blonde poker forum

Apparently frightened Tottenham residents sought refuge in the local benefits office as they knew this would never be attacked....

Naughty.

Multi culturalism failure in its prime...

I see a carpet shop has been burned to the ground in the Tottenham riots.

Apparently there was a turf war between local rug dealers.

Were the rioters from other cultures?

Tensions mount in Tottenham as looters at Argos wait several hours for their numbers to be called.

It's nice to know how badly they want to keep Modric

I guess they really want another crack at the Olympic stadium.

Sandy

Shame they didn't smash up the Stadium.

Hopefully they will next time.

If you want to post racist jokes, do it on Facebook or Twitter - not here.

Which post is racist ?

The one that isn't there any more.

sledge in right wing slur shock

Lol fair enough

Subtle, but unfortunately almost true!

anyone know the breakdown % of white/black/asian/other  or whatever is the pc wording for the population of the tottenham area?

They smashing up the area they live in? wp wp.

Probably not smashing up the area  they live in, things like this attract trouble makers that come from other areas to take part.

lol.......Brixton commuters stepping over coathangers on the way to work.

 24 hour shopping has truly arrived.

yeah they are smashing up the places they shop in..but you didn't expect these people to be intelligent did you ?

If anyone's looking for a cheap laptop, some really good deals on Ebay today.

Fyp

Sandy

it's all very strange out there. went into stratford at about 4 to do some shopping only to find everything except starbucks already shut with thousands of people milling around wondering what to do with themselves. just waiting for it to all kick off now

What's your weapon of choice going to be?  Half bricks, fireworks, or maybe the good-old petrol-bomb?

I've had a good look around the house and I've got a choice of tennis racket, carving knife or the spit attachment from the bbq which can be wielded in a similar way to a poker. probs going with option c

I think word has got out about the new UEFA regulations which means that Tottenham and Arsenal will be forced to merge (North London Stars), hence the rioting in Tottenham and Islington - although I think they are not looking at the "Big" picture

It's OK everyone - Boris has said he's coming back from holiday.

He'll sort these ragamuffins and ne'erdowells out and give them a sound thrashing.

Or teach them how to wreck a restaurant properly, one of the two.

This will only get interesting if they start messing with the middleclass and posh area's.

Get heavy handed with these low life shits!!! No matter who you are, this is doing no good for our country. If you want to fight, join the army, or if you do not like our country go and join the French Foreign legion. Either way, get the f*ck out and stop this mindless vandelism.

Enfield IS a middle class area.

The softest police tactics in the world are not going to do much good against this bunch of would be gangster dregs....

Sorry have not seen Enfield mentioned yet on news. I wonder police will be more proactive on looting in those areas.

FYP

Enfield was last night - do keep up.

Tonight the London Riot tour visits Hackney, Lewisham and, later on, Croydon.

The coverage is doing my head in, sky news every hour seem to interview another youth worker or whatever then he rattles off how little resources the youth get in those area's.  Somehow an excuse for absolute dickheads to burn down peoples houses, loot local shops an destroy any chance of spending government money there in the future. People complaining the police aint stopped the looting, lol you fancy going in to stop it with hundreds of nutters ready to pounce.

Sent the snipers in and cull the vermin imo  >:(

I've stopped watching the news for that reason Acid. Those clowns are doing my head in. I lived in Totenham 1984-87. It was bad then, always has been, prob always will. I was brought up in worse areas that Tottenham & Enfield, with zero resources and we never had any of this rioting/looting shite.

My biggest gripe is Nando's in Enfield was looted, and I wasn't there to snap up a few Extra Hot chickens. FML.

Yep because that worked so well in Northern Ireland in 1972 didn't it?

I think the police tactics are a little on the soft side; saying that you can quite clearly see they're innocent people mixed in with the crowd trying to figure out how to avoid.  If the police go full force, alot of innocents will get tangled up in the mess.  Then public will soon change their tune over the police tactics.  I assume they're trying to filter out the commuters/innocents and try to enclose them; going to be very hard, as these are clearly more difficult than the student protestors.

Who gives a fuck, I have no time for any of this nonsense.

yup - burning down ppls houses ffs, get some troops in.  When the UN says whoa and Gadaffi recognises some chav ambassador as the king we might have done enough.

*Crowds* turn ordinary people into criminals. FACT.

Army wasting their time in Afganistan etc while our capital is held seige by the leftist result...what the?!!?!?

Now kicking off in brum

Been going on for an hour, police estimate the damage already at £32.40

Outside the Trains Don't Run on Time

Gotta love politicians, Theresa Gorman on the news now

"There's no excuse for looting or rioting"

"They are criminals and will face consequences"

None of them go talk to the rioters or community leaders in any kind of serious way and instead send out party political broadcast type messages to the Slenux  party members, what a waste of space they really all are.. er, I guess that aint big news

Getting worse.......even Cameron will be back soon!

They think they will get away with ..........and even if caught, a fine/suspended sentence/community payback.

Sentences need to be alot harsher than a slap on the wrist.

From random twitter user,,

Good to see the pilot on the HD SkyCopter has got his priorities right

(http://s3.amazonaws.com/twitpic/photos/full/367980817.jpg?AWSAccessKeyId=AKIAJF3XCCKACR3QDMOA&Expires=1312833888&Signature=lfJiYfCCXhlCUjnPZAnkknlFksE%3D)

It's pretty lol how out of touch they are.

It really needs someone like Dizzee Rascal to ask people to chill out and stop being so norrrrty.

those area's what?

FML....... this is turning into a remake of The Great Fire of London

In case Plod read Blonde, I'd just like to point out I didn't torch that furniture shop just to make it look I have sick riot prediction tekkers.

Swear down

On the subject of sick riot prediction tekkers - here's Nick Clegg from before the election saying there could be riots if the Tories got elected...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YItK1izQIwo

Just caught up was thinking if u were main organiser or not ..  rotflmfao

I did ring him  ;)

I am half considering sneaking down to Stamford Bridge with a can of petrol and a lighter to see if something good can come out of tonight.

So da kidz can cause all this disgraceful mayhem! god help us if the terrorists get their act together!!!

Trouble brewing in Chapeltown Leeds.

its embarrassing how fucking stupid people in this country are.

Is this a bad area of Leeds?

False alarm it seems.

'Trouble not brewing in Chapeltown' would be news.

Sky news showing rioters going down Clapham High Street looting shops one by one, no Police anywhere.

Amazing scenes

.

Disgusting.

 :)up

Omg woodsey we must have the same thoughts.

I blame Bates

I am finding that the best way to watch this is Sky News with sound down and @joey7barton being constantly refreshed on twitter.  Joey would have this sorted in no time imo.

Joey for PM?

Cant knock this guy from Sky News, must be nuts.


YouTube: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gqj1N9qeWXI

terrible, rioting for a cause i can understand but i have to agree when they say its just pure criminality.

they are burining peoples houses/flats down FFS.

just to be uber nitty for a sec it's not clapham high street :)

sky news>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>bbc news tonight

wowowowowowowow @ how easy it is for a bunch of kidz to create utter chaos

FYP

Know the area well :(

He's insane, even confronts some of them, completely nuts.

my mates facebook, status and i tend to agree

The politically correct brigade has killed this country - you cant criticise anyone and we should all live in harmony. You cant take forceful action because parasites will try and defend some lowlife scumbag and sue you. Now we are at a stage where anarchy takes over because people are too scared/unprepared to do anything about it. Let this be a lesson to all the fencesitting arseholes out there, get the police on the streets smashing peoples kneecaps

+1 fucking million mate  :)up

I think one of the reasons why the police are allowing themselves to be overrun tonight is that they're facing big cuts in their budgets.

The worse things get, the more likely it is those cutbacks will be reversed and funding increased.

Great way to make political gain!

Right wing shocker!  :-X

100% correct imo!

Only a matter of time before some people not lucky enough to get out of their homes before the fire reaches them, the softly softly approach might end kinda quickly then.

Yah, met police called all their members together and clearly organised a massive conspiracy.  Obviously got nowt better to do at the mo than fight budget cuts.

Police closing A1 south of Newcastle to prevent former footballer travelling to London armed with roast chicken and fishing rod

Looting Ladbrokes? There'll be no value in there.

This is one of those times when I have zero problem with the police being very heavy handed.

Even get some army in with guns visible, shots in the air etc, that will make the protesters shit themselves!

FYP

Gimme a break "not enough resources"

Not enough discipline due to Pc madness overtaking our society

I actually wouldn't have a problem with that..........

Water Canons Please - Works on my Cats when they kick off

I keep hearing about water cannons - do we even have water cannons in this country??

no, closest is NI

also woodsey, lol @ protesters, there aren't any

This brave woman knows whats what

http://www.twitvid.com/4JTZH

Just saw this on Facebook:
News from Notts City centre: All quiet, rioters likely to get their heads kicked in by real people.

I wonder how long it is until that actually starts happening?

Water canons at Airports

fire engines?

Time to buy shares in pilkingtons?

Green godesses?

Probs a health and safety problem!

I don't really understand what the police are doing here.  If they are not nicking people because they are focussed on keeping order then that clearly isn't working so why not just nick them all now.  They said on Sky there are 3x as many police on the streets tonight as last night and there were 3x as many on last night as on Saturday which begs the question where exactly they all were on Sat night.....

Yup.

Apparently has in Dalston, large group of Turkish men protecting their shops.

Why do Parents let their childern go out in the middle of summer wearing winter coats with hoods??????????????????????

To do the shopping???

Dalstonpeople Dalstonpeople
RT @jamesjammcmahon Things have calmed down in Dalston due to heroic mobs of Turkish men standing guard down highstreet #londonriots

Sorry, shopping would insinuate things were being payed for.

Ugh, just read they've done something to the Children's Hospital in Brum now.

