike them if they carry out actions that I think are discriminatory against others - but that would be me making a decision based on what they DO, not what they ARE.  There are atheists who I despise, not for their religious views, but for how they act and treat others.  Your faith is irrelevant, that's a personal thing.  How you act and treat others should be how people react and treat you.

@ Manuel'smum

Gypsies and travellers are not the same thing.

What you're doing by calling travellers and Gypsies the same thing is like me calling all Asians "Pakistanies"

No, Gypsies and travellers have nothing to do with each other.

Gypsies are more often than not forced into bricks and mortar by circumstance rather than choice.

Yes, being born a Gypsy does lead to a set of behaviours that are different from the norm, but that doesn't necessarily mean it's anti-social behaviour.

not the greatest post due to the stereotypical debate on this thread

i hope i have taken this the wrong way but this looks like you think people who live on council estates ain't  very bright? and not very upstanding?

ok tyty

Someone needs to sort wikipedia out cos it's confusing as fek

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/English_Travellers_%28disambiguation%29

It doesn't bother me that someone was born a gypsie. What does concern me is if they are in the area my alloy wheels may go missing or the my gararge roof slates may go overnight. Don't say its just sterotyping because its a common occurance.

Maybe its just my area , maybe the gypsies in Kensington or Henley upon Thames or wherever you live don't do that sort of thing.

Ok thanks, understood

That last bit is true of any social group you want to choose.  For example, there are many groups who say that their group places a greater emphasis on the 'family' than other groups - but it's often the case that many others think exactly the same.  People just recognise that element of their own group because they exist within it and see it close up.  They don't necessarily see the same thing in other groups.  I'm not sure Gypsies are necessarily behaving outside the 'norm' more than other groups, I think that's what most groups probably consider themselves to do.  (Not sure that makes sense, but I know what I mean).

No I don't Ray but I can see why you'd think that as I haven't worded it great.

I'm not saying all people in council estates are x,y,z - I'm just saying they must be bad sorts/unintelligent if they share acc's views but ya might delete as its worded terrabadly.

It's stereotyping.

Don't try and weasel yourself out of this , just say what you think. I knew what you meant.

It's quite difficult, what with all the different caravan dwelling groups. New Age Travellers for instance are just members of the settled community who fancy trying the Gypsy lifestyle, but if they commit a crime the press are happy to call them Gypsies.

I recently attended an APPG meeting in the house of Lords (Unashamed brag) and one of the items on the agenda was who can and cannot be defined as a Gypsy.

http://www.derbyshiredales.gov.uk/Images/Inter-Agency%20Guidance_tcm19-84813.pdf

At what point does sterotyping become fact.

If i had supper with 1000 chinese families and conclude they like rice , can i use that to form an opinion or is that still sterotyping ?

We're talking about negative, and hence dangerous stereotyping here.

It's amazing how badly civilised people can behave when prompted by a little negative stereotyping.

Read up on the events that took place during the holocaust.

I actually read the sentence as Cos asking whether Acc202 actually thought this and if so he/she was more stupid than some of us already think. Just shows how we can all read things differently.

Thanks for letting this run Tom, fascinating albeit disturbing.

Geo

Just caught up with this thread (Im away travelling!) and I have to say LOOOOLLLLLLLLLLLLL!
Thank you acc2020, for being a perfect example of some of the unbeleivable people out there. Reading as you try to justify yourself, Alf Garnet style, fail, and desend into mardy rants and "My dads bigger than your dad" type threats was hilarious.
I would like to think you are some kind of comedy genius, writing spoof posts to wind people up, but sadlly, your just a prat.

If however, you should find your opinions change (I doubt it, you cant knock a nail in a knot) you are welcome to join the gypsie (sic) Fan club.
Let me know and I'll send you a badge and a signed photo
Peace out x

Yeah I know, I changed my post as at first I was just pissed off with the thread but realised I think I know you well enough to know you ain't that stupid.

If someone starts a diary about being a heroin addict but is a really nice person will your views change on that also ? There isn't that much difference between your posts on the Amy Winehouse thread and acc's posts itt.

