blonde poker forum

can i ask what your information sources are?  and why u had no involvement on the game which anyone who is anyone knew the sharps were going to back heavily S Korea v Greece and move the market substantially (nearly half a goal in asia which is huge in a game of this standard) yet your investment fund never got involved in the game which is most suitable for 'riskfree' pre match greening up.  I can only assume this is what i have always thought it was just a guessing game pre match of which way the market would go without any real knowledge of the market or whose money actually moves the market.

I know nothing of arbitrage speak, is this guy rubbing Blatch down?

Because the money was tied up in the England game later that day.

On Saturday I was out at Leicester races all day so took the option to do the England game instead of trying to do more than one.

As for the information sources - no you can't.  I dont believe you are involved in this, my apologies if you are, but Im not going to disclose what, or how, I use or receive information.

I must be pretty good at guessing :)

Ah right, so he basically points out where you went wrong, accuses you of guessing then asks for your secrets.

Pretty much but it goes a bit deeper than that.

so your 'information sources' would advise u to avoid the game which was going to be the biggest gamble of the first round and hence give u the biggest opportunity for 'riskfree' profit by a mile.   There wont be another game in this world cup which moves this much i 100% gtd that.    You only had to read the racing post world cup pull out and the shrewder firms in the list (4 of which all put up S Korea as their best bet of the 1st round - one of whom i know personally who knows people who move markets with their money)  Many were a bit worried that too many people had let the cat out of the bag but the shrewdies all still got on a gamble that went from 3.3 to 2.7 and obliged in style.

Virtually no one on this thread knows anything about football betting at the real sharp end and like i said before the fact you chose to get involved in an england game instead of the biggest gamble of the whole event just shows that your so called 'information sources' are nothing other than guess work.  What amazes me is the amount of people who have invested in this.  

Yeah we all lumped on South Korea.

we certainly did. oioiiiiiiiii

Ah I get it, you must have sucked out on this guy at DTD or someink.

Seriously though arbboy, what do you care? Surely if Blatch is missing out on something or making bad gambles, that is better for you no? I can only assume you have some sort of unrelated grievance with Blatch and you are choosing to try and make him look silly on a thread where he has made lots of people money. Being as you only have a dozen forum posts and the other ones you are trying to flog something, Im sticking with Blatch tx

Did he say he was advised to avoid this game, or that he was away from his computer, and therefore couldn't trade on it?

arbboy, you can make the same point in a less aggressive manner.

You obviously know stuff about football trading, prob more than all of us who have invested but try and say what you want in a non-confrontational manner imo.

To be fair he does have a point- investing funds into the England game meaning that they are tied up for the Korea game was a mistake- Korea were 6-4 in places with the bookies early on but 2-1 and higher in others, so the market clearly hadnt settled and I had them as a certain market mover, where as the England game was harder to call in terms of trading due to a few factors. Plus the upside to a Korea market move was far more substantial than an England market move/drift. Englands price couldnt move 20 spots ever, whilst the Koreans definitely could.

Even the best make mistakes Blatch :)

If you were lucky (or had the balls) to invest in the start you might have an idea of the ROI on this so far.........

Blatch u are my hero......

Arbboy trades full time btw. So im sure he is fine with not investing.

Also to be fair to Blatch he obviously has other things going on .....the races, Vegas, poker etc ;D

....he ain't going to do every match, and as long as he's showing a steady profit , I recon 99% of us backers are going to be well happy.

Ah I see.... Maybe he can share some of his of knowledge on here..... ;marks;

Reason I asked Blakey was cos pops was asking me why he hadn't made a profit since he invested in Feb (is it now a loss?) despite me chirping about winning every week before then.

Sigh.

Hi Blatch,

I was discusing this with a friend the other day who said he might be interested in investing a significant figure, he asked to me to ask if you a couple of questions. Sorry if these have been answered before but i have only recently started reading the thread.

Do you provide weekly or monthly screen shots of the profit/loss page ?

Do you trade during the games or just before ?

Cheers

Dean

Is it Chris Eddleman?

i said someone with money

You may well be right Dave. 

The reason I didnt do the Greece game isnt because of any gambling or betting factors its simply because of my whereabouts on the day.  I didnt want to be out for a mates birthday and having to worry about trading out of poisitions etc.  Leicester races had arranged the day so that the England game would be shown on a big screen at the racecourse after the racing had finished.  Therefore I knew this would give me enough time to trade out of the England game without any hassle.

The reason i am getting involved is because 3 or 4 poker players have asked me whether they should invest in this 'scheme' 2 of whom were going to invest substantial 4 figure sums and are good friends. They all respect my knowledge of sports betting given my success in the field.  I have no needle with anyone here but i am giving a balanced opinion from someone who has worked at the sharp end of this game for 10 years on both sides of the fence as a trading director/senior trader for firms and for myself in the markets.   I have a personal bf account which is miles into 2% and i have never been staked in my life preferring to do it the 'proper way' through hard work and solid bankroll management from a 4 figure starting bank at the start.

I have watched this thread for a while now after the poker players above asked for my advice some months ago and just dont see how the investment manager has any edge doing what he does.  

For a start i would be happy to lay a big price he hasnt got a 2% bf account to start with which automaticaly reduces the bottom line profit straight away quite substantially over a season or in a reverse angle of thinking means he has to be more successful than a 2% punter to return the same level of return to them.  Given he needs staking for this operation it would virtually impossible for his account to be anywhere 2% given the volume needed to be a 2% punter on bf and secondly given he is not a position taker on this operation i am assuming he is a 'green up' merchant on other betfair biz therefore making his commission level higher because of the way the bf commission structure rewarding position takers which he isnt.

Secondly does the investment manager actually know anyone who's money actually move these markets?    I would be pretty confident in outside of Tony Bloom he couldnt name 5 people who make their living in the uk from betting soccer and are responsible for the market moves due to their success/skill in pricing games up. I am assuming he doesnt have the necessary skill they have to confidently price up games to the accuracy levels they do therefore he has to rely on other 'edges' to make a profit.  I can only assume from his non involvement in the biggest gamble of the world cup by a mile preferring to focus on a rock solid eng v USA match which was never going to move at all that he does know no one ine the game who moves these markets otherwise he would have been all over the korea game like a ash.  just do the maths on his total bank going on that game at 3.3 and greening up around 2.7 and then work out how much profit was lost.  even if u assume 3.2 and 2.8 to avoid the extremes its still massively substantial.

[  ] riiggghhhttttt i get it

thread just got goooooooood!

There is still no reason at all for you to be getting involved.  You say you have 3 or 4 poker players that want to get involved ...... fine - tell them its no good and be done, but there  is no need to come on here and abuse what I have been doing.

The fact that you say you have 3 or 4 poker players wanting to invest "substantial" 4 figures I wanted to lol a bit.  I already have numerous poker players involved, some currently the best in the country and they have 5 figure sums involved, so they obviously feel comfortable in doing this.

I also have never, ever claimed to have a 2% comission rate.  Infact I think on atleast 8 different occasions I have stated via pm exactly what the current comission level is.  I have also stated, if you had bothered to read the thread that this is a new account and therefore it would start of 5% commision.  I have also stated numerous times the reasons why I was doing this and why it is in a different account to my main betfair account.

Yes I know a few people who moves the markets but why do I have to know them to know which way the markets will go?

All in all, your not welcome on this thread and generally after your episode on selling the WSOP package I havent actually seen how you have contributed to this forum as a whole.

arbboy - this magic 2% bf account that you are so proud of?

If you are doing as well as you say, are you not also paying the 20% premium charge also?

every judge in the game was on this game hence the gamble.  If u dont believe me read the racing post pull out for the world cup and two of the best informed british based firms on sharp soccer action both put it up as their bet of the first round alongside 2 others.  When i invest money into something and i miss the biggest return of an event like he has done here i would want a better excuse than 'i went to leics races' or  'i did the england game instead' for missing out.  

The third factor is whether the guy can actually accurately price up football matches to 100%.  If u cant do this its very hard to know whether the current market price is right or wrong.  Given he has no experience of working in the industry i would have to assume this isnt the case.  

The fourth factor regarding this is why a guy in his 30s who is so skilled at beating the market needs staking for this (esp as he has had some decent live cashes in his career to kickstart any bankroll he may need) and seemingly every other venture he does (like playing a $5/$10 cash in vegas on another staking thread - how big a roll seriously do u need to play that if its as soft as he says it is).  I would seriously struggle to invest in someone running an investment pool who has been gambling for a long time and needs staking into such small things.  IT usually suggests they arent quite as successful as they think they are.  It might be something to do with the fact that the said investment manager likes to spin up between £500-£1000 on one spin of a roulette wheel (backing 28/29 7 section of the wheel with a bundle of £50s if i wasnt mistaken) which occured the night after the pokerstars event at dtd at alea casino in nottingham.  I was present to witness it and you suddenly realise why the guy probably hasnt got the roll to do this himself.   I dont know too many people who would be so keen to invest in people who manage money in this manner.  Maybe if he didnt spunk such cash on negative ev investments then maybe he would be able to roll himself properly for a $5/$10 cash game.