Its starting to rain - even my Cats want to come in and stop their looting, firestarting etc - calm on the streets?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-leeds-14449656

happens all time in chapletown they wont need an excuse.

FFS  now Ealing, down the road,..,,,..I'm off to board up my windows.

"We're getting our taxes back init"

Great tweet:

 @Meatkatie Turkish and Asian groups have stood up to & chased off rioters. Bloody immigrants. Coming over here defending our boroughs & communities ;-)

Sky News 'Currys robbed, Waterstones untouched.'

shame on ken livingstone on bbc news now trying to score political points

Its all fine people we our getting updates from Nick.



http://twitter.com/#!/nickgriffinmep


bet he is happy the *****.

Cultured rioters innit.

Kindle > paperback

(http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2011/08/08/article-2023554-0D58092100000578-48_964x554.jpg)


Daily mail having fun, women has currys jacket on :P

http://www.facebook.com/groups/240777719290285/

+1 Cringeworthy

London is a write-off

Good point.

Where abouts in Ealing are they, links? FFS indeed

By Ealing Broadway station.

Charlton and west ham games called off tomorrow. Presumably more to follow, can't see palace playing, croydon police may have better things to do

http://www.ealingtoday.co.uk/

cracking journalism

YouTube: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sXcI-NL3Tro

It's now spread to Birmingham.  Poker players at the Broadway have barricaded themselves in and the cinema next door has been trashed.  This is VERY bad.

 Terrible PR.......but odds on the army patrolling some of the streets within 48 hours?

never.gonna.happen

England game off as well

at last some good has come of all this

Army will be brought in tomorrow after Cobra meeting. No doubt about it.

I was enjoying all the controversy but now I'm dead against the riots.

I had a big bet on Charlton tomorrow to beat Reading at a very good early price and now its been fkin called off.

They are messing with my livelihood.


And this is coming from someone who looted a lorry at Leeds Fest 2003 and stole 2 24 crates of beer.

I'm not one for the EDL-inspired rants which abound tonight but you have to LOL at the front page of tomorrow's Daily Mirror. I'm pretty sure nearly all the rioters in London tonight didn't look like these two guys...

(http://s3.amazonaws.com/twitpic/photos/large/368062942.jpg?AWSAccessKeyId=AKIAJF3XCCKACR3QDMOA&Expires=1312844555&Signature=3UvwLy0%2FkKoiM93jmaxOkvyeDcs%3D)

Spot the man in the wrong place at the wrong time

(http://s3.amazonaws.com/twitpic/photos/full/368025733.jpg?AWSAccessKeyId=AKIAJF3XCCKACR3QDMOA&Expires=1312844824&Signature=Bp5Uy4diHqAEwPZB5zNJmaSxw1U%3D)

absolutely disgusting from the mirror

lol, wtfs Ben from last years Big Brother doing on the right!?

Breaking into houses in Ealing.

Cricket bat at the ready.

Some old lady woke up to find a stranger in her bedroom, called the cops, they didn't show, he and his mates left the house after stealing a load of her stuff.
*Make my day law ftw.

They've done Ealing...now moved down the Uxbridge road to West Ealing. Carnage everywhere.

Quite unbelievable and frightening. Police totally out numbered.

We live just a few doors off the Camden high street at Chalk Farm end. About 100 rioters charged past our road with baseball bats and looted, smashed, etc shops in the area. I literally heard a roar from my living room as if it were a charge in a war film. Very surreal.

Said for a long time this country is finished.... Makes me want to leave forever.... Just surrounded by the filth of humanity

seen it all before it the 80s we will have a few more days of it then someone will release there is drink to be drunk or games to be played and the numbers will drop people will get arrested and slapped on the wrists politians will make noises nothing will be done and in another 20+ years it will all happen again

think it happened in paris and major french towns a few years back but all is forgotten now

embarassing, country's gone to pot.

http://twitter.com/#!/hantspolice


there is a email/tweet/text going around asking people to riot on friday in southampton

Yikes! The main Sony warehouse in Enfield went up...right next to my offices..just gone and got my main data server out of the office... Shows u want mindless wank these people are... The Sony warehouse bang next door to a hotel...nice..let's just burn 200 innocent people to death... Die scum !

In West Bromwich, the Shaftesbury Casino was robbed and smashed up by 18 thugs with baseball bats. Absolutely nothing reported on news??
In Birmingham Broadway Casino is closed after a large amount of twats tried smashing up the smoking area and tried to gain access but were held back by the players. ( later reports suggest that Broadway Plaza Car Park is on fire under the casino - not confirmed)
Gala and Circus are believed to have had problems too.

Where's the rain when you need it?

I am truly horrified by this...........

why the fuck the army haven't been brought in to restore order ill never know.

 wtf i mean let's not namby pamby around anymore get the fukka sorted... or are they gonna let this spread all around the UK first.

This country is a joke ...someone will protect there business or home and end up getting 15 years for manslaughter....

IMHO A simple clear message via twitter/facebook/blackberry etc......needs to go out today that anyone found looting/criminal damage/arson, will receive a minimum X years in jail/youth custody.
London has to be flooded tonight with Police draughted in from the UK.

We may have seen the worst of it now and it may just be a once in a lifetime bit of opportunism from these scum, but if they continue to get lary It really will be tough to deal with. So I'm reserving comment further until I see what happens in the next 2 days. As for bringing the army in, it only really got worthy of using them by say 8pm last night, would have been tough to mobilise that quickly no? I'm no expert I could be way off. Also could have it been anticipated that this mayham would spread so quickly and be so destructive?

And what was it with the arson? Loot a place, sure, ure a thief, but burning it aswell, or just burning things for fun is just sick as you can't really put any logic to that.

in theory yes but then what happens in other city's where there is no police cos they all in London?

there are battalions in the country(or used to be)..on standby 24 hours notice...
so after first night i would of mobilised them immediately ...however this country would rather send them elsewhere to fight other peoples battles and leave our problems to sort themselves out...they obviously don't want public to see a soldier on the streets protecting there own country do they?

Yeah, that's not really the way it works mate.

You can't mobilise the army immediately/within a couple of hours and deal with a situation like this effectively.

Riot police are BY FAR the better trained for this sort of job. I don't know if you've ever stood across a fully geared up riot officer who has been told to "go out and get this shit under control" but they are scary.
The police have to be very careful not to escalate the situation even further though by going in too heavy handed. Over the past 2 nights any disproportional response would have been met with more riots, you can be sure of that.

(Remember, they are still in a bit of a pickle over that newspaper seller who was pushed to the ground and died)
Public opinion is changing very rapidly now though and the violence and looting is escalating to other cities and other areas in London so I would expect a much more forceful response tonight if the riots continue (and there is no reason to believe they won't)

I would be surprised however if in the next few nights there won't be some military on the streets in certain areas unless a crack-down starts to work tonight and tomorrow night.

Really?

And who do you think runs most of the riot training for the police?? We used to run the riot training days for the Police up at redford Barracks.

The big problem we have is that in truth, very little ongoing riot training has been done for quite a while due to purse strings having to be tightened. What you are seeing is a massive result of this. In effect you have thousands of untrained officers in a riot situation. Hence the reason they look like they are doing very little.

Bringing in the Army will certainly give you more numbers on the ground but won't afford you much more in the way of "riot trained" personnel.

Since the major withdrawal from NI there has been next to no riot training within the Army. They are too busy finishing one set of training to go to Afghan and the likes - doing there tour and then back onto the next set of training for their next deployment.

Some people really have no idea just how short we are both in Policing and military.

And yeah, politicians, keep praising the great efforts by our police forces while pinching their livelihoods from their back pockets with your cuts and pension reforms.........vwp.

Geo

yes i suppose i realise that deep down just want to see it sorted and not let/allowed to spread all over the country

could not agree more geo...

i think my point.. although sometimes find it hard to put into words is THE COUNTRY IS FUCKED do something about it.

Completely agree mate.

Hope they come up with some sort of plan today....and that the England match will go ahead. The one freebie I get FFS and the game might be binned!

Also had Holland to win @ 2-1 and won't be happy if it gets binned now

wtf is going on. country has gone barmy.

http://maps.google.co.uk/maps/ms?msid=207192798388318292131.0004aa01af6748773e8f7&msa=0&ie=UTF8&ll=51.536086%2C-0.056305&spn=0.39294%2C0.630341&z=10&source=embed

lol at the Nottingham updates on that link, Can't spell the area where there was trouble and a dozen cars vandalised becomes 40 cars set alight.

the game is off...FML in a massive way

It is time to use force. Desperate times and all that. Was listening to 5 live were a street worker was saying "You have to engage with this people who are on the edge of society.... we should be out on the streets talking to them while they burn buildings..." Couldn't believe my ears.

Think it's a big test of Cameron too- let's see what he's made of

Pack them all off to parts of Africa so they can see what REAL poverty and hardship is really like.

Fucking wankers the lot of them

Makes me wish for Thatcher.


Now to sit back and wait for Rod :)

Other countries would'nt stand for this.  The law is too fkin soft.  Get in there with rubber bullets and go in hard.  These idiots need a good hiding and as for the parents........

Then again, they could just be warming up for the new football season which starts on Saturday

 ;hide;

Maybe they think they are off to play poker.

Seriously though, if these guys are getting hit by police then so what.....they shouldn't be there.  Go home to your families and abide by the law like the rest of have to.

The police really need to make a stand now and get stuck in to 'em.

 ;applause;

from 2p2

I live in Liverpool and had been blazing and watching the riots progress through the night on BBC and Sky with a couple of friends.

Drove out to drop one of my friends home, and on the way back was flagged down by a guy in the middle of the road in a high vis jacket. At first we were slightly sceptical but then when we saw the cuts to his face were much more understanding.