Also, just to add, and pretty much what Mantis said, I never thought it was a bad idea for the comments to say up, my issue was with the fact that I didn't, and don't, believe that it's fair that this should stay up because Tom is personally effected by the comments but others don't, but if this is a perk of being a mod then for the bs you all take, fair enough. I'm baffled by people suggesting that they only reason people are bothered about the racism is because someone in this community is being racialized against, why is it that someone has to be directly effected by something to care about it, are we really all that narrow minded. For a change this isn't a drunken rant on a Friday night, it just really pisses me off how ignorant people are, I'm guilty of ignorance myself sometimes but I at least try to have empathy for others and not to prejudge people, something clearly some itt don't, i'd hate to live like that.

phatomch was banned over a few stories of his fondness of powders and ladies of the night

mondatoo might just be my favourite person in the whole world after the last couple of weeks (although he was always there or thereabouts, obv)

Nice stuff

fwiw its definitely not a mod perk. Just the reasons Tom described himself earlier in the thread. After all there is expert knowledge to impart, and I think a lot of people have learnt stuff from the discussions on this subejct on here over several years

I accept we'll see the other side of this when a (for example) anti-muslim/Islam thread gets taken down for inappropriate posts, as has happened before 

 

I understand it's tough to find the balance and I think you got this one right, gl with the rest  ;)

An official mod fanboy.

I should probably just log off and not bite lest I start coming across all germaine greer, but meh.

I'm pretty sure your friend wasn't banned because of those stories, rather the derogatory terms in which he spoke about women. tbh he came across as a complete misogynist.  One could argue (with some justification perhaps), that there is sexist stuff posted on the forum day-in day-out that goes unchecked.  There's a very large grey area over what is lighthearted banter and what is going too far, and stuff that might be deemed to be 'sexist' is probably among the most difficult for the mods to judge on, particularly given the make up of the forum nowadays - i'm sure a lot of stuff that is deemed 'fine' now wouldn't have been posted a few years back when there was a much higher proportion of active female members and the tone of the place was somewhat different.

i'm pretty sure there aren't many people who would not have been able to see why the stuff phatomch posted before his ban was well clear of the grey area and into the realms of 'unacceptable' though.

you sir are typical of the pc nimbys who i detest. i have more respect for someone who calls me a chinky to my face than the likes of you. you are on here whiter than white trying to defend Gypsies because Tom is a mate of yours pure and simple. yet you leave a sick taste in my mouth because underneath you are racist. why do you find the need to give an example  of why you think Islam is a horrible religion (which is bigoted and ill informed) yet you do not give  an example of what you dislike about America. i get a ban for calling you a neo n*** yet nothing is done about your mate using similar words and his comment allowed to be left on the thread.

as a member of a minority group your comments leave a bitter taste in my mouth and i know its the likes of you that do more harm to society than the shaven haired kid marching through the streets of blackburn chanting his slogans. i see you for what you are and you are dangerous to have as an administrator/ moderator because you can abuse this power. i feel so strongly about it that i got out of bed to fire up my laptop so i could highlight your quote because i cant do it on my phone. i had you down as a decent enough chap to stake you in something last month and a lot of guys who i respect have told me you are ok but i now have my doubts

disclaimer: this could be the last post i make on this site if it is removed.

Thanks for that Herbie. That's just brilliant. Don't think I really need to answer that, you've really said it all.

Rsq reveal might just be the spiciest one yet...

This has been a fascinating debate. In the last few pages I've learnt Kin hates Islam, Cos mocks the poor, Jason is a "chinky" and Claw wastes time posting when she could be ironing.

rotflmfao..Herbieherbieherbie. Bless ya, I think you're funny as hell and you come across as a nice guy but you really need to learn how to read between the lines in some posts mate. Or even just re-reading the lines would do.

i aint very good at this internet thing. i dont have time to read what other people write and only pick  out the odd word. the real reason i spend so much time on here is re reading my own posts because they are some of the funniest and best things about the site ;)

Herbie you've been logged in for 34days and 8 hours, considering you've only been posting since like march that's a hell of a lot.

Tbh Alex this site is my window to the outside world and most of the adult conversation is on here. The kids take up most of my time and this is about the only thing I do on the Internet . Imagine how much rake I could have made or how big the Smashedagain thread would be if I started all my arguments on that thread instead of every other one.

Am feeling a lot of love from a lot of people on here ATM and my friend requests on sadbook went through the roof. One status on there regarding not being able to get back on here had like 50 comments. Tbh most of em were from tighty offering to fight my friends lol

Stereotyping is fundamental to our personal survival obv so stereotyping per se is an important acquired skill rather than something to be scorned.

Discrimination abounds across all cultures, races, creeds etc.

For the Hindi women where I work (think I might have used this example before) they would be mortified (in order of mortification) if their children married:

a) Someone black
b) A muslim
c) A caucasian
d) Someone from the wrong caste

Muslims and Jews aren't too keen on including in people from other faiths into their families

Gypsies are pretty keen on ensuring their kids marry Gypsies

Radical atheists (as opposed to the indifferent or uninterested) seem to find something to hate or mock in every person with a declared faith.

In general, I think the most tolerant people are me, although I'm not keen if a man tries to touch my bottom.

I would like to say that Mantis may be my second favourite person in the world, but I know he's a lone ranger and wouldn't like that kind of schizzle, so I won't.

