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Poll
Question: How will you vote on December 12th 2019
Conservative - 19 (33.9%)
Labour - 12 (21.4%)
SNP - 2 (3.6%)
Lib Dem - 8 (14.3%)
Brexit - 1 (1.8%)
Green - 6 (10.7%)
Other - 2 (3.6%)
Spoil - 0 (0%)
Not voting - 6 (10.7%)
Total Voters: 55

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Author Topic: The UK Politics and EU Referendum thread - merged  (Read 2180393 times)
kukushkin88
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« Reply #18495 on: June 28, 2019, 09:12:02 AM »


Leaving under the terms of the WA is acceptable to some, me included. Gets us out, a stepping stone until technology solves the border issue..and allows other stuff to be negotiated.

...and now it seems 26+ Labour MP's would probably vote for this. Finally seeing the light there is nothing in the WA that Labour should find so objectionable to warrant the crisis of this cliff edge. 
 The million dollar question is if Boris can somehow get a bit of movement on the backstop to bring along the ERG........then bingo we move into transition and then talk about the future.

This isn’t meant as a criticism but this is a very pro Tory shout (maybe it’s pragmatic). They have us in a massive hole, no government ever put us in a bigger hole.

Given the way we voted and where we are now, I would call it a national interest shout personally.

If Corbyn had thought about that perhaps his own party wouldn’t have slumped in the polls as well as the Tories.


No doubt in my mind that Corbyn has been terrible on Brexit throughout. We do need to remember how relatively small his ‘blame’ for the situation is compared to the main protagonists.
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« Reply #18496 on: June 28, 2019, 09:54:05 AM »

If we agree that in times of national crisis the obligation of the opposition leader is robust, decisive opposition showing clear alternative direction for the electorate. Leading to successful vote of no confidence, different direction and repair of damage then he is equally culpable.

He is only less culpable if our expectation of our opposition leader in times of national crisis is to sit on the sidelines saying nothing, doing nothing and failing to offer clarity of position
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« Reply #18497 on: June 28, 2019, 10:11:41 AM »

When Parliament had third vote it was only the WA voted on....basically the Irish "backstop", divorce bill and citizens' rights, it did not include a vote on the UK's future relationship with the EU.

That was when Corbyn could have stood up, accepted some compromise and moved the process forward in the national interest. All his talk about Customs Union etc could have been looked in the calm waters of the implementation period.
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« Reply #18498 on: June 28, 2019, 10:23:57 AM »

If we agree that in times of national crisis the obligation of the opposition leader is robust, decisive opposition showing clear alternative direction for the electorate. Leading to successful vote of no confidence, different direction and repair of damage then he is equally culpable.

He is only less culpable if our expectation of our opposition leader in times of national crisis is to sit on the sidelines saying nothing, doing nothing and failing to offer clarity of position

I’m talking about responsibility for causing the national crisis, his role in causing it really is quite small. He’s been a shambles in terms of his/Labour’s position on it. Which of them haven’t been really? Grieve has probably been the most impressive.
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« Reply #18499 on: June 28, 2019, 10:40:03 AM »

Here's the worst rating for every Leader of the Opposition since 1978 - new record broken this week
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« Reply #18500 on: June 28, 2019, 10:41:34 AM »

This has good detail in it

"So will a 'no deal' Brexit turn Kent into a lorry park? Empty the supermarket shelves?

Been pondering this from a) political b) technical perspective...coz I think optics will be key to what happens after a 'no deal'.

So...after some chats, here's what can be said "

https://twitter.com/pmdfoster/status/1144260266986811392
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« Reply #18501 on: June 28, 2019, 10:42:13 AM »

Remain alliance in Brecon and Radnor could be on the cards.

Greens have just said they won't stand. Other parties discussing giving Lib Dems a clear run at seat.

---

 Could provide proof of concept and increase demand for this to happen on a much larger scale in a general election.
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« Reply #18502 on: June 28, 2019, 10:44:34 AM »

For discussion

"One thing I never predicted about Brexit was how what it really meant was England leaving the EU. Most Brexiteers don’t seem to care if NI or Scotland come or go. It’s remarkable how weak British identity is turning out to be."
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« Reply #18503 on: June 28, 2019, 10:45:48 AM »

If we agree that in times of national crisis the obligation of the opposition leader is robust, decisive opposition showing clear alternative direction for the electorate. Leading to successful vote of no confidence, different direction and repair of damage then he is equally culpable.

He is only less culpable if our expectation of our opposition leader in times of national crisis is to sit on the sidelines saying nothing, doing nothing and failing to offer clarity of position

I’m talking about responsibility for causing the national crisis, his role in causing it really is quite small. He’s been a shambles in terms of his/Labour’s position on it. Which of them haven’t been really? Grieve has probably been the most impressive.

Considering the closeness of the referendum result and the ineffectiveness of his campaign I would disagree.

Effective opposition presenting a lucid Remain campaign has complete control over whether we are in this current position or not
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« Reply #18504 on: June 28, 2019, 10:45:53 AM »

Boris Johnson's Brexit deal claims rubbished by Guy Verhofstadt

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/jun/27/boris-johnson-brexit-deal-claims-rubbished-guy-verhofstadt
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« Reply #18505 on: June 28, 2019, 10:47:00 AM »

Another good thread

"No Deal by automatic operation of law on 31 October is a certainty unless:

- existing Deal (already heavily rejected by MPs)
- renegotiated Deal (no time, EU says no)
- revocation (unlikely)
- extension (not in UK's gift, needs all EU27 to agree)

So not "million to one against""

further posts follow at https://twitter.com/davidallengreen/status/1144243961982271488
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« Reply #18506 on: June 28, 2019, 10:48:14 AM »

"Now is the worst time for 'global Britain'

Global trade integration has stalled since the financial crisis, and is unlikely to pick up steam any time soon. In that context, plans for ‘global Britain’ will do little to offset the costs of Brexit.

‘Global Britain’ and the pursuit of a fully independent trade policy has become a fixation for many Conservative MPs. Any mention of a customs union, which would limit the UK’s ability to negotiate away its tariffs in return for increased access to new markets, triggers a hostile reaction. The Conservative party membership, which polls suggest largely consists of hard-line eurosceptics, is likely to select Boris Johnson to be the UK’s next prime minister. "

https://www.cer.eu/insights/now-worst-time-global-britain
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« Reply #18507 on: June 28, 2019, 10:49:42 AM »

end on a more positive one, from the Spectator editor

"Struck by how many (on both sides of Brexit divide) think that there’s zero hope of a better deal, so pointless even to seek compromise. I argue there is a route to avoiding no-deal, being mapped out by cooler heads in Europe, and that it’s worth exploring"

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2019/06/27/eu-need-friends-world-stage-conditions-ripe-boris-pull-brexit/
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« Reply #18508 on: June 28, 2019, 11:17:36 AM »

Captions for either of these?

Osaka summit today
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« Reply #18509 on: June 28, 2019, 11:33:22 AM »

Good to see Morrissey chiming in with some hot political takes.

Full interview transcript is here:-

https://www.morrisseycentral.com/messagesfrommorrissey/234417-the-interview

He supports For Britain who I know next to nothing about other than they were too racist for Farage. The interview is a whole lot of rambling self absorbed nonsense. I don't know why I read it.

“If you call someone racist in modern Britain you are telling them that you have run out of words. You are shutting the debate down and running off. The word is meaningless now. Everyone ultimately prefers their own race … does this make everyone racist?”
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