Got him into my car and he said what happened. The man was a truck driver in his lates 30's early 40's. Had pulled up on the side of the road to sleep and his truck was broken into by 4 lads. Hammers used to smash in the windows. Dragged him out the truck and beat him, kicked him in the eye leaving him with a very bloody and swollen eye.

We called the busys and tried to follow the truck. But by this stage it had gotten away and there were many routes it could have taken. The police arrived and sorted it from there. The truck was found 2 miles away dumped in the middle of a very poor area, high in crime.

Me and my friend were just in pure shock. That some people must actually rationalise doing things like this and be able to live with themselves. A disgusting and totally needless act.

The fact that there are even riots in Liverpool is ridiculous. Just a bunch of complete morons from a weaker gene pool, seeing whats happening in London and for some reason thinking they must follow suit.

Complete bullheads the lot of them. All completely worthless.

Some incredible photography

http://www.boston.com/bigpicture/2011/08/london_riots.html

02:20  http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-14456061
We police by consent, we won't be bringing the army in. Another night of this and she'll be out of a job imo.

If the Army were to be used, I'd like to see something in the order of:

Saturate the area and herd them all into one area - contain/kettle, call it what you like.

Once contained, ship into a fleet of trucks and taken to some disused Army camp or similar, then processed over a few days.

Mugshots/Fingerprints/DNA/Personal details taken. When run through the various datbases at a later time would probably identify culprits for various crimes not even linked to the current situation.

Using any photographic/CCTV evidence where possible to identify any currently held, charge and transport to prison to be remanded before appearing at court. Most importantly, ensure the sentencing reflects that we will no longer tolerate this sort of crap.

Will it happen, probably not because immediate costs would be huge. Guaranteed the costs for going about it without the above process will be just as large, if not more.

Yes, there maybe some unfortunates amongst them, however for a few days hardship gotta be worth the sacrifice, after all think of the years of hardship that has been inflicted on so many innocents so far due to loss of businesses/homes due to these morons.

Geo

http://www.facebook.com/video/video.php?v=10150333636850851&comments

fucking scum

What does "We police by consent" mean? Just involving community leaders? Do they think that's going to work?

Fairly sure that's illegal unless a state of emergency has been called off.

Watching that astounded me, I'm just speechless. The BBC Original for non fb peeps is

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-14456065

Have the police got any clue at all about the kind of people they are dealing with here?  Calling for parents to call their children and warning that if they get arrested they may get a criminal record and that may affect their ability to get a job in the future.  Kids that listen to their parents and are worried about their future careers don't riot and loot FFS.

Theresa May = utterly clueless, always has been, always will be.

It's slightly confusing terminology, but they use it a lot at times like this. What they're saying is that when you don't have what happened last night, it's not because people fear immediate action by the police and therefore don't do it; it's because they value the law and order which the police are there to protect.
Therefore you just don't have that many police around to protect from that sort of thing (3000 riot-trained police in London, lol).

holy crap.


What do you reckon, 6 months probation for those scoundrels?

Ah yes, that'll work.

BTW, funny how no paper has reported that most, if not all, these kids are English.

ITV should have emergency episodes of X-Factor to broadcast in times of crisis to entice the yoot back indoors.

I blame Cheryl Lloyd...cus they're all swaggering like Jagger.

It is massively reassuring to hear our PM at this time.  Very happy he came back off his holidays to deliver that message.

They are in London, WTF were you expecting? Japanese?  ::)

Muslims or Gypsies...they seem to be causing all the trouble if recent reports are anything to go by

They might well be but they are still English no?  :dontask:

And as we live in England/UK why would they ever need to specify that?

Back in 81, Ghost Town by The Specials was an apposite song to have at Number 1 as British cities burned.

Swagger Jagger doesn't really cut it, does it?

Might start a Facebook campaign to get The Clash to number 1 next week.

Could be Dutch Kids sent over to cause mayhem in order to get the Football cancelled (afraid of losing)  ;)

It remains the best long-term option. You send the army in [ ] suddenly everything will calm down.

Long term you're obviously right. Short term talking to people and saying "But what about our values?" obviously doesn't work.

I'm just glad that it looks like there were no Gypsies involved in last night's rioting, otherwise this place would really have kicked off.

Yeah ok, it's a dumb time for her to talk of 'policing by consent', conflating various ideas.
We don't normally go around with heavy-handed extremely visible police, because 'policing by consent' works.
We hit a bunch of dangerous riots > there may be an argument for not fighting it with the most heavy-handed, visible force (including the army), not because we prefer 'policing by consent here' but because inflammation and visible confrontation will lead to an escalation of rioting.
Big part of the problem is technology, apparently, just so easy for the loons to get on their Blackberries and pass on info about next targets. Just round up the Blackberry users imo.

Just set the disappointed dutch fans on them.

Time to crack some skulls tonight imo. Warn them in advance so they know what's coming.........

I'd still fly to London if they said "All Dutch people can beat the crap and kick the shit out of all the rioters"...obv wouldn't want them to fight back or anything but am pretty peeved at the match not going ahead.

Aren't all Blackberry messages routed through the government anyway, should be simple enough to use the info to get there first.

+1

I'm sure it goes on at the higher Echelons ;)

RIM, the makers of Blackberry have stated that they will assist the police.

http://catchalooter.tumblr.com/

Social media is a double edged sword!

I agree with this, there comes a time where things have gone far too far and if there's nothing the Police can do about it then there's nothing for the idiots to be afraid of.

Its all this namby pamby PC bullshit that has created all the health and safety rules so that make the police so cautious. They need free rein to go and do what they need to do, and the trouble makers need to be told there will be no comeback if they get hurt as they were warned in advance.

Go get 'em lads!

(http://i444.photobucket.com/albums/qq167/Andr4w/Police-stop-G20-protester-001.jpg)

I have changed my mind after readin this
Iran calling for the UK police to show restraint....oh boy.

But I wonder how many of these actually speak understandable English?

They all speak OMGI


Edit; BTW There are some on blonde as well who don't speak any English. Have you read some of the Shrewdies' posts on this forum?

lol quite. FB Facial recognition FTW! http://www.techeye.net/security/researchers-work-out-social-security-from-facebook-face-id

Ubernit, anything he likes and he goes for the Value range
(http://28.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lpnmybPA4T1r1pwklo1_400.jpg)

EDL out in force tonight, I can smell huge mayhem.

Wouldn't surprise me if they are some of the robbers in the places where its been whites doing it  :D

That's a great find.

Apparently it's all CCTV's fault now:
http://www.bigbrotherwatch.org.uk/home/2011/08/the-surveillance-state-has-failed.html

Yeah and the blame being pointed at the police is LOL. All the hate should be focused on the crims  >:(

I think that make a fair point though, a few thousand extra police officers on the streets would have helped and the CCTV could do nothing.

Unfortunatley a clip from CCTV does more to convince judges than the word of a policeman these days

Geo

According to a snippet on the BBC, in the last year the Met have lost 900 police and currently have a total force of about 32,000 - about the same level as New York.

Obviously there is likely to be a difference with which type of police that 32,000 is comprised of - but it doesn't suggest that outright numbers are a problem.

Is that Police Officers, as in can patrol the streets or the amount of staff employed by the met which includes admin staff etc.

Geo

Last year's figures say 33,200 proper coppers, 4200 Special constables and 4500 community support officers, along with 14000 admin staff.

I don't think officers usually refer to office staff - but I don't know, it was only a brief snippet of information.

EDIT: Andrew's post seems to cover it

NY

Police Officers    34,500 (2010)
Auxiliary Police Officers

School Safety Agents    4,503 (2009)


5,147 (2009)


MET

Overviewed by    Independent Police Complaints Commission/Her Majesty's Inspectorate of Constabulary
Headquarters    New Scotland Yard
Police Constables    36,246[6] (of which 2,988 are special constables)[6]
Police Community Support Officers    4,521[

Best hashtag so far describing the people helping to clean up - #riotwombles

How many police were around in the early 80's and how much of a reliance was on CCTV in the early 80's? Not sure on the figures but I imagine there were more police and less cameras yet still we had riots.

Got friends and family in both Croydon and Streatham, some of them have told me they are 'arming up' in case the thieves literally come to their doorsteps. If they are not stopped soon do we really think they will stop once all the shops have been done in!?

That footage of the injured kid being robbed is Abso horrific, not seen such a display of a person lacking in human compassion In a while. If I wasn't already Ill it would literally turn my stomach.

Also can we change the title to UK Riots or something? Tottenham riots is tilting and doesn't do the situation justice imo

Fantastic.

Russian TV channel Rossiya 24 says parts of London resembled a "battlefield". Citing Twitter, the Rossiya 24 correspondent claims animals had been released from London Zoo and lions and tigers could now be heard roaring on the streets. This is wearily contradicted by the Zoo's press officer. "It's been very quiet," she tells us.

Obv it's quiet, there are no animals in the zoo anymore!

About 27,000 in 1984 according to Hansard (via Wikipedia)

So some thousands less than we have now without the benefit of CCTV

the guy who was shot in croydon has now died

halfords on the old kent road being attacked as I type, it's lunchtime ffs, take a break

Anyone up for some vigilante work tonight? Might be a good rush and my bro has a bunch of guns we can borrow :D

lol, apparently Ghadaffi has sent a message of support to the rioters?

Not sure if anyone has posted this yet.  Not sure you can getting any more chav than this.

(http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lpnocx3dtO1r1pwklo1_500.png)

YouTube: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IkWtMNBgf48

Title says it all: FAIL!

Camden seemed to be a bit more prepared, although it may have just been an educated guess, but there were a few police here first, and all the shops closed early.

This is now officially Scotland Yard's biggest investigation with 500 detectives on the case. Bigger than 7/7. 11yr old kid arrested yesterday. Insane.

Apparently BBM instant msgs are untraceable and thats how the majority were sent

Hopefully they can round up a load of scrotes involved in the riots and probably other stuff.  Then if there's any justice, they'll be locked up for a good while.