I have been reading this thread with interest as i have lived in a town in Ireland that has a lot of Travellers associated with it for the last 10 years and am always hearing locals giving out about the "knackers"  but i myself have never been the victim of any crime while living here nor have i ever felt threatened or uncomfortable.
So i thought i would do some research and stumbled across a document published by the Irish Chaplaincy in Britain link below
 http://www.irishchaplaincy.org.uk/travellers.asp 
now this is a fairly dry report from a charity that are clearly trying to do some good and to help the Travellers that find themselves in prison with their literacy and overcome the settled communities prejudice and i wish them every success.

however, the report states that estimates are that 20-30,000 Irish Travellers live in England and Wales and a survey done in Sept 2010 found that 450 were in prison although they felt this was vastly understated and the number was closer to 800. so i did some maths (it's in my nature) there are about 50 million people in England and Wales and about 80,000 of them are in prison about 1 in 625, if we take the mid points of the reports estimates and say 600 out of the 25,000 Travellers are in jail we get a figure of 1 in 42 ish meaning an Irish Traveller taken at random is FIFTEEN times more likely to be in jail (therefore a criminal?) than someone taken from the general population.
does this mean all Travellers are crooks? obviously not
does this mean it's OK to "hate all Travellers"? of course not
is it OK to be more wary if a group of Travellers move into your neighbourhood? probably yes

it's been stated many times that every ethnicity or social group has good and bad people within it which of course is right but not every group has good and bad in the same proportion some have a higher percentage of bad and its not always just perception.

Not really the right use of statistics I'm afraid, moon.

I am sure someone will go into a large spiel soon and explain exactly how you can't say " a larger % of travellers are in jail and therefore you should be more wary if they move into your neighbourhood".

"What are they in jail for?" is one question I'd ask.
"Are they more likely to be put in jail?" is another (not saying they are BTW)
"Is the type of crime non-travellers commit different and is that why % wise the travellers have a larger% in jail?" is a third.

Many, many questions like that that I would ask.

One set of statistics can be misinterpreted in many ways and be used to represent a simplified view. I'm afraid that that is kind off what your reasoning is as well. Many shades of grey but it's easier to make something look black and white, it's what the tabloids do when they use reports like this as well.

the report did go on to break down why they were in jail and Irish travellers were less likely to be in for drug or sexual offences than the general prison population but more likely to be in for burglary or theft. link below page 27 i think

http://www.iprt.ie/files/Voices_Unheard_June_20112.pdf

q2 as a Traveller does not have a brick and mortar address they are more likely to kept in on remand i believe
q3 i dont think so, I would imagine sex and drugs offences are just as likely to get you put in jail as burglary and theft.

I am well aware that statistics can be misleading but fifteen times more likely is an awful lot dont you think, can it all be down to discrimination or the skewing of statistics or is there something inherently broken with the way in which the Irish Travellers lifestyle and culture that make them more likely to commit a crime ? a bit of both i would think.
 and remember i got the numbers and info from a charity that is trying to help the Irish traveller community not some right wing group.

I would imagine the stats are some way off and there are additional factors like the inability to implement community orders that affect the results. But whatever, for arguments sake let's say those stats are accurate and we are using them to decide what's good and bad like you have. The way I would choose to interpret those figures is they tell me only 1-2% of Gypsies are in prison and bad. Thus 98-99% of Gypsies are not in prison and good. So when you run into a random Gypsy the probability is well in your favour they will be good.

Referring back to my ridic aces example. If somebody goes all-in during a comp and we look down to find aces there is no hesitation. We are totally committed and confident that this is good. We would never fold because a 85% chance of a good outcome and only a 15% chance of a bad outcome is overwhelming odds. We are certain to expect good. Yet when we switch to people a 98%-2% stat is supposed to prove a bad expectation is a reasonable attitude to carry thru life. That's like worrying about the last time aces lost and folding them. Why do we suddenly lose all our confidence when it comes to people? It all depends what attitude you want in life. These opinions are like a milestone to carry around with you really and I find it pointless because almost every random we meet will be decent. The stats prove that. So writing an article about a 1 or 2% stat and focussing on it is like writing an article suggesting you should fold aces. It's just a waste of time to live like that.

sweet ty tonto

One of the better posts on here. Interesting use of statistics. Also interesting is that the very next post is rubbishing your use of statistics , maybe because its doesn't fit very well with the pro gypsie camp.

You ask is it OK to be more wary if gypsies move into the neighbourhood and answer yes. This is my belief too.