The whole staking thing really annoys me when people who get staked cant control their own bankroll.  They never stop to think that maybe if they didnt spunk money for fun they might be able to put away the begging bowl and do it themselves if they are good enough.

chris -  most position takers on bf (unless they are insanely successful over a long period of time % wise which is virtually impossible) dont pay the premium charge.  The premium charge has a complex formula but to keep it simple it punishes people who suck money out of th bf system without giving much back in the way of commission (ie green up merchants or people who lay 1000/1 or back 1.01 about things which are already beat/won)  Against popular belief you can be a massive winner on bf and not pay the premium charge if you take positions conversely you can pay the premium winning a relatively small amount of money depending on how you win it.  I know this will sound like double dutch to most people but its actually fact. 

Blakey,

As you keep all the football trading in its own separate account and post all the information on here, this is something I think you should do.

FYP

Arbboy i stuck up for u but i dont think u understand how "staking" on this thread works. Blatch is selling at 1-1 meaning he gains nothing from other investors other than reducing his commission rate as not everyone wants to play 100 sngs a day on betfair.

Yes i had a 2% account before i was banned from bf.

And not everything in life is about ev. I bet on stuff all the time that i KNOW is a -ev bet. Why? Cos its fun and because i can.

U can know NOTHING about football and still have an edge in understanding market movements.

This thread is going downhill rapidly as people dont understand what they are saying/attempting to argue about.

Yeah this. A lot of people, good and bad poker players, rich and poor ones take non EV gambles. You saw Blatch have a big spin on roulette. So what?

What did u get banned for Dr Dubai?

Coming 2nd a LOT in sit and go,s

I think

dubai the reason being YOU CAN.  equally you wouldnt ask for staking into a $5/$10k cash game then go and spunk a buy in on one spin of a roulette wheel.  well maybe u would i dont know.

i just thought i would add some balance to the thread because although most of his investors are serious winning poker players they presumably know very little about the football markets.

If i had told the 2 guys who asked me to invest and said yes and then seem the investment manager had missed the biggest gamble of the world cup i wouldnt have been very happy for them.

But even with mistakes it doesnt mean its not a good investment. It just means its not an investment that is paying the maximum dividend. Big difference.

Plus the roulette argument is silly. If Blatch has £1k on red every night, he is losing £27. Same as a takeaway. I doubt u would moan at an "investment manager" spending £27 on a takeaway every night.

how did the investment managers contacts and information sources all not inform him of the biggest sharp gamble of the world cup?   possibly because he doesnt have any shrewd sources or contacts one would imagine at a guess.  This game was absolutely perfect for the pre match greening up army and the guy misses out.

He did say it was a mistake but he was out. Money aint everything and life has other priorities but as I said it doesnt make it a bad investment. It just makes it a non profit maximizing one- but life comes before money and not everything is as black and white as maximizing EV

we're not paying for his service though.

He's doing it for free so we aren't entitled to complain if he misses out on one trade etc

arrboy if what you say is true then you obviously have good info and are doing very well from it.

Blatch from the start has said this was an experiment/punt that he wanted to try over the year and this was made clear to all investors at the start. (I have not invested)

The trading got off to an unbelievable start that could not be sustained, but over the year Blatch has still shown a healthy profit doing something that is not easy.

Of course there will allways be somebody in the market with better information and skills than you but there is still a profit to be made for someone like Blatch.

This is not an investment for your pension but one for spare speculative cash.

Blatch is the king of scams.


All hail.


And arbboy where is your thread making people money for free and betting on every game because you don't have any time for yourself when you work for free for other people? Also most of your gripes were answered before any money changed hands.

I don't think the msn conversation is that relevant tbh, however, as someone who know nothing about this field I was interested to read about the Korea/Greece situation. I understand that this isn't a fulltime interest for Blatch, but the holidays/pokerevents etc must be cutting into the EV significantly, however, as others have stated, he's not charging a premium.

Hope Blatch goes on a mad run of "+'s" as a comeback

Why is my name mentioned and particularly when its close to 30 odd,  which i aint close to yet haha!

no idea dubai why he asked if i know you.  I have no idea who the guy is or his name as his msn title didnt state it.  i still think it might be a wind up from someone but i thought i would post it anyway just in case the numbers are true which he quotes.  maybe the investment manager could confirm whilst he answers my other questions which are still unanswered.

Hey arbboy.

The person who you had the conversation on MSN with has asked me to remove it from the public domain which I have done (Sorry Ace2M, I had to remove your post too)

quote author=TightEnd link=topic=43354.msg1191462#msg1191462 date=1276623149]
Hey arbboy.

The person who you had the conversation on MSN with has asked me to remove it from the public domain which I have done (Sorry Ace2M, I had to remove your post too)


[/quote]

ah, was seriously confused for a min there.

fwiw i think blatch has done a great job considering he's asked for nothing, he set out his pitch from the outset and said it was an experiment, nothing guaranteed!  I invested 4 figures in this and have made money for which i am grateful, i haven't yet received my payment yet but i did withdraw before the world cup started so this doesn't affect me anymore but if everyone, or the majority of people are happy with what they are getting in on then i don't see why u are still trying to stir it up.  

I respect your view because you clearly know what your talking about and are a success in your own right but like someone else said no need to be so confrontational.  Also Blatch clearly knows who the guy from the msn conversation is as only a handfull of people pulled out before the WC and he stated the amount he invested so he hasn't really remained anonymous.  To mr anonymous I'm hoping you will get your money within the next week because then I'll have mine :) and even thought he didn't give you a massive ROI once you put it into perspective of what a bank would have returned you in interest, or if your like me then you would have already spent that money then I'm sure you'll realise it wasn't that bad at all.

the msn convo was from a genuine guy btw.

Ha ha

Arbboy is Blatch

Heads up trading for rollz imminent

Here comes the grim!

missing the biggest 'well known if in the know' pre game gamble at the world cup is pretty embarrassing for someone claiming to have good contacts/knowledge of this field.  Like i have said all along i am trying to put some balance to this thread as most of you are poker players and not full time sports investors.  I really have no axe to grind in the slightest but i have had people ask my for my professional opinion on this for a while and i have sat back and watched with interest for months now.  After missing the Korea gamble i just thought it would be fair to highlight to the investors in an neutral way that the 'contacts/infortmation' may not be quite as good as some have been led to believe.

Yes, it was.

However he did say on the convo he didn't want it to be public and has asked for it to be removed.

ok so the msn chat was real.  i was 90/10 it was a wind up.  The kid is now shitting himself on msn to me that he wont get his money back.  Obv his money is safe but the sum in question seems a lot to him.  I am sorry buddy for posting your msn as i seriously thought it was a wind up.

Lol this is funny. The guy had made some people a decent return as part of an experiment taking no cut along the way. We all knew the risks.

Absolute joke that he's receiving this shizzle Coz he was on the lash one night.

Agenda methinks.

Having a go at someone who is doing this for free, for not making ppl enough money, when you aren't even involved, seems well harsh to me.

I used to play arrboy on crypto on the stts all the time, always seemed to have an axe to grind and was ridic abusive in chat.

I've met him since and he seems a jolly enough chap who is friends with some good poker players and nice ppl-not that the two always go together. :)

However, you say you don't have an axe to grind, seems to me a little like you do.

Wow you are the nutz at trading, enjoy your money and don't start slinging abuse at someone who has shown a really good roi over the season.

Blatch openly admits this was about testing this out, and also a wish to help fellow blondes make a nice profit.

Having a go at him for playing roulette and getting staked for cash is just mud slinging rot and you should leave it out.

As for that msn convo that is just an absolute joke, u r basically insinuating stuff u shldnt.

Just my opinion.

Yeah posting the msn was wrong, especially when requested not to by the person

You make it sound like the world cup game was fixed.

Blatch was not staked.

Can you point to the bit where Blatch said he was using contacts ?

Sandy

But you obviously do.

Your posting history doesn't really fill me with confidence either.

LOL. That is all.

thats where i remember the name from, i agree with the highlighted....but he definately seems to know what hes talking about and i respect that like i said, just no need for the needle.

there is no agenda.  Like i say i have followed this closely for a number of months with a view to offering a partnership arrangement whereby the investors and i could mutually benefit from the fund being invested in my betfair account so the investors wouldnt lose 3% of every win out of the total bank by using my 2% account rather than 5% account the fund is currently using.  To put this into context if the fund had 200 winning trades a year of £3k lets asssume next season.   (losing trades dont count for commission because u dont pay any) that would be total gross winnings of £600k.   Less than 5% commission currently charged would give £570k after commission.  do this on a 2% account and the net returns after commission would be £588k.  £18k straight off the bottom line over a season given straight to bf purely because you are on 5% rather than 2% doing nothing different at all regarding staking.  The only loser doing this is betfair losing £18k of commisson from the investment fund.