Untraceable by who?

http://threatpost.com/en_us/blogs/blackberry-spyware-can-intercept-texts-email-track-users-location-020710

Just to highlight the many security flaws in Blackberries. Would be stunned in messaging would be untraceable (I would be flabbergasted beyond belief)

Pretty sure that BBMs are traceable. All BBMs go through RIMs servers.

Sky news Said untraceable at all. Didn't say by who.

Only applies to BBM instant messenger the rest as we all know is easily interceptable

Amazing couple of interviews on sky news. Some mug rapper trying to give a reason behind the looting just got owned by the reporter. Then a guy called Big Jim tried saying they were all Black (gulp). then a former police chief being interviewed by a woman reporter said "the police are trying their very BREAST" Classic. Tv gold.

Sky today pretty much proving the point that the best people to interview are probably not the ones that want to be interviewed.

That last chick interviewed. Basically " well it's the summer holidays and they have 6 weeks without anything to do, the government should provide more" pffffft. Good reason... Play footy in the day and drink White lightning in the park like when I was a kid FFS..

This interview has depressed me beyond belief.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-14458424 (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-14458424)

they should speak to their colleagues at News International....I'm sure they could give them some tips

Sigh, that actually has really depressed me too. Reminded me of this

YouTube: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kjuNuqIev8M

That just goes strengthen my belief that certain people should be prevented from breeding. Wonder if you can force someone to have their womb removed.

On 5 Live right now Hulk Hogan is giving tips on how he'd sort all this out - seems to mostly involve drop-kicking people.

'I would body slam these people like I did Andre the Giant'

most south london shopping areas have closed for the day. bexleyheath, greenwich, lee, eltham, croydon, woolwich, it's like a wednesday 20 years ago

Read on facebook that they've been told to vacate the Jewellery Quarter in Brum by 2pm too.

'insider' type clip of a looting. There is no hope.

YouTube: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kfBxRfqm7ls

Lots of media are blaming social media for all these riots, but thanks to idiots like these who actually voluntarily film themselves stealing, its helping catch all of them.

Has the daily mail blamed single mothers yet btw?

No but the Express has said it wouldn't have happened if Diana was still alive.

is this actually true??? Superb if it is.

Mate in Manchester said its kicking off there as well now.

Joke that Parliament are not meeting about this until Thursday.

I thought it seemed a little shortsighted for Manchester and Lancs constabularies to send all their public disorder trained police to London to help.  could be ugly there is it kicks off.

Something terribly wrong with the kids of today when they think it's not only ok to riot and steal/loot from shops but that it's actually funny to do so too.  There's tonnes of kids turning up at that Game store, unbelievable.

TBF, almost all of parliament is away on holiday so coming back within 48 hours is not bad.

You could argue that parliament should not have to be re-called to do something about this. All party leaders are back in the UK, the PM is here..let's see some action. What is there to vote on?

That's the mentality of Kidz today

YouTube: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eCwoa30iD1s

The only meaningful they can vote on is emergency legislation - that's not necessarily a good thing.

It's more likely that it will be supportive debates and vaguely meaningless statements come from it.

TBF i think he should have come back the first day it happened, instead of grimming waitresses on his hols.

I agree that they shouldn't have to be re-called. I think either the PM himself should be able to just give the go ahead be it over the phone from hols or even give the Police Commissioner himself the power to call in the Army when the police force clearly needs help.

It's politics, he doesn't want to make a decision and then have Labour putting photos of troops on the streets on their election leaflets for the next 10 years.

Also saw this video from Brum:

YouTube: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8zRUojIKrn0

I do wonder about the people they found to interview though...

Recalling Parliament is simply so that MPs can have their bit where they appear on TV in the HoC and look all serious and graven-faced while saying how terrible all this is and that things should be done.

The people being interviewed in this are an abso joke. Blatantly either all in the same politics or film class at Uni. Clearly they don't have a job to go to. Laughable how he is implying police are using unnecessary force there.

She is in touch with reality and has more clue than most politicians


YouTube: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G18EmYGGpYI

lets not forget there is always a  catalyst to these people rioting and that always starts with police brutality. same today as the 80's and the Rodney King riots in the states

http://www.thedrum.co.uk/news/2011/08/09/24636-strathclyde-police-arrests-16-year-old-over-glasgow-facebook-riot-page/

Sigh.

Saw one for Wigan as well.  I can imagine there are loads of these.  Idiots.

+1, they're almost exactly the same situation. Except in one the police used excessive force, continually battering a guy (albeit a guy who was resisting arrest somewhat). And in the other a guy was in a car shooting at police and got dead when fire was returned. Some scummy met cop took a bullet in his radio instead of in the heart like a real man.

(http://i463.photobucket.com/albums/qq354/slimfandango/imagesqtbnANd9GcRhpQKiA2JPuagRyuL-N.jpg)

Wasn't it a police bullet he took in his radio though? Or has that changed again now?

think that's abso bollocks mate. Probably did start with the shooting in Tottenham, but the rest are just copycats with no justified reason at all. There is a term being banded around at the minute called 'Recreational Looting' and i think that explains it. They are just doing it simply because they want to.

Jason, these riots have absolutely zero to do with that guy getting shot, or police brutality.

They're about a generation of teenagers who have no future who just had the most exciting night of their drab, dull lives.

yeah this - it may have started with a bit of police brutality (a drug dealer with a gun getting shot)

But if it was just that then it would have only been the first nights troubles.

Did a search on Twitter for Hammersmith to see what was being said about potential trouble. Quite a few tweets saying things like 'OMG - all kicking off, shops all shut, looting started', then plenty of people saying 'WTF - I'm there and nothing is happening'.

Plenty of drama queens about.

A thing that puzzles me is when people outside in the street and a riot starts, the first thing they feel the need to do is go on twitter to say "omg, riots".  This would be the last thing on my mind I expect.

just received a notification from police that they gna be attacking outside my house 2night
[17:15:54] ZeMammoth: gna be an interesting night
[17:16:59] twinn: they have too much work with notification so they can protect your house?
[17:18:25] ZeMammoth: no
[17:18:36] ZeMammoth: there are gna be like 2k chavs around here
[17:18:40] ZeMammoth: and like 20 police officers
[17:19:06] ZeMammoth: this is not gna be good

Yep was a police bullet.  Seems he didn't fire at all.  Obviously that doesn't mean any of this is justified and to be honest I think linking the rioting to this incident is pretty counter productive at this point.

He did apparently have a gun though.

These guys must have been really annoyed that all the laptops had gone by the time they'd got there.

(http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lpnrz0jiJa1r1qajlo1_500.jpg)

So long as it was somewhere with no access to journalists, CCTV, mobile phones (cameras) & sandal wearing liberals etc... they could be 'processed' properly!  ;nemesis;

Just drove through St Ann's in Nottingham, Saw two shops that obv had their doors kicked in yesterday. There was also a fairly menacing looking group of about 20 guys just loitering around a couple of hundred yards up from the health centre.

Oops I came across a bit wrong for a change. These kids don't just wake up and go "let's go fecking mental".  They don't need much of an excuse to go rampaging through the street and the police continually provide them with a reason. The police and politicians are completely out of touch with the younger generation. It's not just the poorly educated ones either. The uni riots started out as a peaceful protest and I thought that all kicked off with the police killing an innocent by stander. I agree with the woman in the video as she makes more sense than anyone. Protest for a reason that's worth fighting for not because you want some trainers

Business as usual then.

Sounds pretty standard.  I bet the yobs in the Meadows will want to show that they can outdo those from St Ann's.

Also, Forest v County match tonight.  Not sure that's the best idea in the world.

some rioting in salford, kids with bats heading for the shops, choppers etc.

manc police as a rule don't take no shit, we'll see.

what if they're really nice trainers?

Yeah but problem is that GMP has shipped half of its finest to london to help there.

Riots in West Brom/Birmingham area currently. Cars were set alight just a few minutes ago.

Dunno about that, I drive through there most days and I've never seen a big gang like that hanging around.

Manchester Police have their own twitter @gmpolice, people were tweeting them earlier today saying it is kicking off. They replied

Reports of 'stand off' between gangs and police in Salford exaggerated. 20 or so youths dispersed by police - one brick thrown, no injuries

18 minutes ago
»

No this is another rumour - all quiet in city centre at present, no evacuations

29 minutes ago

My mate is in Wythenshaw and he assures me it has already kicked off there.

So i hate to think what 'a small portion' by their definition is...

The officers being sent to London represent only a small portion of those within GMP
5 hours ago

Police knocked at the door to advise we put the shutters down but i don't have any. So far really quiet but it's apparently kicking off in the eastern district of Northampton and they are expecting them to come into town this way.

Milton Keynes Debenhams was also apparently looted this afternoon.

I say we wait until tomorrow then go and burgle the looters while they are sleeping - easy haul imo.

So far very very quiet, reports of gangs in Wellingborough refuted by the police, they are saying that it's all being escalated by facebook and absolutely nothing happening locally at all.

I actually want my garage to come down so sort of hoping someone sets light to it. ;-)

If Swagger Fucking Jagger can get to number 1 there is no reason why this cant:

YouTube: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xbUvEg2XZfI

vigilantes ftw! (sp)

pretty much constant noise of police sirens outside here last 15 minutes or so.  more reassuring than the shouting and hollering of groups of vandals I suppose.

Just come through Salford. No issues that I could see, but diverting all buses away from their normal routes to main roads only.

I can confirm my road, my local park, and the co-op round the corner are all safe and secure in Sheffield.

Just doing my bit, don't thank me just pay it forward.

Why are you making excuses for them?  Im not a fan of the police but Id be pretty happy if they went in all guns blazing and smashing some heads.  Doubt they will loot much again.