A few have refered to me as a racist ,bigot and unintelligent. Maybe i am or maybe i'm not  doesn't really bother me what names i get called but let me ask one question , if when a group sets up camp near my home and i take precautions like purchasing extra locks and parking my car in the garage instead of on the drive.Is that an act of a racist , bigot and somebody unintelligent ? Would you deem me the villain ?

A lot of posters on this thread are in the pro gypsie camp ( despite having no contact with them but are giving their 37p worth ), a few are neutral and it seems i'm alone on my stance. This is not reflective of the view of the wider public whether the majority on here are right or wrong.Those of you who want to google the "why people dislike gypsies " debate you will find many many more posters like myself and realise it is you guys in the minority not me.

If you exclue my posts and Greeksteins faux pas about the council estate being dumb  you must agree this is this is the most rediculous post yet.

98% of a population is good because they are not in prison is absoltely stupid , never mind the fact he was refering to gypsies too. That figure refects the ones they've caught but what about the ones they haven't ?

Anybody not in prison must be good people.

More than happy to be in the minority in this case

Geo

Acc, Boldie's probably right, there are just so many other factors that you need to consider, that you can't rely on %incarceration on its own as an indication of %criminality.
Just been checking out the relative stats for black incarceration, it's pretty staggering. However I do think they get arrested more often.
In the USA black men are 6x more likely to be incarcerated than white men. Why is this?

You didn't know this already?

I'm well aware these are just stats and is one persons interpretation of the figures. Incarceration does not implicitly mean someone is a criminal , i know that.  I had a friend who is a heroin addict , i had known him for over 30 years and gave him a lift a few times. The police spotted me with him and for the next few weeks i noticed i was frequently followed by undercover police cars. My house was raided for suspicion of supplying drugs and i spent a few hours in a police cell for protesting my innocence. I don't even smoke cigarettes. All this because i gave a junkie a lift on a few occasions. So yes i understand.

You do have to take notice that gypsies are more likely to end up in prison than the general population. Anybody who believes MANTIS01's theory that 98% are good law abiding citizens because they are not locked up are pretty naive.

I love black people

I'd just like to declare right away that I'm very racist, sexist, ageist and I don't like certain breeds of duck. The other thing I don't like are numbers people have pulled out of their arse.

I suspect acc2020s estimate that 75% of Gypsys are bad eggs is well off.

-There will more than likely be bad eggs that he'e counted as Gypsies who are not Gypsies.

-There will almost certainly be Gypsies he's met who were good eggs, but he was unaware that they were Gypsies.

-The Gypsy bad eggs probably get about a bit more than the Gypsy good eggs. For example your Gypsy good egg knocks on 12 doors and spends the rest of his day doing a driveway. The Gypsy bad egg knocks on 12 doors, takes a deposit, buggers off, knocks on 12 more doors, takes a deposit and buggers off etc etc. The end result is the Gypsies that cross his radar are not  necessary a representative sample of Gypsies.

End the post with a pithy short paragraph.

I wish to correct you there about my estimate. I have had some sort of social interaction with hundreds of gypsies mainly through the course of work , and out of them i would say 75% come across as rude , obnoxious scheming and untrustworthy. I'm not including the probable thousands I've walked / driven past / not noticed. The actual figure of bad eggs could be 10% , 25%, 60% but the 75% is what i have experienced personally.

How many subjects of a particular culture / race /group do i need meet to be able to form an opinion about them.

Why cant i have my opinion having met with say 400. Does that figure need to reach 1000 before i can form an opinion or do i need to meet every single one of them ?

Some of you guys have opinions having not much contact with them. If you believe 98% or 85% are good people  that's up to you , you are entitled to think that just like if i think the total opposite then I'm entitled to think that too.

http://www.topix.com/forum/topstories/T6TP3U2GKPBPDACQP

http://www.rebron.org/2007/02/27/why-i-hate-blacks-asians/

http://wiki.answers.com/Q/Why_do_some_white_people_dislike_black_people

http://uk.answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20110605124434AAuJVUh

http://www.facebook.com/topic.php?uid=25405097484&topic=9995

in short 24,900,000 results (0.09 seconds) on why people dislike black people.

Do you want to to google why we should hate Jews and Asians?

I was referring to the set of people that you have had interactions with but you did not know they were Gypsies because they weren't trying to hawk you spme clothes pegs that their womenfolk have whittled out of firewood.

May well be that your mechanic actually is a Gypsy.

Where I live in North Yorkshire there are a ton load of Pikeys/gypos/travellers or whatever pc description you want to call them, and they are known for thieivng/stealing from all the shops on the business park where I work, they make out they are after your pallets or scrap metal then steal whatever, in the last couple of months....a van was stolen when parked for reloading, and worst of all a customers van was stolen with his dog in the cab and left....thankfully the van and dog was recovered minus the tools!!!