I doubt its 5%, my Mum is on 4.2%, even my Nan would be less than that!!! Or whatever the current equivalent ie 2%= 60% discount etc

I'll wager a lot that he hasn't paid 5% most of the season.

Sandy

lol this is a joke right?

You say no agenda then talk about a partnership? Haha

Motive revealed. GG you.

be asking for a stake next

What's this? Come and use my 2% account on which I don't pay the 20% premium charge because I take a position and don't trade...to do your trading?

Good job arbboy hasn't got access to Boldie's staking forum.

:D

let me clarify i dont want any involvement in this investment plan having seen how the south korea game wasnt invested in.  I clicked reply before i finished my post by accident and added that i had been following this plan for most of the season and was impressed and genuinely thought the guy must have some decent contacts however having seen how this game wasnt included its pretty obvious that its not as well clued up as i thought and i wouldnt want to get involved and have peoples funds invested in my account.  It would never have been proposed to get involved in the investment decisions just purely to allow the fund to use my account at a mutually beneficial spot for both parties where the loser would have been betfair receiving lower commissions from the fund.   Numerous people use my betfair account to place bets when the upside is big and they arent on 2% in a similar manner to that proposed for obvious win win situation reasons.

Commas and a shift key would make your posts slightly more legible. 

It makes even more financial sense from chompys reply because if the investment fund was to become very successful its exactly the type of 'greening up' account which would be hit by the premium charge if there were hardly any games which made a loss.  Given its success so far if its on a brand new account from the start i would be surprised with a 60/10 win/loss trading ratio if its not paying the premium charge already.  

You said you'd read the thread and you've been keeping an eye on it? 

Did you forget to read the opening post of the thread?

http://blondepoker.com/forum/index.php?topic=43354.msg1015603#msg1015603

if the account suddenly had to pay 20% premium charge on top of lets say 4% commission then the returns from using a 2% account with no premium charge are quite sizeable.  Take 20% off the £600k profits in my realistic model as well as the commission and all of a sudden the amount given to betfair looks rather big (over £100k a season)  Remember this is the only overhead this business plan has and currently the plan is paying close to as high a fee as is possible.  IF and when the premium charge hits the model its returns will become a whole lot lower.   The only way to avoid this is to use a lower commission account which doesnt pay the premium charge.  Believe me these are hard to find.

epic

Finally a good post that's illuminating but want to make sure I get this straight - 5% of x is more than 2% of x ?

i dont understand your post

Think Blatch was quite up front about the investment. If he was charging money then I would probably agree with a lot of your points although voicing them on this thread is out of order imo.

Also if you've seen blatch play roulette you'd realise he is +EV

QFT

True story

why is it out of order to put some balance on this thread as most people who have invested in this although excellent poker players know little if anything about the sharp end of sports betting which betfair is.

What has being a degen who likes to take 1k spins on roulette got to do with someones trading or poker abilities ?

Blatch had a ridic sick good run at the start of this and has made most people profit,epic thread and run better soon.

Neil please can you post up, from the football trading account a statement of all activity by month for the last 3 months?

Pops is now on the thread and wants to see.

Cheers,

arse

being a regen on roulette normally hinders your ability to grow your roll when its small and means you are constantly begging for staking when you shouldnt be to play $5/$10 cash games you should easily be rolled to play if you are as talented as some are to beat the bf football markets.

arse

Again, have you actually read the first post of this thread?

U make getting staked sound like a weakness.

it really is a love in in this forum isnt it?  if u dont agree with everyone no one likes you.  if you say something factually correct but goes against the grain u get told to leave the thread/forum.  

What amazes me is that everyone who has invested in this 'scheme' hasnt asked to see proof of where their investment has gone and been invested.  Given the fact a seperate bf account is being used for this project it would be insanely simple to simply put a weekly/monthly/3monthly screen shot of the betfair P+L to prove the results.  like all other questions i have asked the investment manager he has ignored them and not replied.  Name me 5 people in the uk who make their living solely from football betting apart from tony bloom?   These are the people whos opinion moves markets whatever u actually think.  Without knowing what they are betting and why u are playing a game of guessing which way the market is going.  I know the majority of them either personally or via people i know.  Several months ago the investment manager actually implied on a thread here that what he was posting on here regarding market movements was actually causing global mainstream football markets to move of his opinion.  Markets which make millions of pounds in asia to move this guy was actually implying his opinion on blonde poker people in sufficient numbers were following him in and causing the market to collaspe.  I mean can you really take this seriously!!!!  

Maybe i am just a bit too streetwise or not down with the poker kids but when i invest a '5 figure sum' like several have i would expect to see first hand evidence of the results (ie a betfair screenshot of the P+L) when its so easy to do.  If nothing to hide then post it up and let the punters know where their cash is gone.  Numerous sports bettors i have shown this thread to have asked the same question 'why would the guy go to all this hassle unless there was something in it for him?'  'if he is so good at beating one of the toughest markets in the world to beat with a 5% deduction when most have 2% why would he a) do it for free and b) not be rolled to do it himself?

Sorry if i have ruffled a few feathers but given the fact the msn poster earlier wasnt that happy with his return i can only assume there are others out there like him.

maybe i am old school but staking is a massive weakness when if u curbed the leaks from ur regen behaviour u would be sufficiently rolled to play and keep 100% of ur profits rather than have to get the begging bowl out and give a % of ur profits away because u cant resist 28/9 split and 7 on a roulette wheel.  Staking has its time and its place but i really struggle to understand people needing staking when they spunk money for fun on negative ev bets.

Not everyone is as disciplined as you. If they were I doubt poker or even sports betting would be as big as they are. You'd probably be out of business in a week if people didn't have a punt outside of their "roll" on betfair

LOL at 'investment manager' - Blatch is just spinning up some beer money for his mates.

spinning up beer money - lmao dont make me laugh - the guy has a staked investment fund of circa £80k yet personally he cant even roll himself into a 'very soft' $5/$10 game in vegas.  The two stories dont really add up.

also from what i understand from this forum the investment manager is a full time betfair punter on a seperate account.  He doesnt work for a living.  Yet he cant afford to play a $5/$10 soft cash game in vegas and needs staking (max roll needed is $30k i would have said) but has the personal roll in his private account to make a sufficient income to live on and spunk £1k in a spin on a roulette wheel.  Maybe some people here are being taken for a ride.  Maybe not.   The numbers across several threads certainly dont add up.  I dont know many punters who can make a living on betfair with a bankroll less than it takes to sit in a 'very soft' $5/$10 game in vegas.  Maybe i am wrong but i am very happy advising my guys not to get involved in the 'scheme'.   

 
Gas

what does gas mean?  i aint down with the kidz!!!!

[ ] solid

What do you think it means. Review the context

just speak english.  Maybe my straight talking isnt what everyone on this forum is used to even if it is 100% factual

thank you james.  i know your user name from awop.  You know me as well.  We have played together live numerous times and spoke at dtd.  Glad to see there is a bit of balance to this thread and someone who is respected in the poker world outside of the blonde 'we are love each other' forum.  Like i have said all along i have no axe to grind i just like adding balance to the thread and why still havent any of my questions been answered?  Why has the bf P+L not been showed as a screen shot if the account is solely used for this fund?   what is there to hide?

Although I think it would be absolutely ridiculous that screenshots/records of EVERY single game traded were not distributed to stakers, we don't know what goes on privately between Blatch and his stakers. He could be using PM/MSN/FB etc etc etc to tell everybody about the games he's traded how much he's won etc.

I think Arbboy has put some absolutely imperative detailed information ITT and assuming they have zerp history I'm guessing he is doing it for the benefit of the forum and to help out his mates that are possibly interested in investing and not trying to give Blatch a bad name. A lot of people have reacted badly to Arbboy and I think he may have taken it the wrong way. Blonde seems to be more of a community than a forum and a guy coming into the "community" with less than 10 posts (the first 10 trying to sell something) and attacking a guy that has made everybody who invested money a profit no matter how small it is and more than that a close friend to many people is always going to end up in squabbling.

Instead of arguing both sides should take the positives out of the thread.

Arbboy- This is a community and if you give a few tips then everyone will worship the ground you work on. The words some of us "kidz" use are frankly ridiculous so don't worry about not knowing/understanding them, I think there is a post in the learning centre of PHA (Poker Hand Analysis) that actually lists all the words for your "dadz" :) I think you actually have good intentions and believe in time you could be a really liked and important member of this forum and hopefully you feel more "accepted" quickly. Also if you want a clever, quick learning, maths friendly apprentice that you'd like to take under your wing, holla! (shout :P)

Blatch- A lot of what Arbboy has said is just like a professional way to go on. I'm not saying you should do daily reports about what you're planning to bet on and how much you've made, but a graph in the thread would be really good. Not just so we know that you're not putting everybodies money on 27/8 :P but it is actually pretty interesting and although I havn't yet invested I would be really intrigued. I don't think it's necessary you post all the games you've traded on ITT, but sending them to the people that have invested would be advisable, not just for the peace of their mind, but so they can rail/sweat.