Shoot the rioting fucking scum.

http://photoshoplooter.tumblr.com/

 Are webuyanycar.com going to keep to their word?

(http://s1.b3ta.com/host/creative/71287/1312847114/MSE.jpg)

Sandy

can hear it going on from my back door, seeing a steady stream of little scroats going down our road on the way to town.

my friends in town say there are hundreds of them.

so tempted to go and have a look.

Reports of the riots in Northampton may have been widely exaggerated - lol.  http://lockerz.com/s/128014709

It's all got too provincial and boring.

bbc news

A group of around 100 young man have gathered on Church Street in Enfield, and say they will defend the streets of the north London suburb from rioters. The area is peaceful at the moment.

This is the answer. Locals outnumber the yobs, and more should follow the lead of the Turkish and Asian shop owners who assembled to protect their businesses yesterday and today.

That will be fine until someone gets killed.

Yeah, always one who ruins it for everyone else.

Unless it is one of the rioters.  ;)

Millwall fans chanting "You'll never take our high street" http://yfrog.com/5zbwwz

Never thought I'd feel proud about what Millwall fans were doing. I bet the yobs will avoid those streets tonight.

The looting is getting pretty redic now tbh... :)

(http://a3.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc3/29301_442976909814_310716489814_5773694_3162803_n.jpg)

This, imo, doesnt look or feel anything like as scary or transformational as the 1980s riots. A lot of kids nicking but the violence, malevolence, and underlying hate isn't there. The arson attacks are very scary though.

Unbelievable that the police don't get any direction or leadership that gives them a mandate to actually stop stuff happening - rather than pore over pictures and arrest people when the situation calms down

There were lots of Bradford fans chanting in Leeds centre earlier. Unfortunately it was "We all hate Leeds scum" so I doubt they were intending to protect the streets lol

in a few parts of south london charlton and millwall have got together to defend high streets that were smashed up last night. it's all a bit surreal

This is what the police lack - heart, comitment and a love for a proper scrap

disagree. I think a lot of them are up for a  scrap but the advantage that the footy fans have got is they're not scared of losing their job if they get stuck in

lol @ people looting Poundland? WTF?

(http://www.raisetheriver.com/discuss/download/file.php?id=1480)

Does make a change though, doesn't it? As gatso said it's a bit surreal to see Charlton and Millwall fans coming together like this, and it's sort of heart-warming to hear stuff like this with all that's been happening.

It's like when Tom and Jerry get together to defeat Spike the dog.

Ridic statement.  Sure is easy for Police to have a proper scrap nowadays.

Where's Thatcher when you need her?

This is the ultimate example of how PC has fucked up this country.

People aren't allowed to smack their kids, teachers that have to take abuse from kids and can't do any thing about it, why is anybody surprised at all this happening with the lack of respect these people have for others and their property?

And then as you say the police aren't allowed to get stuck in because of all the health and safety rules that have been brought about by PC creeping in everywhere, its all gone too fucking far now, the tide needs to turn. The people who bleat on about PC all the time should hang their heads in shame.

AGree really, just been watching too much Tony G recently. Per my earlier post its really about leadership, direction and mandate. However, there might be a few too many fat and short police these days, as well as a shortage of sociopaths, to be as effective as they once were

yea heard this in eltham?

Fuck me, just seen my local shop get looted  :)

http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=442976909814&set=a.313868994814.194924.310716489814&type=1&theater

Just heard a Police station in Notts (Canning Circus) has been firebombed. I used to live 30 secs walk from there :|

hahahahahaha worst game selection ever

I heard that too. I guess they meant petrol bombed though?

Yeah, started in eltham

Whoa, beat me to it  :D

Just heard place are investigating shots being fired in Birmingham :|

edit: Sky reporting shots fired at Police.

Signs not wrong though, pretty incred value.

No looting/rioting in Brighton although i did hear last night someone got nicked on the beach for smoking a joint, shocking times i barely feel safe in my apartment.

Absolute rofl at the student twits in this video having sympathy with the rioters and assuming some kind of political motivation to people who can't even spell policits. They were even kind enough to block out the faces of the people being arrested by police from the looted store. It is both insanely tilting, but also hilarious, how the one clown tries to help them at about 8:05 by shouting pointless legal advice at them, "don't say anything until you get a solicitor." Definitely the most tilting moment of the riots so far for me

Yeah, this is the most depressing thing I've seen about the riots.

 Whenever the committee sits down to pick apart the reasons a young generation managed to do this, they should be using this as the opening scene. It's not the minority of hardened criminals, but the mass of young people who don't give a damn, have no respect for the fellow person, and are ignorant beyond belief. It's absolutely nothing to do with politics for them, anything they drivel about it is just meaningless cliches that they have been fed.

Sorry, was just being facetious.

Looks like quite a bit kicked off in Nottingham overnight: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-nottinghamshire-14469857

Looks like it's kicked-off slightly different in Nottingham,with gangs committed to carrying out acts of vandalism, compared to the looting and vandalism in other cities, but that might just be how it's being reported.

 http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-birmingham-14471405

Unfortunately, it sounds like that's what has happened.

Com if intentional, or if not,  rotflmfao

Fuck me I'm only a few hundred metres from Clarendon college. I nipped out to the shop last night about 9pm and there were loads of randoms on the street on Mansfield road. During the week there aren't that many people normally wandering around at that time, but it was busier than a saturday night.

YouTube: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jGAOCVwLrXo

As with many things in life there need to be a sensible balance of things, not extremes in either direction  :)

Political correctness partially to be blame for the riots? lol wtf.

This is actually what I think you are getting at: http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/no-shame-no-limits-has-the-behaviour-of-the-mob-destroyed-the-idea-of-british-civility-for-ever-2334863.html

Well more that it has influenced the fact that the police have been so soft tbh. But I think a lot of kids probably push the boundaries more today as a result of the softness in society that PC generates.

Watch the Stewart Lee thing again. You're like his gran, confusing H&S rules with PC.

No, because one directly influences the other.

intentional ovbiously

Absolutely

PC has nothing to do with softness, it's about being respectful of other people and it has it's problems, it can be kind of clumsy. But given the fact that it's helped get rid of a lot of racism, sexism and homophobia in the last 20 years, you can hardly blame it for the riots.

Also, you didn't see the police acting so soft when the students were protesting did you? They horse and baton charged at them, so your point is invalid. They are simply dealing with numbers vastly beyond their control, it's nothing to do with softness which in turn has nothing to do with political correctness.

Disagree, but cba arguing as there is simply no point, we aren't going to change each others views. As for the rest its all about balance and my line of unacceptability is obviously further along than yours, and once again I ain't arguing for the same reason as above.

I think the police done pretty well all being considered. I would like to see the fukers sniped but hey ho.

lol @ the dailymail

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-2024348/LONDON-RIOTS-2011-Metropolitan-Polices-Paul-Stephenson-crippled-liberalism.html

Political lust for media blood 'left the Met Police rudderless and crippled by liberalism' is the title of the link.

Erm, wasn't it the Daily Mail that was hammering the NOTW thing a few weeks ago?

Dunno why your lol'ing, a good chunk of the country agree with him. With respect, just because its your viewpoint don't automatically assume your right  :)

They're guilty too and would rather the attention went elsewhere before it comes out.

I wish they would stop saying that these kids have no opportunities at all.

Many (not all) of them do have opportunities; they just choose not to take them. However, they weren't born lazy or criminal. The main reason they choose not to take their opportunties is not political or economic, but becuase of the soical climate they are in. For the young kids, the best thing they could do to impresss their peers is to come back to school with a good story of the riot. The worst thing they could possibly do is to work hard, and try to give themselves a chance in life. It would lead to social ostrasication at best, horrible bullying at worst.The music they listen to never encourages a gangster lifestyle, but it implicitly galmourises it. There is a distinct lack of the few figures they would look up to publically criticising the riots, something that could actually make some difference.

Very true. I had fukall growing up (in little London Leeds lol, people in Leeds will know this area well), late 70's early 80s was much more depressing then and certainly nowt to do, no funding into local yooooth projects we just did our own thing. In Leeds there are certainly more deprived areas than chapletown and Harehills yet there is never any of this bullshit trouble. I am sorry to say its defo certain racial makeups that seem to always use X Y Z excuse to kickoff.

It amazes me that Stu is a pro poker player when I see posts as intelligent and conscientiousness as this.

FYI I don't completely buy the lack of opportunity argument at all. We currently live in the greatest time ever to live, the stuff you can do on a mobile phone or laptop now is awe inspiring. Kids these days have shit loads more prospects and opportunities than every generation before them.

I'm lol'ing, very loudly, because the Daily mail are very much partly responsible due to their Political lust for media blood and are now bitching and moaning about it.

Disagree, baby boomers had the best of it.

The poundland picture is just brilliant. Its the gastronomic equiavlent of going to El Bulli and filling up on bread

Yes it is quite likely that this will be the first generation that is poorer than their parents but that is pretty much irrelevant in most of these cases because they aren't the first generation in their families to feel this sense of hopelessness and it is this underclass that we have created that are the main participants and they have no role models like Stu said.  Many of them have little to no contact with their fathers and, as a result of that, they don't get much guidance from their mothers because they are massively stretched trying to support their families.  Of course the fact that the politicians don't address these problems is largely down to the political correctness that Woodsey refers to and whilst absent fathers isn't a uniquely black problem it certainly affects that community disproportionately and there are some truly wonderful services that are seeking to help with that that have been savagely cut by the present government.  Of course the lack of role models, lack of services, lack of opportunities and whatever other reason/excuse you can come up with don't justify these actions but we would be irresponsible not to look at what factors may have contributed to this and look to address them.  Unfortunately these kinds of public disorder can embolden the thugs and if they get away with it it can lead to further problems down the line.  A look at the 'career' of Mark Lambie who was involved in Broadwater Farm proves this.