You forgot to mention I HATE THE DUTCH!!!!

a ton load of Pikeys/gypos/travellers or whatever pc description you want to call them,

Not sure who they are eh? Difficult to tell isn't it? Easier to just lump them all together and throw a couple of derogatory terms in for good measure.

Do all the Gypsies and Travellers in your area come to the business park where you work and steal things? If so, there must be quite a crowd. Do they form a queue?

Could it be that just the odd one or two people who you suspect to be Gypsies or Travellers come to steal while the rest (Or at least some) are honest, decent, hard-working people?

Does it not worry you that some innocent people might get caught up in your accusations?

What happened to the people who stole the van, I presume they were arrested?


 

Look back at some of the stuff that's been posted on this thread, and then try to imagine what its like to be a Gypsy boy of 7 or 8 years old rolling up for his first day at school in a new town.

Imagine what it's like when he's 16 or 17 and gets stopped by the police.

Imagine what it's like when he's 30 with a family of small children asleep in his caravan and half a house brick comes through the window in the middle of the night.

Imagine what it's like when he's 53 and finds links like this every day.

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=anti-gypsy%20device

Imagine what it's like when he's trying to explain these things to his grandchildren, who incidentally will be rolling up for their first day at school in a new town tomorrow.

No he ran away and was never found....

But he was identified?

BTW- Why did you only answer the one question?

The customer had seen him around before...tbf the older generation are always very polite, its the young uns! (yes maybe like the rest of the population...)

100% sure what group they were from, easy to tell where I live (the vans, the contents, the children with them (always mulllets) ), no queue just have to be very alert when their vans arrive, yes the older ones seem to have more respect, sorry to the innocents...;)

If you look back on this thread you will see the majority of people have a positive and tolerant attitude. If you show a young Gypsy kid this thread they will see how people responded to your daughter's post and embraced the points she raised. They would see lots of gorgers agreeing with your views even though they have nothing to gain from doing so. So if you focus on the majority view you can show the kid that the world is generally a good place and if you do the right thing and you are respectful to others you will get a fair chance from most. You could focus your attention on the minority and the minority could occupy and colour your thoughts but that's the mistake the anti-Gypsy brigade make.

I do teach my kids that the world is basically a good place, (Witness my daughter's post) because despite everything, that is what I truly believe.

The ones with that rat tails are they gypsies or travellers?

I don't know what you mean by "Ones"

Are you asking if all people with a rat's tail hairstyle is a Gypsy or a Traveller?

I think i found your culprit sledge, I've forwarded the pic to the cops

What the hell is wrong with you these days?

Some of your posts, particularly on here are nothing short of idiotic.

he said he had thrown a 180 and hit a hole in one on the other thread :)

I lolled.

He's a massive troll atm.

whats that avatar about? have you ran it by the powers that be....you know how thick i am Cos, the other day i had my screen magnified  or something and could not see two inches either . got straight on to tighty to find out why we had lost the sky sponsorship :)

It must cause you massive difficulty to not see two inches. :)

yeah funniest thing i ever heard was stood having a leak next to my best mate. he looked down at me and said "how interesting, that looks like a penis...only smaller"

was he looking down?

yes obv....look my wife enjoys it or at least lies well

Hahaahh, n1!

I'm a bit confused now.  Is it the people with mullets or people with rat's tails I need to be wary of?  I think I might just err on the side of caution and presume anyone who isn't bald is probably a wrong un.  better safe than sorry.

BOTH!  The ones that arn't wrong uns blend in and you don't know that they are 'them', mullets and rats tails on the other hand give the game away!!!  ;)

 ;kneelsucker;

wiiiiiiiiii

This will have the positive side effect that you can safely distrust all women which is never a bad thing.

firstly I would like to apologise and thank Red, with posting this thread I didn't mean to strike up a hornets nest, just purely get his respected opinions on if this show gave a fair report of the traveller lifestyle/world.

Now at the moment my father has to go to court to give evidence against a group of travellers (not sure of origin or group) as they have stolen off his company property and when he confronted them and took photos on his phone they threatened him and even went as far as trying to following him home (but he noticed and went straight to police station , whilst talking to them so police were waiting).

This does not in any way tar my view of the traveller community and those small mionded people should take note. The people who do wrong in any community are just a small part of it, not all people in tottenham went raiding and fighing last night, not all travelling folk are wronguns and not all setlled folk are good


 

Very safe bet IMO.

+1

google search results

why i hate English 363.0m
why i hate Justin bieber 120m
why i hate asians 112.0m
why i hate Arabs 98.9m
why i hate Irish 63.2m
why i hate Blacks 27.1m
why i hate Jews 25.3m
why i hate Cheryl cole 20.6m
why i hate Americans 17.3m
why i hate Gypsies 15.5m
why i hate Germans 11.5m
why i hate Muslims 2.5m

Which demostrates that hatred of Justin Beiber is 8 times more important to the internet than hatred of Gypsies.