Lets all be friends, onwards and upwards guys.

for those of u who dont know betfair well he could easily post a profit and loss account of a whole months activity on one page on her with 2 clicks.  showing a simple one figure result of each game traded. no other detail needs to be shown.  it would take 2 seconds to do.

so now james keys has posted who is a highly respectable poker player regarding doubts about the scheme.  I could name the 2 guys who asked me about investing in this privately several months ago.  I wont but they are both massively well known in uk poker circles and on blonde and they both know who they are and i gtd everyone on this thread will know both of them.  why cant the simple questions i have raised be answered?  All u get is the gang of blatch's boyz answering and sticking up for him without given any solid answers to the questions i have asked.  They are really simple to answer ifyou know the game inside out like i am sure the investment manager does if his claims are true. Maybe asking these questions exposes talents that arent quite as good as they have kidded the poker community into investing 'their beer money'  £80k certainly isnt beer money to this investment manager who needs staking to play a 'very soft' $5/$10 cash game.  Maybe you should ask yourself a few questions.  I am happy at any point to show anyone my bf account at dtd with full P+L points balance to back up who i am.  People who know me on this forum already wouldnt even need to see it.  I have nothing to hide.  I just dont understand why so many questions i ask cant be answered.

your really getting on my tits now

lol @ investment manager

he is an investment manager isnt he?  he is managing an £80k circa roll which from other threads (ie he cant afford to sit in a soft $5/$10 cash game) implies this investment fund would be 3 or 4 times bigger than his own personal roll.

sorry an unpaid 'investment manager' he goes to all this trouble just to look after his friends.  He doesnt expect anything for his services.  He crushes one of the toughest online football betting markets in the world with the handicap of having 5% commisson when most have 2% with his skills and doesnt want to charge anyone a penny for the pleasure.  He doesnt post any real bf P+L's which could easily be scanned onto this forum in a couple of clicks.  Yet he is so talented in his 30's he cant afford to stake himself into a 'very soft' $5/$10 cash game in vegas.  Maybe i am old school or maybe a lot of u have been taken for a ride.

sorry james i just assumed everyone on here would know it was you.  u seemed happy enough on awop to tell people under the same user name it was you.  Sorry if i have 'exposed' you in public.

lol was about to say the same thing.

You've made your point I think. For someone with no axe to grind you're up late still arguing the toss

i am watching the nba finals on espn.  My fav sport as anyone who knows me will tell u.  Why cant someone answer the question about how a pro punter cant afford to stake himself into a 'very soft' 5/10 game in vegas?  No answers to any of my pretty logical questions.  I dont know many pro punters who operate with a bank that cant afford to comfortably play a game of that size.  If your gang answers the question just one time i will stop bringing it up.  Just like the man hasnt answered any of my other questions i have asked him.  They are really simple to answer.  Most people who know the football markets have the peoples numbers on their phone.  I am pretty sure this investment manager couldnt even tell me their names.  Never mind know them to know which way they will be moving the market.

james i dont need anyone in my corner.  My betfair balance/account/points balance does my talking.  Its a big price u see me begging for staking on here with stories which dont add up.  I will await answers to my questions but i dont think they will be forthcoming as certain people dont like being exposed.

There's a lot of supposition in your arguments, a lot of 2+2=10. Particulary with regard to Blatch's personal finances.

The screenshot thing is one I don't understand. If you don't trust people and need to ask for screenshots, don't give them 5 figure sums in the first place. Even if you don't and you do, a screenshot won't stop you getting grimmed.

As for missing the South Korea trade, I don't have the skills to critically assess your claim that not trading on this match means that Blatch knows nothing about trading on football games. From a semi lay persons point of view though, your arguments seem full of supposition and do not have me convinced.

You say the thread needs balance. The apperance halfway through the premier season when it seemed he was some sort of God who every week rang a bell and won 5 grand has long since gone. He's hit a bit of variance, to the point where people are questioning whether or not he's "still got it"
Making the same point 11 times is perhaps enough balance for now?

If I were a gambling man I'd wager that he had some run good, now some run bad, but is a profitable trader overall, both in terms of EV and actual results.
You can talk a little more about the South Korea gate scandal and how this proves that he's either been a lucky guesser or a liar all this time, but I'm unlikely to be convinced.

I don't have any money in Blatch for what it's worth. Until you started posting on this thread I half wanted him to either spunk the whole lot or pull off some sort of grim. Now I want him to prosper, such is the whim of the spectator.

Welcome to the forum arbboy.

 ;popcorn;

tank - how many pro punters do u know?  I assume not many without sounding harsh.  I dont know one person who punts for a living soley on betfair like this investment manager does who couldnt comfortably afford to play a 'very soft' 5/10 cash game. 

Perhaps if you opened your mind to the possibility that "being staked" and "begging" are not always synonymous it might open up about 16 or 17 explanations.

I'm not going to help you speculate though because Blatch's personal finances are really none of my buisness.

i have no qualms about admitting i was a big arber back in the day when it was easy and the returns from arbing were insane given zero risk and the relative ease of getting on compared to 2010.  My poker name came from that years ago.  I have no reason to change my name now but anyone who knows about the game like you obviously do chompy (not sure if you are g wheldon from the rfo) knows arbing to decent money now online and/or in the shops is virtually impossible nowadays.  Either way arbers on bf are always position takers on the machine and rack up massive bf points and certainly never incur the premium charge whenever they win or lose on bf. 

I know enough professional gamblers to spot the general trend that the best sports betters tend to be nitty and the best poker players tend to be degenerate animals.

Both make good money, but the latter have better nights out

Seriously arbboy, for some1 with no agenda yr like this huge spammer just going on and on over the same points.

Just yawn.

ok tank u avoided my question.  is it a disease on blonde to avoid answering questions?  so u know many pro punters.  How many couldnt comfortably afford to sit in a 'very soft' $5/$10 cash game?  that was the question i asked.

Poker roll, pro punter roll- different.

I refer you to my previous response. The one about staking and begging not always being synonymous.

This is discourse this is. I am not indicted, you are not a grand jury, and even if I was and you were, I could plead the 5th ammendment.

This isn't even America dude so wtf

if u were a professional investor of any kind why would u go to the bank (ie staker) and give him a big chunk of ur profit in interest if u were rolled to play the game comfortably which any genuine pro punter on betfair would be?  simple answer is you wouldnt. 

Simple answers are good, especially for simple people.

More complicated answers would include

- for the craic
- motivational factors
- psychological temporal nit factors (don't want to be down on that particular day/week/month)
- money being tied up in assets, or some sort of arb thing
- not having cash on you
- building relationships
- etc etc

arra there's loads of people "backed" or staked. Just cos the game is soft doesn't mean you can't lose. Neil is obv selling some to even out the variance. Have you NEVER EVER had a losing trade? Or a prolonged period time where you've lost money. Seems to me there's more this then meets the eye. Have you met Neil before?

Yr argument is so so flawed. Do you actually play much live poker at all?

A great deal of the poker community is staked, including some that don't even need to be staked, they just feel more comfortable that way.

It's called being a roll nit, just been cautious with your own money while often making money for friends.

I mean you sold your betfair package at a loss, why didn't you just ask one of your many many influential friends to take it off you for hardly any loss?

Seriously mate you talk a great deal of sense in regards to football trading, but a lot of the other stuff spewing from your posts is just that, spews.

lmao - you have to be taking the pi s s here surely.  The guy is a full time pro punter.  

More complicated answers would include

- for the craic - you ask for staking for the 'craic'?  please talk me through that one
- motivational factors - how does being staked motivate u when u give 40/50% of ur profilts to someone else when u could easily roll urself into the game urself and keep 100% providing u have the funds
- psychological temporal nit factors (don't want to be down on that particular day/week/month) - never met a long term successful punter who worries about this
- money being tied up in assets, or some sort of arb thing - a pro punter only has one tool of his trade (cash) very rare for this to happen although in exceptional circumstances it can - dont really think this is the case going to vegas for the summer
- not having cash on you - why would a pro punter go to vegas without a suitable amount of cash to play a 'very soft' cash game?
- building relationships - now u really are taking the pis s
- etc etc

Mark this is obv something personal- u are making assumptions on someone elses life/finances. It's obv personal. Quite frankly you're reasoned argument has just turned into a personal attack and you're starting to look quite silly

Wow just realised arrboy has posted like 48 posts mostly in a day. Good luck buddy, just another 252 odd and u can go on the staking board and see if you can get some staking yourself!