Was bad enough already.  Sigh.  Very sad.  RIP to them.

Found the ringleader

(http://i463.photobucket.com/albums/qq354/slimfandango/tumblr_lppgowbwg41r1qajlo1_500.png)

southwark and greenwich councils looking into evicting any tenants found to have been rioting, croydon, hammersmith and fulham considering joining in too. housing minister grant shapps has tweeted that he'll support any social landlords who choose to evict

It is a joke to me when I hear kids have a sense of hopelessness or a lack of opportunities in this country. Every single child has access to quality education free of charge, if they get sick they will be looked after free of charge, they can access free libraries with free computers, there is an abundance of apprenticeships and free training available to get into work. You can set up your own business from nothing and many have. The list is endless. I mean how many opportunites do people want? There are lots of stories all around about how people have risen from nothing to achieve greatness or at least achieve a good standard of living through simple endeavour. These problem kids can't be arsed to work hard and grasp the abundance of opportunities they have on offer. And nobody is to blame for that but them.

I look at the pictures on the news where kids die every day in Africa because they don't have clean water to drink or enough food to eat and I think it is those people who have a right to feel hopeless. Parents scrimping every penny together so they can pay for their children to go to school and often going without themselves to make that sacrifice.

The problem with the spoilt kids in the Uk is that they think the world owes them a living and they are deserving of reward without working hard to achieve it. If you don't want to work hard because of what your mates will say then you will have nothing, and you will deserve to have nothing.

This sure will happen.

Of course it will happen, it's just that once evicted they'll be put up in a more expensive house somewhere else.

Agree with that.

A lot of the problem for these kids is boredom and their role models.  The gang members are what they aspire to be and look up to, and they fall into crime very early on.  Not sure if there's a simple solution to address the peer-pressure and lack of guidance/positive role-models.

I don't know why me, you, or anybody else in society is obligated to find a solution to their boredom problems. I don't get bored myself as I'm forever working hard to provide for a better future. The way I would solve it is get that woman who stole a bag of rice and bust her ass on a community chain gang for one year. The message would be quite clear that society doesn't tolerate this sort of behaviour. That society is already providing you with enough free stuff and if you throw it back in our faces you will pay a heavy price. If kids can't understand a year of hard graft and lack of liberty isn't worth a bag of rice then there's no hope for them in life anyway.

I accept that there isn't a simple solution to the lack of role models for this generation but fathers have to be involved in their kids lives and this idea that you can just run around siring kids and then play no further role in their lives is just absolutely crazy.   It is all very well to talk about how they have opportunities and that is theoretically true but they literally don't have any concept of how to do these things and who to turn to help get access to them.  Everyone is assuming that they understand the route out of poverty and to education and jobs but if nobody in your family has a job or ever started a business who do you turn to for advice.  To many of these kids the basics tenets of civiliized life seem like a world that is not accessible to them.  

These kids will be parents soon.

The problem is that stupid people breed with stupid people and create stupid children.

These stupid children are then educated primarily by their stupid parents so become even more stupid.

I know that occasionally you'll get a throwback to a previous intelligent gene in the family history but on the whole there's just more and more stupid genes being thrown together created a stupid nation.

Unfortunately because stupid people are stupid they breed a lot more than intelligent people so therefore the intelligent/stupid divide becomes wider and wider.

Until they put some kind of control on the number of children stupid people are allowed to have I'm afraid we're heading in a bad direction.

El Bulli has closed down as a Restaurant. It is now a training school they could never make it pay.

Regards

M

I think it's a lot more to do with nuture rather than nature, but the same net effect.

YouTube: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i1b74BdPfSQ

wow lol

Police brutality for sure

Pretty much this, i was going to think of a more elegant way to put it, but opted not to.

There is no easy solution to stopping the actual mentality behind this as the problem is already a generation in.

If i had seen both my parents have a decent life without ever having gone to work then i would probs have done the same. If i was already like that and saw ppl getting free shit down the high st, then obv i would get involved. Morals and ethics need to be instilled early doors imo which falls to the parents.

I also believe if more had been done over the last decade or so to tackle yob culture at the lowest level then we would never have had to deal with this shit. Curfews etc might stop the looting etc in the short term but it wont actually change their perspective or tackle the actual rationale behind their actions.

I really wish we were more like Germany, Belgium etc when it comes to stuff like this. Probs best thing to come out of the whole thing is this thread..

Press are gonna have a field day with this, one of the cops throws something over the wall and i can't figure out what it is. Any ideas?

I think it is less a case of this than they see one of their parents (normally the mother) struggling with maybe two jobs to bring up a couple of kids and still they don't have much more of a life than a council flat and a bus pass.  On the other hand there are a couple of guys in the neighbourhood that have got nice cars, watches, got on holiday a couple of times a year and they sell drugs or are robbers and don't seemt o do that much work and lead a nice lifestyle.  It is difficult to keep kids on the right path when those are the only two paths that they see people having gone down.  They need realistic examples of people that have acheived nice lives and realistic success through proper hard work and those examples are so few and far between in those communities.  The life choice seems simple work hard and struggle or thief and hustle and prosper. 

YouTube: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e5oEhOBmG9w

This guy can't be serious. Cliffs: " Police have a license to kill, when it comes to black people "

 It will take a fair few baton whacks, we wont even let them out with plastic bullets.

Working hard and struggling or turning to crime for easy rewards is a choice open to every one of us.

lol @ that clip..Sky clearly knew what the guy's opinion would be. Sensationalist press by a very very poor news channel.

Not so sure. I would have to see the exact stats but i am pretty sure that the amount of non working single mothers (that is discounting the non working parents living as a couple) will outweigh the single mothers with one or two jobs. Certainly in the areas reported in London. I think you are giving too much credit to the previous generation. But one thing i do agree is that there is a distinct lack of decent role models, but these have to come from people they can relate to and closer to home.

Although i'm not a fan of the music/film role models argument that some people take. First album i bought was Rap Hits 96 and my fav film as a kid was Menace 2 Society but ive still never shot a shop keeper in the face. Has to start at home imo.

Used to be a big fan of the BBC, but i must admit i think Sky News have pissed all over BBC for reporting this.

You like having a poke at Sky and the Daily Mail don't you?   BBC/Guardian fan by any chance?

Silly to compare the Mail with the Guardian. The Guardian is a (reasonably) serious newspaper. The Mail would be more accurately compared to The Mirror and The Guardian more realistically to The Times imo.

I love having a poke at sensationalists and racists, yes. Sky News and especially Kay Burley are ridiculously bad. (BBC News is shit as well TBH.)

The Daily Mail is for racists by racists.

Not a big fan of BBC news either TBH but it's a lot less sensationalist than Sky news is. As a whole I think that 24 hour rolling news has brought nothing to reporting and has actually just dragged reporting standards down to tabloid level.

I don't mind the Guardian too much (Obv ist's a MUCH better paper than the Daily Mail and everyone who disagrees is an idiot), just don't like the tree huggers that read it. If I still had time to read a hardcopy newspaper I would definitely more a Telegraph person.

Amazingly I'm not a lefty. I just don't like racists and I think that Britain would be a better place if more people in the UK would learn to read newspapers rather than just buy them because they have plenty pictures in them.

lol snoozepapers

According to stats from gingerbread 56.7% of single parents work and this rises to 71% of single parents with kids over 12 which is about the same rate as for mothers that are a part of a couple.  They are significantly poorer though with an average income of about £400 for the hosuehold against £600 or so for couple families with one worker which makes sense as single mothers are less likely to be able to pursue a good career due to childcare restrictions etc.

and lol modern mainstream media

its all aimed at the idiots you are talking about in this thread

I could not agree more with this statement if it came with a topless Kelly Brook.

BBC News is hamstrung by having to do things like check facts and sources properly - Sky News is far more able to report rumours and gossip as news, which always makes the BBC look as if they're being slow, which is not great for a rolling news channel.

Yea thats why I said certainly within the areas in London. Will have a look if i can find any specific figures for them areas and get back to you.

"I love having a poke at sensationalists and racists, yes. Sky News and especially Kay Burley are ridiculously bad. (BBC News is shit as well TBH.)

The Daily Mail is for racists by racists."

What an incredibly stupid thing to post.  Sky News, Kay Burley and journalists of The Daily Mail are all racists.  I see.

Perhaps you could log onto Skynews/DailyMail websites for today and give us an example of this racism?  Or perhaps a racist quote from Kay Burley?

WTF?  Are you suggesting that this country's libel laws are different depending on whether it relates to Sky or BBC?

lol, surely you can read 1 sentence? I said, as you quoted,
I called Kay Burley and Sky News sensationalist.
Surely calling Kay Burley sensationalist is not disputable?

Sigh, this is what you get when you buy newspapers because they have pictures rather than words in them.

Its good to hear the juges giving the fukers very harsh sentances today, one sky reporter saying they are handing down severe punishments for those caught at appearing infront of the magistrates today

Sky is an independent organisation and not hamstrung by politicians and a board that hammers down down everytime they are considered to be giving un balanced views.

Boldie are you thick as cheap mince?  Perhaps you could learn some basic sentence construction before you get abusive.

Consider the following:

"I love having a poke at overrated players and cheats, yes.  Man Utd and especially Wayne Rooney are ridiculously bad."

Is Wayne Rooney overrated or a cheat from this sentence?  He is both.

Try to engage your brain before you post.

Engaging brains before posting is probably a good idea all round, lest things stray into flaming and, thus, deletions.

What is flaming - Insulting people?

So Boldie has a grammatical car crash and then insinuates that I am an idiot and I can't defend myself?

Perhaps it would be best if Boldie just withdrew his allegation via clumsy prose that Sky are racists.

But I shall take on board your warning over flaming.

You could conduct your discussion in Dutch maybe?