This tread needs more hatred of the important things like JB and the english.

So that means that Kinboshi with his hatred of Muslims is in a minority of haters.

Should we all start (or continue) to hate Kinboshi for being a minority himself?

Dislike Islam, not Muslims. Same with Christianity, not Christians.  Obviously dislike tall, bald Dutchmen though.


;indestructable; Can I join too?

what the fuck i was gonna lend you a saw ...bollocks to that now

You're not Dutch or that tall either.  I'm hardly in a position to be critical of the follicly-challenged am I!?  No, it's a combination of those three things that makes a person evil.

cool

i managed to find you a see saw aswell

I was after a sawfish.  Can you still help?

Does a sawfish have a sea saw?

:D

Some do, some don't.  Swings and roundabouts.

groansome post but as boshi is nearly bald, and therefore ok, i'm gonna let it slide.

Lots of right-on posters on this thread.

"We're talking about negative, and hence dangerous stereotyping here.

It's amazing how badly civilised people can behave when prompted by a little negative stereotyping.

Read up on the events that took place during the holocaust."

LMAO!  Someone is comparing a poster's distrust of the travelling community with the Nazis.  Get a hold of yourselves!  I haven't really given my thoughts towards the gypsies must consideration I must confess, but I'd imagine they coudn't give a monkeys about what either the people who don't like them, or the lefty PC gimps think on an internet forum.

I've just noticed someone has compared attitudes towards gypsies with a poker tournament hand.  That makes my eyes bleed. 

Do you work for the Daily Mail?

You are aware of what happened to Gypsies during WWII?

he may not have meant you :)

Why would you imagine that? Do you imagine that Gypsies have no feelings?

I'm a Gypsy, and I care about what people think about me.

BTW- Did you know that 600,000 Gypsies, men, women and children, were murdered during the holocaust? (Hitler didn't trust the Gypsies either)

He didn't mean me - it was Tom who he quoted.

Lets be serious - does anyone here honestly think the current travelling community are at any kind of risk from the Holocaust mark II?  

Did anyone think 600,00 Gypsies, or 6 million Jews were at risk before holocaust 1?

Mr Red Dog - if one of the earlier posters complained that a member of your community stole from him and as a result that has darkened his view of travellers then do you not think it is extreme to say they are stoking the fires of another potential holocaust?  

Do you think there are no genocides happening today?

 :)let Tom answer. the posts are left up for a reason and that is for Tom to answer as a Gypsie and not the lefty pc gimps to answer. you may be anti religion but this thread is not your church either :)

What would you say are the odds of a genocide taking place in the UK at any time in the next 500 years?  Do you not think it is extreme for you to use this as an argument against a previous poster?

Doesn't stop you trolling and posting idiotic nonsense does it?

:)

Not when an entire race of people are held responsible for the actions of the few.

Do you not think it's extreme to post things like "I hate fkin pikeys" on a public forum?

you've seen my new job title. you want to stop me you have the power to pull the plug. fml promised the wife i would try real hard today. pulling the plug would do me a favour. lets both leave it. this thread is better with both of us two not in it

Tom - perhaps I should explain my position more clearly before this gets out of hand:

1) I personally have no real view on the gyspsy community.  I haven't met enough people to form an opinion.
2) However, I think the "PC gimps" in this country prevent a proper discussion on immigration.
3) I think this country is starting to become negatively affected by excess immigration from the EU.  (I am anti EU both in terms of open borders and in terms of the bureaucratic waste of space politicians in Brussels).
4) I have seen similar traits on this thread (i.e. the minority of posters who have critisized the gypsy community have been shouted down as opposed to it being open for debate)
5) I think the ultimate outome of "PC gimps" stifling debate by waving the race card will be to breed silent resentment which is bad for both sides.
6) I apologise for not realising that you are in fact a gypsy so better placed to comment, but I still think your raising of the holocaust is too extreme an argument against the other posters.

Hope this clarifies my position.

"Do you not think it's extreme to post things like "I hate fkin pikeys" on a public forum?"

Yes I would say it is extreme.  I haven't seen that post but would agree that is poor.

This thread would normally have been deleted. I spacifically requested that it be left up for the very reason you suggest, i.e. dabate.

If those who criticise the Gypsy community are shouted down, it is because people disagree with what they're saying. Isn't that what debate is all about?

What are "Gimps"?

Using the term "lefty PC gimps" really doesn't do much for your credibility if you are trying to make a serious point.