He's good at putting ppl on tilt from his chat, dunno about his play tho...

how am i looking silly?  i am 100% self rolled and self made from zero.  I dont claim to be a pro punter on betfair then state i need staking for virtually anything that moves into games which u could comfortably play with a £25k roll.  I am taking a stab in the dark here but i know more professional sports bettors on bf than anyone on here and i know none of them have a liquid cash roll of less than £25k,  therefore everyone i know (whos primary income like the investment manager is on betfair which he stated) could easily play the game without staking.  if its so soft why do you want to give away your action if u gamble for a living and the game is easily within ur roll?  it really doesnt make any sense unless its not within ur roll and u will be pushing urself to play the game.  surely its the sorta spot u dream of finding.

This guy doesn't seem to think too much of you?

http://punterzpoker.blogspot.com/2009/01/arbboy-cheat.html

lol

another fan of yours:

Talking of retards lets have a couple of hand histories involving everyone favourite idiot, Ardonkey...

***** Betfair Poker Hand History for Game 641716953 *****
NL Texas Hold'em $330 Buy-in + $10 Entry Fee, Level:4 Blinds(50/100-(no ante)) - Tuesday, January 26, 22:45:57 GMT 2010
$330+$10 Turbo NL Hold'em #3759824
Table 1 6-max (Real Money)
Seat 6 is the button
Total number of active players : 4
Seat 1: YSOSERIOUS ( 700 )
Seat 2: fossilman ( 1,712.50 )
Seat 4: Hops ( 5,407.50 )
Seat 6: arbboy ( 1,180 )
Tourney Level:4 Blinds(50/100-(no ante))
YSOSERIOUS posts small blind [50]
fossilman posts big blind [100]
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to YSOSERIOUS [ 7h, 5d ]
Hops folds
arbboy raises to [262.50]
YSOSERIOUS folds
fossilman raises to [720]
arbboy calls [457.50]
** Dealing Flop ** [ Jc, 6d, 5h ]
fossilman checks
arbboy checks
** Dealing Turn ** [ 9h ]
fossilman checks
arbboy checks
** Dealing River ** [ Qc ]
fossilman goes all-in
fossilman bets [992.50]
arbboy calls [460]
arbboy goes all-in
Returning uncalled bet [532.50] to fossilman
** Showdown **
fossilman shows [ Qh, Kh ] a pair of Queens
arbboy shows [ Tc, 8c ] a straight, Queen to Eight
** Hand Conclusion **
arbboy wins 2,410 from main pot with a straight, Queen to Eight
************ Game 641716953 ends ************


***** Betfair Poker Hand History for Game 642017654 *****
NL Texas Hold'em $100 Buy-in + $5 Entry Fee, Level:1 Blinds(10/20-(no ante)) - Wednesday, January 27, 15:35:25 GMT 2010
$100+$5 NL Hold'em #3764551
Table 1 2-max (Real Money)
Seat 2 is the button
Total number of active players : 2
Seat 1: arbboy ( 1,360 )
Seat 2: MrKangaroo ( 1,640 )
Tourney Level:1 Blinds(10/20-(no ante))
MrKangaroo posts small blind [10]
arbboy posts big blind [20]
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to MrKangaroo [ 9d, Qs ]
MrKangaroo raises to [40]
arbboy raises to [120]
MrKangaroo calls [80]
** Dealing Flop ** [ Tc, Ac, As ]
arbboy checks
MrKangaroo checks
** Dealing Turn ** [ Jh ]
arbboy checks
MrKangaroo checks
** Dealing River ** [ 4s ]
arbboy checks
MrKangaroo checks
** Showdown **
arbboy shows [ Th, 3c ] two pair, Aces and Tens
MrKangaroo mucks [ 9d, Qs ]
** Hand Conclusion **
arbboy wins 240 from main pot with two pair, Aces and Tens
************ Game 642017654 ends ************


***** Betfair Poker Hand History for Game 642020314 *****
NL Texas Hold'em $100 Buy-in + $5 Entry Fee, Level:2 Blinds(15/30-(no ante)) - Wednesday, January 27, 15:41:06 GMT 2010
$100+$5 NL Hold'em #3764551
Table 1 2-max (Real Money)
Seat 2 is the button
Total number of active players : 2
Seat 1: arbboy ( 1,730 )
Seat 2: MrKangaroo ( 1,270 )
Tourney Level:2 Blinds(15/30-(no ante))
MrKangaroo posts small blind [15]
arbboy posts big blind [30]
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to MrKangaroo [ 6d, 6h ]
MrKangaroo raises to [90]
arbboy goes all-in
arbboy raises to [1,730]
MrKangaroo folds
Returning uncalled bet [1,640] to arbboy
arbboy shows [ Kh, 7s ]
** Hand Conclusion **
arbboy wins 180 from main pot
************ Game 642020314 ends ************

If you don't understand 'for the craic' in the context of a holiday in Vegas. then I don't know where to start with you.

You are obviously wired in a very poundshillingpence centric way and happy days more power to you.

The problem is that you seem to be projecting your priorities and world view, how you're wired, onto everyone else. Assuming that they operate the way you operate.

It leads you to a lot of conclusions (and you seem very sure about them) but they are are based on a scant amount of dodgy evidence may well be wrong. (ie Blatch is busto, Blatch can't trade, Blatch is a liar, etc)

(1) Because you keep going and on and on, droaning endlessley over the same tired old points. Let blatch reply before you bitch for england.

(2) Wow you really love yrslf don't you.

(3) Like you said in a prev post, prob due to having cash tied up in assets elsewhere, and really how on earth is this yr business?

Think I shut him up.

weeeeeeeeeeeee

Skolsuper, voice of reason. Arbboy I appreciate your views, just don't go OTT or it detracts from the pertinent points you have made. IDK if they happen on blonde, but I'm sure there'd be interest in you sharing your expertise in a 2p2 style "Well".

Complete derail: I got money on Germany @ 29/2 on strength of the Deloitte analysis, when should I be looking to lay it off?

That blonde disease must be catching.

As for staking, If it's good enough for Ben Grundy ......


Sandy

Arbboy makes a very good argument and I for one agree entirely with everything he says.

LOL

I've played a lot of SNGs with arbboy (I no longer play them) on betfair and rated him as a bad reg that grinded out the leaderboards.  I'm sure he trades a lot better than his SNG skills!

Anyway, arbboy is making lots of good points.  Blatch, in hindsight would you agree the Korea game would have been better trade on?  Did you think the England game was better before the matches?  I don't doubt the validity of the trades you've posted (and frankly asking for screenshots brings into question Blatchs integrity and i'm fairly certain he's a stand up guy who isn't looking to bullshit some results) but do you think the results since the new year are simply down to poor luck or do you think you've made some judgemental errors?

I'm sure if arbboy had come on and posted what you have there Rupert, that Blatch would have answered pretty much immediately.

However, I'm sure the attempted character assassination and ridiculous repetition in arbboy's post obviously show an agenda that goes beyond that of someone who is 'concerned' for some people who have invested a few hundred pounds. 

I don't think a character assassination is going to bother Blatch.

He's a mature man in his 30's after all.

solid

I have been an avid viewer of this thread and believe that Arboy has really put a huge bad karma hit on it.

You should all get behind blatch, and keep the good karma rolling

Blatch has told people why he didnt trade korea - not sure why they keep going on about it

Bring the love back to this thread and move on.............................................

yea lots of love people

dig deep blatchness

Very much this. I used to like this thread and now it's gone all negative.

Blatch is da nuts.

Jog on arbboy..

agreed Tc 3c

Most people know Blatch so he isn't going to be bothered by one stalker who watches in the distance while he has the odd spin at roulette. The personal attacks ARE out of line though.

However, I don't agree that asking for screenshots is questioning his integrity. My money wouldn't be involved if I was doubting his integrity and I'm sure Blatch wouldn't stake me if he questioned mine etc etc etc.

However, I can't think of a staking agreement where stakers don't have access to viewing results/progess through an official source or have access to the stakee's account/s. Blatch can post profit/loss sheets or just pm them individually to stakers.

No-one will have any information about how he's working his magic, but it is basically the correct thing to do and a good way to silence things when the thread gets like it's gotten in the last few days.

Very good.

I like blatch we played live together in a huge tourney and he is a wonderful human being

I also like blatch! We share the same birthday but im glad im still in my 20's!

I would like to buy him a present. Which does he prefer curlywurlies or wham bars?

wtf is all this ranting. Can't be bothered reading it, but any way to make this thread read only to everyone but Blatch? I'm sure no one cares about comments from anyone else....

This. 

Hopkin cliffnote special

Blatch gambles good
Blatch gets staked roll
Blatch runs good
Blatch runs bad
Blatch misses one game
Trading police arive in the shape of arbboy
Some people want P+L
Trading police accuse Blatch of being too poor to play $5/$10
Blatch goes down for 5 years
Hopkin thanks the day he put his money in the fruit machine

Lololololol

Just cought up on the thread, haven't read in for a month.