PC gone mad?

Nope, it's working fine.

.

Regards

M

The PC is responsible for this brigade could not be more ridiculous. Political Correctness concerns words/terms that may be considered offensive by certain people, that's it, nothing else just words that some people may rightly or wrongly deem to be offensive. Whether political correctness is good or bad for the country is an entirely different debate but it's hard to imagine anything that could be more irrelevant to the situation that is being discussed. Also probably best to forget the idea that left wing political views are responsible for rioting. Left wing governments are about the harshest in the history of the modern world for responding to this type of behaviour aggressively and we haven't had a left wing government in britain for >30 years. Anybody who associates left wing governments with a softly, softly approach to public disorder should think of Mao, Stalin and Castro to name just a few.

I might criticise Northampton a lot but it only had 1 incidence of 'rioting' yesterday when some kids threw stones at a police van and then were promptly arrested. Nothing else after that. Partly down to the attitude of the locals against crime i think - this is of course where the granny incident occured. YouTube: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NkIH1aWeMiI

lol @ someone telling boldie to engage his brain ;)

They would have to apply to a court for an ASBO to evict the tenants.
If the tenant had children in the household it would be very unlikely to to be granted.
If the riot conviction was the only evidence of anti social behaviour it would be unlikely, but if it was on top of other previous problems it would have a reasonable chance of success.

Also, the judges could be instructed to throw the book at everyone (although still probably not the ones with kids)

If they were evicted they could apply for emergency accommodation, which they would be given for the few weeks it took to file a report on their circumstances - this would conclude that they made themselves intentionally homeless and they'd be chucked out and have to find a private landlord who accepts their housing benefit.

The key things would be: the housing associations and local authorities would have to actually go through with what they're saying and the judges would have to be instructed to be severe - both of those could happen, but I'm sceptical that either will.

[  ] You actually know what Political Correctness is.

Definition =  PC is a term which denotes language, ideas, policies, and behavior seen as seeking to minimize social and institutional offense in occupational, gender, racial, cultural, sexual orientation, certain other religions, beliefs or ideologies, disability, and age-related contexts

Couple of examples of PC gone mad imo not relating to a word/term:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/west_yorkshire/4305798.stm (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/west_yorkshire/4305798.stm)
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1392628/Schoolboys-aged-seven-reprimanded-teachers-playing-soldiers.html (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1392628/Schoolboys-aged-seven-reprimanded-teachers-playing-soldiers.html)
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1306887/White-couple-told-adopt-black-Asian-child.html (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1306887/White-couple-told-adopt-black-Asian-child.html)

The world's gone mad....

YouTube: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0cbVW_QS2eE

has anyone called the police?

Made me chuckle.

(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-yxKa4o2OHi8/TdQX81TklAI/AAAAAAAASN8/kjFC6iAuBJo/s400/think_of_the_children.jpg)

lol. I got to 9 seconds in just as i took a swig of beer. It was almost all over the screen!

sigh, obv been posted. nvm


Justiceeeeeeee

Please don't be so silly.  A 1.38min clip really isnt going to tell the whole story.   How would you like them to handle it?

Offer him a nice cup of tea.

You're right. From a 1.38 min clip we know absolutely nothing. Nothing at all. From the fact that they assault an individual who has just got off his bike, is offering no resistance, continue to hit him when on the ground, and then on conclusion of this make no attempt to arrest him but simply walk on, this could EASILY be someone who has just been witnessed shooting at people round the corner and a major threat to them.  
Get real.

How to handle it? Turn him round and cuff him, like they're trained to do. What is their justification for striking him? If he resists, then you can force him to the ground. This isn't Nigeria you know. People have rights.

Not saying it's defo the case, however at the end of the clip it shows a line of officers at the other end of the street from which the youths have came. Could it not be the case that prior to dashing off into the path of the second group of officers that they had been up to mischieve against the group of officers they were moving away from?

It was very obvious from the start that the first group of officers were reacting to some sort of order/incident, they certainly can't see the youths from their starting position. Always help to look at the whole picture. Whilst the clip doesn't give all the answers asked here it does show the possibilities that it wasn't just a case of officers turning the corner, seeing some youths and deciding to beat them for the hell of it.

Geo

If i ever loot, steal, threaten, bully, terrorise, menace, antagosie, harass, torment, torture, dispute, scrap, riot, abuse, brawl, hurl, hassle, gbh, burn or kill.  I'm sure i'll accept that my 'rights' are taken away from me.

Meh same as earlier in the thread, we're never going to see eye to eye over this.

Geo - I read somewhere that the chopper was following those youths.

It was very obvious from the start that the first group of officers were reacting to some sort of order/incident,

Why would that change what I wrote? Or is that supporting my "theory"

Geo

Anyone, police/normal people, can only ever use force that is reasonable. It can't be excessive.
If you think he's got a gun, smash his arms in. If he's resisting arrest, up the pressure. He's just got off his bike, and is moving to the ground. The full story will come out, but I'd bet £50 that this is just thuggery by the riot police here, judging by the way they just walk away from him. What are they hitting him for? In the process of an arrest? wtf they then just walk away from him. And if there are 3 of you, he is on the ground, and putting his hands up to protect himself from blows, why are you then jabbing him near the head with your riot shield? (0:24).

Are these kids rioters? Probably
Are they behaving scummily? Probably
Does this mean the police can suddenly act outside the law? You seem to think so, please explain why.

The Law that applies to these situations is specific and there for a good reason. This episode will be seen as justification for more violence and will support original theories that the police are heavy handed laws-unto-themselves.

amazing how people view this so differently.

I saw the kid on the bike today on Sky, and said out loud to myself, "about time too"

The Police have had everything thrown at them for 3-4 days, and have no "real" power to stop anything, so the rioters carry on with no regard for property, human life or anything.  Other louts from other areas saw this and were encouraged, think no doubt if they can we can.  so it spreads...

It has been made very clear, get off the streets and stop watching these criminals.  Why on earth would you be out on the street with this going on, unless you were intent on doing something.

Good on them I say, as 100% that kid ain't on the streets tonight - Job Done!

What if they Police ignored him, as he wasn't "doing anything" and he went around the corner and torched something...the Police would have been lamblasted for not dealing with a "youth on the rioting streets"  We saw in London that standing watching people loot didn't work.. The public were and are screaming out for more action from the Police - about time we saw it.

Human rights is great for the right reasons, not protecting muppets like this.  Fk'em, and their hiding behind Lawyers.  go in and go in hard, 100% it would quell it in one night.

You commit a crime, you lose your rights.

Extreme case - bet you don't get much if any shoplifting in places like Saudia arabia - wonder why.  We are imo to soft, and too worried about consequences by  lawyers actions.

If someone commits a crime, that permits the police to act outside the law?

I am generally fairly liberal but if I had spent the last three or four days having bricks and petrol bombs thrown at me whilst watching a couple of my mates carted off to hospital for injuries sustained during these attacks then I came across someone i thought was one of the perpetrators I would be tempted to give them a clump and i think it would be a sad indictment on our society if these coppers face any serious disciplinary action for this.  If the guy they hit was completely innocent then he, of course, deserves an apology and a couple of quid compensation but if he is innocent I am sure he will understand why it happened too.

It should permit them to deal with the person(s) how they see fit at the time of the incident.   Common sense approach of course, reasonable force is fine in theses situ's  Why shouldn't they!  This was fine imo, he was dealt with in a way the i reckon 99/9% of the public agreed with.

If some-one was damaging your property, or putting you or your family lifes at risk,  wouldn't that give you the right to act how you see fit at the time.  Wouldn't you want the backing of the public and law makers in dealing with the criminal / thug that was breaking the law in the first place.

I've been banging my head against a wall for a few minutes after reading ur posts.   Ur clearly very anti-police, this isnt going to change.  So for my own sanity I'm out replying.

These looters are really taking the piss now.

(http://i.imgur.com/zczD0.png)

Those robbing scum didn't get a beating they deserved they got a slap, kick and a tikkle. I wouldn't class that as brutality at all.

If somebody says that we have, as a society, somehow failed these riotous youths.
If somebody says that we urgently need to address the underlying socio-political factors which caused them to riot.
If they talk about a lack of social mobility or inequality.

Then you should enthusiastically agree.

Then conclude that we need to cut benefits.

The biggest barrier to social mobility is not a lack of oppurtunity, but a lack of incentive for young people to take these oppurtunities.

When offered the choice of a shitty job or no job, people need to be encouraged to take the shitty job. The way to incentivise this is to give them less shit for free when they have no job. Cut benefits. It's not about forcing people into poverty, it's about forcing people to get a job if they want a £300 Blackberry.

The people who earn the largest incomes and the people who earn the lowest incomes are very often the same people, just at different points in their lives. Most people earning six figures now are middle aged or near retirement. They didn't earn six figures when they were in their twenties. They start low and they work hard. They start their own buisnesses or get promoted. They take their experience and references and get better jobs and repeat the process. Give these poor rioters a hand by incentivising the beginning of this process.

Tariq Jahan. Incredible speech. Massive respect for that man.

YouTube: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UZ1VjUSKevc

+1 Incredible.

This man does deserve some Government recognition.

To speak like this while suffering his loss is amazing.

Regards

M


 

spot on

or into crime of course. prisons are pretty much full up aren't they? even if they are not, guessing it costs more to keep someone in prison than to give them benefits?

I think the problem is there is little incentive to move off benefits once you're on them - you can get a job and end up a lot worse off. Surely that's not right?

Remember this guy?
(http://i463.photobucket.com/albums/qq354/slimfandango/Ian20Tomlinson20Police20Battering2.png)

Copper coming round the corner this time probably didn't even know who the guy was, just a guy on a bike coming from the scene of some trouble.

If reducing benefits increases crime will increasing benefits reduce crime?