Says the person whose previous contribution was "Do you work for the Daily Mail?"

Why is it that when anyone has any political views which are right wing, the lefties think they are Daily Mail readers?  Or my favourite "The Daily Heil"  Ho Ho. 

Ok - lets replace "lefty PC gimps" with "politically correct left wingers"?  You know - they kind of people who like to take offence and express mock horror on behalf of other people?

How do you know it's mock horror?

Dungbeetle - the people who are responsible for open borders within Europe and facilitating easy immigration from EU countries to Britain are not the 'lefty PC gimps' but the right-wing capitalists and business interests.

I'd say there's a pretty good chance in that timescale

Perhaps.  But generally the capitalists won't hinder debate on a subject.  They may try and steamroller you, but the left wing will have called you racist in the blink of an eye if you bring it up thus kicking it into the long grass.   So if the righties (and I include Blair in that) were the biggest players in pushing it through, I'd say the lefties are the biggest obstacle to reversing it.

Why would anybody want to reverse it when it's entirely necessary in order for the country to prosper economically?

What do you think?



   
   





1915-1918:       Armenian Citizens                                  1 million

1933                Ukrainians                                             7 million

1939-1945        Gypsies in Concentration Camps               500,000

1939-1945        Serbians  in Concentration Camps            400,000

1939-1945          The mentally ill and physically
                       disabled in Concentration Camps             250,000

1939-1945         Jewish adults in Concentration Camps      4.5 million

1939-1945         Jewish children in Concentration Camps    1.5 million

1939-1945         Homosexuals in Concentration Camps      15,000

1939-1948          Germans ans Jews in Poland                 1.5 million

1945-1953          Russian Citizens  4 million

1945-2001          Vietnamese and citizens of Laos              1.6 million

1948-1987          North Korean citizens                            1.3 million

1949-1987          Chinese citizens                                    3.5 million

1965-1966          Indonesian citizens                                 100,000

1971                  Pakistani Bengalis                                   1.5 million

1975-1979          Cambodian citizens                                 1.5 million

1987-1988          Iraqi Kurds                                            100,00

1991-1992          Croation citizens                                     20,000

1992-1995          Muslim women raped in Bosnia                20,000

1992-1995          Bosnian children killed                             17,000

1992-1995          Bosnian children injured                          34,500

1992-1995          Bosnian Muslims                                     200,00

1993-1994          Rwandans                                             1 million in 100 days

1983-Present      Sudanese citizens                                   2 million
           
2002-Present      Democratic Republic of Congo                  4 million

2002-Present     Darfur                                                   400,000

2008-Present     Kenya                                                   500 and rising

yes - if you want cheap labour and to pay for layer upon layer of bureaucracy.  Anyway - this isn't the thread to discuss the merits or otherwise of the EU.

Red - how many of those took place in the UK? 

Anyway - just to get back onto the point, I've tried to isolate the post the guy made that has caused so much outrage - is it this one?

"I know that my views sound anti gypsy , which they are , but it is based on my experience of them over the years and i would say i disliked probably 90% of the ones I've met. Saying that I'm sure there are ones who are pleasant and the total opposite to the ones in my area."

If so, although it's clumsily put, hasn't he actually based his judgements on gyspies he has actually met as opposed to blanket discrimination?  Or is there another more sinister post I have missed?

So it can happen anywhere, except the UK?

Do you think Gypsies, and the prejudice against them is confined to the UK?

Did you see what happened in France last year?

I wonder what the answer would have been if you'd asked "Do you think Genocide could happen in Germany in the next 50 years?" around the turn of the last century.

It depends what you are referring to as outrage.

Read the entire thread and quote the "outrage" posts if you want a specific answer.

Lots of posts have been removed from the thread as they were overtly racist.  Ones like that (that although I'd consider it misguided and misinformed, aren't overtly racist) have been left as part of the 'debate'.

Ah okay - I didn't realise that posts have been removed.

Point taken raised by Red and someone else about whether the prospect of genocide was likely in Germany in 1900.

"Did you see what happened in France last year?"

No what happened?

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/09/16/france-to-face-roma-gypsy_n_719381.html

If someone is in the country illegally don't you think that country has the right to deport them?

You will need to educate me - the Roma people would be welcome as citizens of where?  Romania?  Or do they have "no fixed abode" as it were from a national perspective?

Actually - aren't Romania in the EU?  If so, on what basis are France kicking them out? 

Precisely.

nope cant help there sorry boshi

i have a spare slide/swing/see-saw combo and throw in a goldfish?

WoW interesting stats.