The last 10 pages have been the best ever!!!

Arbboy you are my hero lol

still awaiting answers to the simpliest bunch of questions ever asked.  I am expecting something more detailed and professional than 'i went to leics races' 'money was tied up in the england game' and 'you are not welcome on this thread'

someone point arrbo into the direction of the flushy thread, when he finds out that a guy who has won 2 wcoops is getting staked for 1.5k events he might actually blow up.

hahahaha

Maybe you should show him how it's done, here's a simple question for you... do you have aspergers syndrome?

I am expecting something more detailed and professional than "no"

a lot more variance in 3000 runner mtts than sitting in a 'very soft' $5/$10 cashgame i would imagine.

i dont have £80k of other peoples money when my own bankroll cant finanace a very soft 5/10 cash game.  Therefore i dont have to answer questions.  Its a benefit of not being staked that you dont have to answer to people.

hahaha

no one tell him that flushy plays dice/balls out of control/sports bets of he might just assplode

FYP

Really simple to answer the questions i have asked.  If he has nothing to hide just answer them.  I am sure all his investors would like to know the answers to the questions i have raised.  Maybe being exposed to his loyal gang of poker followers by someone who actually knows the sports game has stunned him into silence.

lol what is the relevance of you knowing a couple of poker players?

Arbboy, with respect, that's enough please. You've made your point repeatedly and have been given rein to do so. Now all you are doing is winding people up. Let blatch respond, if he wishes to, though I dare say he is likely if he feels harangued by someone resembling a broken record. Thanks

Arbboy why are you so angry? Were you picked on at school, everyone is happy with what's been going on now for the last 8 months apart from you, stop name dropping and going on and on and on, if people arnt happy they can easy drop out

Plus I would love to see a heads up game with you and Mr B

I can only speak for myself obv but:

I sold some small slices this year, yet I could afford not to.  Why did I do it?  Dunno really, but it wasn't  $$ orientated, some of it was for shits and giggles and give people a funking slice of action, as I in turn have taken a few slices of others.

what I expect of Blatch:

Update the outcome of each game
No running positions in game
Keep a decent record of my $$
Send it to me afterwards

Err.... that's it ~ and that is probably pretty much the same for most.  I am happy for him to spin it up as risk-loving/risk-averse as he sees fit.

What I don't expect of Blatch:

To offer a professional investment service.
To put his life on hold to trade on my behalf with no charge.  
To consult with anyone else about anticipated market moves before getting on - I am backing his opinion and if he wants to swim against the tide of general 'expert' consensus, fine by me.

IIRC at the start, the gig was that Blatch was experimenting in this field, his end was that he got a boil-in-the-bag BR from everyone, and may end up with a 2% bf account at the end of it.  There wasn't any hard sell or guarantees.  Our end was that we had zero effort as sleeping investors, no charges, mgmt fees or anything else - up to us if we want to leave "a drink"

That seemed a pretty decent deal to me, so I shipped $$.  If others decided it wasn't a good spot, I imagine they chose not to.

What Simon said.




But also





'very soft' $5/$10 cashgame'


'very soft' $5/$10 cashgame'


'very soft' $5/$10 cashgame'


'very soft' $5/$10 cashgame'


'very soft' $5/$10 cashgame'


'very soft' $5/$10 cashgame'


'very soft' $5/$10 cashgame'


'very soft' $5/$10 cashgame'


'very soft' $5/$10 cashgame'


'very soft' $5/$10 cashgame'


'very soft' $5/$10 cashgame'


'very soft' $5/$10 cashgame'


'very soft' $5/$10 cashgame'




Why is that all you say arbboy? You come across quite impressively poorly.

Thirdpartyinfluencaments

just answer the questions.  Its really simple.  I am not asking anything out of order or offensive.  Surely everyone who has invested in this would like to know the answers?  Numerous people on here have said i have made several very valid points so i just dont understand why there hasnt been a response to these if there is nothing to hide.  I will leave it at that because its obvious the blonde clique are getting upset.  i dont expect a response as the kid who msn me regarding disappointment at his returns and delayed payment yday has already msn me and said blatch isnt going to respond to any of my legit questions so there seems little point going on.  Obviously balance and non offensive free speech isnt welcome on this forum

JAMES 'yeah name dropping' Keys told you to shut up and you didn't (twice, and it was v good advice) , I don't believe you will now. You probably need to post again, what was that about again oh yeah  'A VERY SOFT 5/10 CASH GAME'.....


Valid points can be made, but then diluted by so much ungrammatical and horribly laid out repetitive drivel that it just looks like you have an axe to grind.

Can somebody link the cash game staking thread, I've heard the games are soft so I'd like to invest.

Is that to the VERY SOFT 5/10 CASH GAME?


would it be that VERY SOFT 5/10 CASH GAME?

or some other VERY SOFT 5/10 CASH GAME?

but i dont even play 5//10  :dontask:

I don't even need to see the thread to know I want in. Where do I send $$$'s?

Wouldn't mind taking a % of the roulette spin too pls.

You've already been asked to give it a rest. 

Blatch does not have to respond to your posts.  He keeps in touch with his stakers via PM, text, etc., - seriously, what has it got to do with you?  You're not that important despite the fact you know some poker players and post private MSN conversations on here against the wishes of the other party.

Let's get back to the 5/10 game. ITS VERY SOFT.




REPETITION FTW

Is that all 100% true?

must resist urge to keep typing the same thing..............



soft 5/10 cash games lolz

Hey arbboy

There's no clique in operation here

You've also had repeated opportunities on this thread to have free speech

You've been asked to stop, because as you can see you are winding people up. Now people are winding you up back. That's only going to lead to trouble. Which the mods wish to avoid.

I am also informed that the subsequent conversations you claim to have had with your msn pal in fact you haven't had. So lets not over-egg it please

Cool it, please.




Everyone else, thread back on track please. thanks

I couldn't even beat the 1/2 game FMEL.

Arbboy,you obviously know your stuff but as your very keen to get answers I thought I'll shoot you a couple of questions;Why do you think Blatch should answer to you ? I am not an investor in this and thus I wouldn't expect Blatch to owe me any kind of explanation for what he does.Secondly why do you care if people on here knock it in investing in Blatch,everyone had the chance to get out with profit at the end of the season so anybody who's in now is in because they want to be so why do you care ?

op sais blatch shows people the balance at dtd on request. /argument?

I doubt that arbboy does know his stuff to be honest. His results might be ok and he knows one way to trade but his logical inferences as to Blatch's trading might be utter bollox.

He's posted so much crap about conclusions drawn from a guy gwtting staked in a 5/10 cash game and free speech rant when the mods have let him post like a troll that I have every reason to suspect he's talking as much bollox as to what can be inferred from a guy failing to trade on a South Korea/Greece game where the price shifted a lot.

Aftertime much?  

Sigh why did I get involved this is so obv a joint account FML

it's not.

Anyone who reads betfair forum knows Arbboy loves to go on and on and on and on and on :)

Bring on Friday.............not sure who's going to more nervous Blatch or Green :D

OMG is it him!!!

cant be i heard betfair and him had a fallout, and he aint name dropped dn yet

No didnt mean a reference to Ariston. Just meant Arbboy likes to continue "discussions" as seen on betfair

phew

Though I'm getting to dislike arrboy just as much as I do Ariston

  maybe he went to the brent horner academy of aftertiming

I havent replied till now because I went out last night and was in a pretty bad mood.  Ive also had a few things to do this morning and wanted to re read a few messages before I posted.  I dont feel that I have to reply but seeing as this is now over 13 pages of crap written its probably best that I do.  Ill try to answer as many questions that I can and hopefully put a finish on this so we can move on a bit.

Firstly Mark, and im assuming your Mark Wilson, I really dont know why you have this passionate hate for me.  Im not sure if you remember but around a year ago at DTD you had been drinking a bit and decided to sit at a cash game where I was playing whilst waiting for George to finish in the comp.  You simply sat down and played 6 hands in an hour and instead of playing you simply threw abuse at me for an hour.  I sat there and took assuming you were drunk and not really sure who you were.  The comments from you such as "I know who you are but im not telling you who I am" etc I found a bit weird.  It got to the point where 2 people and the dealer complained about the abuse and eventually 2 left because of it and then the game broke.  IIRC I had never spoken to you before nor even been at the same table.  So I can only assume that you hate me because your not known as "The Betfair Guy", im not claiming I am either but the sucess of this has to be the reason. 

As for some of your questions and other points you make, I think they have all been covered by other investors but if not ill try to cover most of them from memory.

I have never claimed to have any "information sources".  It is simply myself pricing up games and assuming / guessing / thinking which way the markets will move.  I apologise to my investors if they were led to believe different but I think this is quite clear on the OP and to all the investors that came on board.  I do however have places I look for reseeach / information / stats on the Internet and I have a spreadsheet of previous movements which I consult when certain factors are involved.