If benefits were 20% higher than they are now and somebody proposed a 17% reduction, the argument would surely be made that this forces people into crime. Would this be valid?

If we double benefits will that help reduce crime? If so surely not by as much than if we tripled them? Personally I think most crimbos will be crimbos irregardless of how much we give them for doing hee haw

I understand my policy may have downsides. Pretty much everything does, there's rarely any win win, even though that's how we try to sell things. I don't accept that the short term difference in crime rates would be massive though, I mean how much worse can it get? Medium and long term the plan is that it will reduce youth unemployment and in so doing reduce the crime rate.

Of course I'm not sure it'll work. I think it's worth considering though.

Not up for reducing all benefits, just those for young people.

People who've worked away and paid into the system for years before becoming unemployed should get more support.

just build prisons with the money saved from cutting the benefits, force them to work in the prisons like they do in the states.

Whilst I am sympathetic to the logic in your arguments I just don't think that most of these people live in poverty on benefits.  They have been profit motivated criminals over the last couple of days and I am not convinced that isn't what they do all the time.  Whether that is shoplifting, robbery, drug dealing or whatever I don't think reducing their benefits will all of a sudden motivate them into work.  By all accounts there was a big correlation between those that were arrested in connection with Broadwater Farm for example and those arrested for serious criminality in the subsequent years.  We already know that Mark Duggan was a member of the Tottenham Man Dem gang  who are serious serious criminals so chances are that most of those involved Saturday up there were associates.  To be honest I think it is probably too late for all but a handful of these morons to be turned around.  Best place for them is prison and then we can get to work on the next generation.

 ;applause;

yes, awful..did he mean to kill him.....or was he moving him on?..nasty incident....but for ever 1 you give me, i'll give you a 1000 that are attacks on the police, who simply do there job.  how many missles, bricks, petrol bombs have th police thrown

I never got whacked by the police during the last 4 days..why...cause i stayed of the streets....not worth getting caught up in it

trust me i have very very much reason to hate the police on 2 occasions...and i do with certain branches.....they do wrong..they fk up and cover up...some are power driven bstads....liars etc

but not 1 one sec do i have any sympthony for any of the protesters wotsoever if they get battered.

+1
also i have said for years  any youth between 16-24 who has broken the law twice... third time 2 years national service.

i promise you this would change our society for ever....

How could you force anyone to do national service? Forcing people to fight and die for other people's money, ambitions, ideals and countries is not acceptable in a civilsed society.

alot of countrys do it..civilised ones :)

They might do the first bit, but do they do the second?

Great idea, but unless you put them in the infantry or transport they have to have half a brain

This argument stinks, since when should rioters be treated in a civilised way? They lost the right to civility when they stuck thier fingers up to society.

I didn't mention treating them in a civilsed way, I merely stated that no one should be forced to fight for other people's causes.

AND, if you were in the army would you want this type of scum backing you up?

No one should be forced into their homes for fear of being caught up in riots. The point about national service is to teach these scum about respect. National service is all about discipline not just about fighting.

These twats who have been causing all this shit the last few nights are same twats who don't respect anyone or anything. The twats who walk in front of your moving car because they are hard (lol), the twats who throw litter on the floor, the twats who mug old ladies because they cant fight back, the twats who sit in parks smoking joints and drinking white lightening, the twats who walk down the streets holding their bollocks, the twats think they deserve good jobs without having to work hard for them.

These scum should be castrated and not allowed to breed more scum.

Excellant idea

they would not need to go as far as sending them in theatre...believe me basic training/battalion life would sort this scum out.

as bobalike said... teach them morals to what is normal in society

i honestly was not a badlad ...but at eighteen i could of gone either way ....i joined the army it taught me a hell of allot most importantly discipline

i like this post........

Please excuse me but for some reason this expression really pisses me off!!

Can we please keep on thread please things that piss you off should go here. lol
http://blondepoker.com/forum/index.php?topic=53953.0

love how people in the forces always think the forces are the answer

I'm not or never have been in the forces

Traditionally/historically having lots of the criminal element in the army has been a good thing - for the army

It hasn't necessarily reformed all of them into not being criminals outside the army. but they have tended to make good soldiers.

YouTube: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HECMVdl-9SQ
Looks to me like he used excessive force which led to the man falling down (which may have caused his death).
Tomlinson had a pre-existing condition which made him vulnerable to death in the circumstances. None of the officers could have known this. Tough. You take your victim as you find them http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eggshell_skull If his force had been reasonable in the circumstances (ie within the law) he wouldn't currently be facing an involuntary manslaughter charge.

[ ] It's a dead easy job for the police in these circumstances, you just ask rioters to move on, otherwise cuff them.
  Their own lives are threatened, it's chaotic, you have to herd people almost like animals, and non-protesters are getting caught up in the mayhem. But the fact is that the vicious over-aggressive lawless violence that the police are fighting is present in part in their own ranks too. The police aren't all angels. Donning a badge and riot gear doesn't give them licence to do whatever they want. They are trained in how and when to use force. The original video seems to show a breach of this. Did they have any idea who the kid was? Did they know he was involved in violence? Were they trying to arrest him? Was he resisting this?
Or were they just giving him a good hiding for being a bad boy. Probably. Lol if you like a police force that behaves like this, move to the Third World. I've been on the receiving end of that crap there, it makes you value what's different about policing in the UK.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2009/nov/25/police-g20-inquiry-report
Denis O'Connor, Her Majesty's Chief Inspector of Constabulary, used his report to demand wide-ranging reforms and a return to an ideal of policing based on "approachability, impartiality, accountability and … minimum force".
He criticised the way officers were trained for the use of force, saying they wrongly believing "proportionality" means "reciprocity". Through the ranks, there was a failure to understand the law on policing protests.

I can guarantee that most people in the forces would not like national service to be an option for these scum. However if it was forced on them, there'd be a far better chance of instilling a bit more morality/respect for society in them than any other option open to them at present which currently seems to be youth workers, many of whom seem to be more interested in politicsing (sp? not sure it's even a word) them into that individuals way of thinking.

TBH the "bring back National Service" chants I see mostly come from non-service personnell

Geo

LOL at youth workers trying to make them think a certain way but the army not!!!!

Methinks you'd be surprised. The Forces do not politicise, they merely train in warfare. Anyone joining the forces have their own political views. To force National Service on anyone whose political views are anti forces would be ridiculous.

As part of Education for promotion we used to have a subject, Army in the contemporary world (ACW) during which National Service is often debated with the majority of service people absolutely against it. And we are not talking merely National Service for criminals here, this is a debate on if the country felt the need to introduce NS for everyone should recruiting numbers not be sustainable.

Regardless of what I say it won't change your thoughts, but hey ho, each to their own.

Geo

Evidence please?

At what point was a large criminal element introduced into the Army that would support this statement?

The recruiting process has set limits for what is acceptable for past criminilaty. For example, a young person who had been put in front of the court for an offence deemed to be minor enough to be given a conditional discharge (guilty however no actual punishment applied) they would still have to wait something like 12 months after this has been served before being eligible to apply to join up.

Most other sentences would have at least the minimum rehabilitation period attached to it as per The Rehabilitation of offenders act 1974 before being allowed to apply to join up. Even this would not guarantee their acceptance dependant on the type of crime committed.

Geo

It probably would be a good idea if there was some sort of compulsory National Service - not teaching them how to shoot and that, but something closer to the Scouts, with the groups made up of a cross-section of society, so individual groups contain both people from Eton and those from council estates.

There would be a bit more of a community service aspect, along with more general discipline and fitness.

Not really relevant to the era's I was referring to

I totally agree Andrew, generally a boot camp type of thing without the military link.

Geo

What era's? and again evidence please?

The 74 act is the one still prevelant at this time, previously there would have been other limits?

Or is this based on watching The Dirty Dozen?

Geo

I haven't got any history books to hand but here's a reference

http://www.oldbaileyonline.org/static/Punishment.jsp#miscellaneouspunishments

I 'believe' the US did have the army as an alternative to jail in the 20th century but I haven't got the time to look for references.

whilst in basic training at about week 8 or 9  something happened that resulted in me spending 28 days in jail....

 the reason is irrelevant...


the point being.. this  28 days( i think i done 26 two days off for being a good boy)..are what turned me into

a, a good soldier
b, a good civilised human being.

that along with the rest of my training and advaced training i think set me up for life

i honestly believe this would be good for young kids of today

most forces will always think the same because of  the way of life...its normal

The training, routine and discipline maybe. But you cannot force people to go and put their lives at risk for you own ideals. Might be different if they were required to fight for their country.

i think after two years no fighting war zones etc... then can choose to stay for ..lets say 3 years and go to Afghanistan etc probs 50% would  do...by choice

I know exactly where you are coming from. The Russians especially, used to have Penal Battalions, my point is I doubt there is any evidence that suggests that the criminals made any better a soldier than a non criminal, it is also doubtful that there is any evidence that it helped them be less criminally inclined.

Geo

Yep, that sounds like a very good idea.

I specifically said that I didn't think it made them less criminally inclined.

I don't think they made 'better' soldiers, they just weren't necessarily worse - it would be a hard subject to research without a lot of work - but the armys a lot of them served in were very good, so that could be seen as circumstantial evidence that they were at least 'as good' as any of the other soldiers.

This could actually be a very good way of reducing the number of troublemakers - train them up for suicide missions against Nazi strongholds.

i had a debate about this years ago national service isnt the answer but a national community service would be a benifit,young people having to do 6 months or a year  of service to the community after they leave full time education, work in the nhs or the police or army or helping the elderly anything community based to help them feel as if they are part of the community.
other european countries have simliair programs

Works that way in Germany - National Service or National Community Service. I've pals who say that National Service was the making of them & others who were totally anti so went the other route and felt they gained a lot doing the community service. None of them seem to want to do away with it.