I think the 'Rome' in Romania comes from it being the last Roman colony and isn't anything to do with the 'Roma' in Romany - I don't think Gypsies are particularly actually welcome in Romania

" I hate fkin pikeys " if i recall was posted by somebody lightheartedly referencing a film , as opposed to somebody making that claim. I have however said i " dislike gypsies " for reasons x,y and z which in a nutshell is the way they appear to conduct themselves in public. My reasoning did not include things like their physical features , their clothes , the way they breed , their caravans or what they eat , which are some reasons why some people hate certain races.

Have you given any consideration why there are so many people outside of his forum who dislike gypsies as opposed to shooting us down and dissecting what we have to say. Somebody mentioned a spate of burglaries on a business park but that was responded by with questions. Does it matter which clan they're from ? Another post mentioned mentioned the number of gypsies in prison and that was responded by questions . Does it really matter what crime they perpetrated or what they had for breakfast ?

I know many members on here have children so you can understand how upset they were in my area when gypsies took over a playing field for a week which prevented them from using it. When they moved on they left all their rubbish which included glass drinks bottles , tin cans  and excrement so they couldn't use it until the local council cleaned it up.

I'm sure some of you have driven in town and noticed grates and manhole covers missing. Theres a section in our local paper which puts up a hotline number if you spot any missing. Its things like this which contribute towards the illfeeling towards gypsies. When they set up move in the area and set up camp should we welcome them with open arms ? Of course not , but that does not mean we are "small minded " or "bigots" like some of of you say.

Like i said previously it does seem disproportionate the amount of those in the pro gypsie camp on here . I do think it may be because they are just merely supporting fellow gypsie forum members ,not that theres anything wrong with that , its just giving an unbalanced debate.

Red Dog i probably agree with most of your comments and if i bumped into you , you would probably be one of those i do not notice.

Before anybody says anything missing manhole covers can also be attributed to non gypsies.

Life must be so good when one is a 'perfect human beng'

I'm not in the pro Gypsy camp. I don't have strong feelings either way. I am in the pro probability camp thou, esp when it's comes to people,  and that's why I gave that eg about our love for aces which made somebody's eyes bleed. Sorry about that fella.

Pretty much everyone is in agreement that there's a small % of bad in every race so this means the overwhelming % of any race are gonna be good people. Personally I don't want to go thru life carrying that burden of negativity and allowing the minority % of bad to colour my judgement about mostly good random people. I don't know what advantages holding on to that predjudice is supposed to offer me. I think it's very easy to pidgeon hole people in life and so the bad is easy to find if you're looking for it. That time I had a lot of Gypsies join my gym I had to ban one for naked jacuzzi sessions and within about 30 mins I had about a dozen Gypsies on my carpark with bats. That was fecked up and could easily have prejudiced me. Yet taking a step back I had well over a hundred Gypsies join my gym and only had problems with one. If I get pissy with all my good Gypsy members cos of that one Gypsy member I'm being illogical and also a bit bitter I think. Back to my poker eg's, sorry eye bleed man, a minority of the time aces will lose and that is the bad but there's a big difference in going around the whole time expecting them to lose. That seems like a horrible life attitude to me. Oh and Girgy's rats tail question made me howl, sorry.

Acc2020 I have 3 boys who mean the world to me and when I think about their park being taken over by Gypsies or travellers it would upset me a lot.  However when I read Toms posts and think about the prejudice that his kids and grand children have to go through all their lives I am deeply moved and so thankful my children won't have to go through it.  I am actually disgusted with myself that I could not see what was wrong with using the word g**o and that is used with far too much frequency in everyday life where we live.

Well played Herbie.

Was surprised at the American stats being so low, tried a couple of variations:

Why i hate Americans 16.4 mil
Why i hate America 78.1 mil
Why i hate USA 216 mil

I'm astounded that Americans are not higher and Why I hate English has 360 million. Lol at my naivety not realising we are the most hated race on the planet.

I was fairly surprised by those figures too but thinkign about it I am not sure it is a particularly accurate in terms of actual hatred.  I would imagine a disproportionate number of websites are owned and have servers in the States and less so in developing countries. Also more localised rivalries in this part of the world.  If you do a search for why I hate the British it is a fair bit lower for example.

Not seen many rat tails or mullets amongst the recent rioters/looters.

"Why I hate English" incorporates those who dislike the subject at school, rather than just the people from the country of England.

What hairstyles have you seen amongst rioters and looters matt? I've seen hoods and hats.

Good thinking Boshhmeister, Good thinking. I knew there had to be something more to it. That makes me feel a bit happier about myself as part of a nation now. Phew!

Still 363M for "why I hate the English".

So they hate the school subject AND they're not very good at it.

Only 10,000 if you put it into quotes though, which cuts out results like this one:

"Why I don't hate the English – Telegraph Blogs" which was fourth without quotes.