This South Korea vs Greece game, seems to be quite a big point for you.  It seems as if I have made a big mistake in missing this game, and yes, we could have made a big profit on this game.  I apologise to my investors if they were under the impression that I would be working on this trading 24/7 and treating it as my main job.  I also apologise if they thought I would be trading every single game, or if they thought I would be sacrificing my social life to do this.  As Simon Galloway points out on page 101, 2 posts off the bottom, he is quite clear as to what he expected and although I am annoyed I didnt see this one Im not going to apologise too much for it.  As already stated the whole of Saturday was going to be out for me, but I thought I would try to do the England game as previously it had worked well for me and more importantly the timing of the game wouldnt interfere at all with the rest of the day.

You also state that poker players have asked you about this.  I have no problem with you giving your advice but why dont you keep it to those that ask?  If you want to say im a joke and dont know what im doing to individuals that ask you directly then by all means tell them that, after all it is your opinion and you are entitled to it.

You keep saying you have no axe to grind, but to myself and others it seems you clear do, from the events at DTD to over 14 pages of this now.

Your next point says you went to bet that I dont have a 2% commision account on page 91.  I have never claimed to have a 2% account and infact I hope I was quite open that this would be a new account and therefore the commision would have to start on 5%.  Again if I havent made this clear to anyone then I apologise.  Within the same point you claim I need staking for this.  The quite simple fact is that I dont.  This was however an experiment at the start of the season and again I hope I highlighted this quite well.  I wasnt sure if it was going to a sucess or not but I explained what I was hoping to do.  I didnt beg for staking nor did I force anyone to join.  The blonde forum has a great spirit about it and I believe investors saw an opputunity to hopefully make a few quid whilst having something to follow for the football season.  I hope I nevr portrayed this as a get rich quick scheme as this was never likely, but again if I did to anyone then I apologise.

For some weird reason you seem to think I have to know people to be good at this.  Your right, I probably dont know the top 5 players but I certainly know the number 1, and although I dont speak to him apart from when I see him maybe 2 or 3 times a year I dont see what this proves.   Why do I need to these players to make a profit?  Dont get me wrong it would help but its not a definate need.

Next point - Evilpie you are a %£$&, you well know im not in my 30's, simply my late 20's who had a tough paper round.

I think the next point you move onto was the roulette.  Its probably best that you dont listen to rumour like this but on this instance you are half correct.  Yes I did have a little play on the roulette and yes it was on the 28/29 section but it was £!k a spin and nor was it £50 notes.  I chucked over a bag of £20 notes that I had won at the cash game that night at DTD and spent just over half of it on around 4 or 5 spins.  I really dont see what I do with my cash is anyone business.

Next point - Staking.  I think this one has annoyed a few people as some of the greatest players in the World are staked, and each have their own reasons.  On some of the bigger events I like to sell a few % and for the cash game in Vegas I have sold half of my action.  There are many a reason why people get staked and normally lack of funds isnt one of them.  I could be mistaken but I believe Flushy is staked, Dubai is staked and even some of the Full Tilt red pros are staked full time.  I dont see staking as a weakness at all and so long as people are happy to stake me for certain events then ill keep offering it.  I still look at poker a sbeing a hobby.  A hobby that has produced me some good results and some very profitable ones.  I dont rely on poker for an income and maybe this is one of the reasons why I have had a few results.

Then we have the whole MSN convo with Iwillwinlots.  Personally for you to state the convo once he has asked you specificaly not to was pretty wrong.  I have had a few PM's with him and although he knows im annoyed with the situation, it doesnt change anything.  He has asked to cash out and I have made him aware of the situation, he will get his money as soon as it arrives.  Although sadly he didnt make as much money as some, he has still made money.  The return isnt huge but £150 profit on a £700 for a few months is still more than reasonable and certainly alot more than what he would receive in the bank.

I believe the next point was about having the money in your account.  Funnily enough I dont see this as an option. 

I do feel slightly annoyed that everyone was hucky dory on here for around 7 or 8 months but as soon as I have 3 losers on the trot then people suddenyl want to see screenshots.  No-one ever questioned anything while things were going well but know its all different.  As I stated in the opening thread I would be happy to provide statements or even open the account up to people whilst at DTD.  I believe I have done this for 3 people involved and also 2 different people have watched me trade out of a game at DTD including Colchester Kev.  I do find it a bit insulting that people know want to see things but as said before I will do it.  I certainly wont be posting anything up on here for everyone to see but will happily supply things for investors only to see.

Finally it now seems that you are making MSN convo's up to further make me look bad.  I really dont see why your doing this but you really shouldnt involve others into this.  Tighty has confirmed that the other convo's didnt happen so why put this?

Im hoping this covers everything as I doubt im going to make such a reply again.  This really has annoyed me which is probably what you set out to achieve.  Again I just like to point out a few key statements: -

I have never claimed to know anyone that moves markets
I have never claimed to have a 2% account
I dont charge for what im doing
Im only doing this from my own judgement and was an experiment at the start of the season
I do have some money myself invested in this
I stand to gain a lot of knowledge from doing this which will help in other areas
I stand to gain an account that has a reduced commision.

:D

tl;dr

Soviet, maybe me you and Blatch should hang out since we all look like old men?

FYP

That would be incred.

only met blatch and i can honestly say i thought he was older than me

we met at the blonde bash, your out of order...

appreciate the reply.  Didnt think it was coming.  not sure how 'tighty' can confirm what happened on my msn given that he isnt in my office but that doesnt really matter.  Everything i have stated on this thread is 100% factual from my end.  I will leave the forum now and let you will get on with your scheme and wish you all the best with it.  Everyone seems happy with it.  People stating i am full of shi t might want to read my posts on the betfair prem charge for example and realise not many people would know how that works if i was just a random geezer with some needle.

You obviously come from a different school to me regarding staking but each to their own.  When i run a business (you state you are a professional punter as betfair is your main source of income) i prefer to keep 100% of my profits rather than give them to others because i cant manage my roll properly. All my mates and I would find it embarrassing asking on a public forum for staking into a £300 and £150 fo if you were happy to spunk a monkey or a grand away on a spin of a roulette wheel and we do joke about some of these staking threads.  But, like i say, each to their own if you want to be a professional punter and give half your winnings to someone else when he think you have a decent edge thats your business not mine.   I have nothing against you at all - i dont even know you.  

The time at dtd was a pissed up wind up to needle you a bit when a couple of mates of mine were at dtd.  They are both punters/poker players on bf and at the time you were asking for staking for a £300 fo and a £150 fo on the bf forum.  One of them said who fancies going to needle that guy a bit about how skint he must be to need staking into a £300 and £150 event as, even you would admit if you remember, u were sitting at the cash table giving it the big one and trash talking people at the table most hands that night.  If you werent giving it the big one at the cash table i doubt it would never of happened.   It was a bit of fun between a few pissed up lads and you were the unsuspecting bystander.  I am sorry if that night offended you but i dont think i said anything massively offensive.  

Then this thread started and i was asked about it like i said from several people regarding whether to invest.  I have to admit i didnt realise you werent taking a cut but it did make me wonder why you were doing it given you werent making a fair chunk for yourself.  I am naturally negative about anyone seeking staking given my views above.  Therefore i recommended they didnt invest.  

tl;dr

so basically it was a personal attack from the start.

Any money on South Africa??

So yet another person on the net who stirs the hornets nest, claims he knows everything and finds out he can't read, doesn't understand and is just an arse.

Sandy

the DTD bit of drunken fun was but everything i have stated in this thread regarding this investment has no needle attached to it at all and the questions i asked were totally serious and exactly the questions i would have asked if i was involved financially in the scheme.  I am amazed more people havent asked what i have but, like i say, each to their own.  Everyone is happy.  Ok thats it for me.  

That isn't the case, and so therefore it's hard to believe anything else you've said.

It started out as a personal attack, it continued as such, and amongst it all you even made one or two valid points - but amongst the 99% that is just bollocks it was lost.  The fact you might know the industry inside out, might be the best poker player of all time and know all the other best players, can give the best advice in the world about football trading, and whatever else - is completely irrelevant to Blatch and this staking. 

You ask again why Blatch offered this staking in the football trading.  Again, read the first post on the thread, and then read the long and courteous reply he posted today.  More than likely you'll just ignore both and post something about the $5/$10 cash games in Vegas.  I believe they're quite soft?

well, if the previous 20 pages didn't succeed in showing you up as a tosser you certainly got there with this paragraph

Never met him but heard he's older than tikay.

Lol attempted character assassination followed by a sharp exit after a FAIL!

Door. Ass. Way out.

Either this guy is secretly jealous of Blatch or he secretly fancies him imo

 amongst it all you even made one or two valid points - but amongst the 99% that is just bollocks it was lost.
inv
please list anything i stated regarding football betting that is anything other than 100% factual please.  Everything i have stated regarding the investment scheme and staking are 100% factual correct.  There is no needle here at all.  If i had £10k plus invested in this (like some have) and i missed out on the biggest opportunity at the world cup i would be annoyed to say the least.

Actually just realised he is trying to get to 300 posts so he can put up a staking thread

yawn...

TAXI for arbboy

Either this guy is secretly jealous of Blatch or he secretly fancies him imo

did u get 'this guy' and 'blatch' the wrong way around?  He dreams about having a roll and a 2% account or maybe he just likes giving half his profits away to stakers rather than keeping them for himself.  Surely the investors here would love the scheme to have a 2% account free from the premium charge as well.  Would massively increase their returns.

Clearly likes the mature type.

I use to get excited when this thread jumped to the top of the list...

I think arrboy might of had a point can we discuss all this again....................... you lost me at 2%

ok guys I am going to propose a truce please, so we can get a thread back on track

arbboy, you've made your point and had it answered. Enough, please?

Those having a go at arbboy, you've also made your feelings clear. Back to Blatch's trades please?


thank you

Arbboy clearly knows his stuff but that didn't entitle him to act like he did on this thread.

Neither did missing one game warrant the intrusion into every detail of Blatch's life and somehow questioning his integrity.

I've never heard anyone say a bad word about the guy tbh,seems to be as genuine as they come.

All of arbboy's arguements were flawed and based totally on incorrect assumptions,most of which were detailed in the op.It was pretty clear from the start that this was an experimental enterprise and that obviously as he was not being paid to do it that he wouldn't be putting every waking hour into it and nor should he.

Arbboy you were asked for your professional opinion privately,you should have given that opinion privately to those who asked for it,to come on here and invade the mans thread trying to make him look stupid,dishonest and in general questioning his integrity and motives was well out of line.

And i'm not in the clique either,just wanted to help bring some balance to the thread,seeing as you strived so hard for it but failed.

Couldn't agree more, good post.

Seriously guys Arbboy makes some correct points. They are just made in the wrong tone.

It isnt possible to have a Betfair account that trades games into all green pre game and doesnt pay the Premium Charge, most of my trading business is done on there and the 20% is unavoidable if you are successful. As Arbboy states, you can only have a very successful Betfair account that doesnt pay the Premium charge if you have clear posistions that create commision over the long haul of many winners and many losers.

Given that is the case I think there is a question that the investors should be asking but I havent seen on this thread. What events, if any does Blatch trade using the bankroll he has accumulated for the football syndicate for his own beneift?


I know of a couple of people who have set up syndicates on other sports and been successful as Blatch is, their aim was to trade for the investors at a profit on the sport and use the bankroll available from the syndicate to trade many other events for themselves.


This scenario is the only one I can think of that would host the funds of a profitable pre game price trader that has the record that Blatch has yet not pay Premium charge. If Blatch was using the fund to trade events for himself then he would genrerate a level of commision on the account through a set of winnign and losing that would leave that account paying no Premium charge.


The amount of cash avialable for trading football matches would show a decent % return for a trader/gambler to make good money from and provide a good return for the investors as Blatch is doing. It needs to be asked if that is what is happening, it might be that the invetsors are happy if that is happening as long as they keep getting the benefit of Blatch's football trading too.

The whole thing is nearly done. Why would anyone ask questions now many many months after the start ? I don't think it needs to be asked if he is using the money for other stuff. If he was why would he open a specific account to use for the purpose with the offer that investors can get live access at DTD or screenshots ? Was anyone really stupid enough to invest before being happy to to including asking any questions they thought prudent beforehand ?

Commission rates can make a difference sure but it was clear at the outset it was a brand new account.

It's been a while since i saw a troll have so much effect.

Sandy

hi Sandy, you make some good points but the level of reply to some of Arbboy's sensible posts show that not everyone has a full working knowledge of how a BF account with a lot of cash in  works regarding charges and commision. As for opening a new account to trade the games that would have to be done too, there would be no need for Blatch to give access to his current personal BF account. That wouldnt be fair to him unless he used it as proof that his record was as good as he said and his record running the syndicate shows that he does have a good knowledege of the markets and can trade the correct way in a high % of games.

Bobby,

1st part :- It is for investors to seek this knowledge. Blatch posted this on the betting and sports board and i think it's fair to assume any investor has at least minimal knowledge of betfair, access to betfair or doesn't really care.

2nd Part :- It was done. New account was opened at least i read that in this thread. As for history, i don't think Blatch went for a hard sell and since no personal profit was sought so it was up to investors to establish any risk and act accordingly and imo not for Blatch to prove anything.

To get so much grief when he has made money for most (everyone ?) is insane. I think any charge he might levy next year just went up substantially.

Sandy

Ignore the haters

hi Sandy,

there is a chance that significant profit could be made  by using the fund to trade markets other than the footy games, I don't kow if that is the case but I dont think its an unfair question to ask given the account doesnt pay the Premium charge.

Point two, i agree with you again about the grief, it is unfair that a guy that can get results over a period of time gets stick but its in everyones best interests to know exactly how the fund is being used, if it is at all to benefit the trader.

If it is and the invetsors dont mind then it isnt a problem at all. I am sure if Batch is using the fund on other sports he is sensible enough to trade it carefully and without much exposure. I don't think for one minute anyones investment is at risk but if there is more to the fund it is in the possibilty that the trader has set up a syndicate and could use the funds to trade any other sports yet still deliver the amounts on football that his investors are very happy with and Blatch has certainly done that.

But that again leads to the Betfair account turning over those amounts and making a good profit not paying Premium charges, it cannot be done without paying these charges so I am simply looking for a way that could happen and trading the other events with the funds seems the most logical thing

Some one point out in the last 50 pages of this slowly becoming poor thread that Blatch doesn't explain that makes any of the previous 12 pages 1. worth reading and 2. not pointless....

ok I have removed everything after this post.

Apologies to those who made good points such as bobby1, but I ain't got the time to split stuff out individually.

No apologies to everyone else who ignored my previous post above and resorted to name calling, flaming, abuse and the rest..from all sides


(EDIT:  I'VE RECOVERED SOME OF THE 'CONSTRUCTIVE' POSTS THAT WERE MOVED WITH THE FLAMING/TROLLING POSTS)

Hi Bobby,

Blatch said in the opening post"It is very different to what I normally do on betfair so I want to keep it completely seperate from my main account and im wanting people on here to buy a part of the staking fund for this.  I wont charge anything for this as I will gain the knowledge and experience of the market movements which will help me in other areas.  Obviously there are going to be some risks invovled however I would say that it should be virtually impossible for people to lose there investment fully. 

What I want to do is trade the prices of the football games that are being shown live on TV.  The movemenst can be huge and it is very possible to lock in a good profit before the match starts.  I dont want to go into it too much as I dont want others doing what I will be doing and taking any edge away.  I will trade the prices before the match and at Kick Off I will even up the profit, or the loss, so that we win or lose the exact same amount of each of the results.  This way there wont be any huge wins or any huge losses.  I am looking to do this for one football season and then split the profits at the end of the season and then maybe start again."

I don't think the fact something else could be happening is relevant. There is no allegation that i can see that it is happening and even if it were that any losses have been attributed to it. Let us not forget that any investor can ask Blatch at DTD for access to the account. It appears that he is there often enough that it really is a non issue. Did Blatch say the account doesn't pay premium charge now ? I would expect it does/will but i'd also expect an investor to think likewise.

Sandy

'I don't think the fact something else could be happening is relevant'

What drugs are you taking Sandy? That is perhaps the most stupid thing I've ever read on blonde.

For the record I've no doubt Blatch isn't doing and hasn't done anything outside of the stake with the money. I've also no doubt it's in a separate account within which he's done none of his own trades.

However, it might be easiest, certainly for Blatch is he gives his password to someone both trusted on blonde and a member of the stake...my suggestions would be Kinboshi or Skolsuper to verify this and we could say goodbye to arrboy once and for all.

The ONE small gripe I would have if any, as Blatch has done an overall great job on this is that he's not been as responsive as I would have liked or would have been myself if in his shoes.

So he could have withdrawn the cash then obtained the actual cash from the bank and be sitting in his garden burning each note one at a time. In your opinion this is relevant ? If something is possible it's hardly relevant if there is no basis or substance to it.

Why does Blatch need to respond ? He has offered access to the account from the start to his investors. He has explained what he is doing. The questions were raised by a new id to the forum who isn't an investor and in almost all forums would be known as a troll albeit more successful than most.

If an investor has a question then ask Blatch. Even Fergus et al didn't get this much hassle.

Sandy

I have to say, having read all the drivel and trolling that arrboy produced Im inclined to agree with Cos on this. I have tried to post as little as possible on this thread as I am not involved in the stake.

However that also gives me an outsiders view to all this too, which I think can be helpful.

If I was in Blatchs' shoes, id be pretty pissed off that during the good times, all he had was whooping and hollering, and then he loses a few games and for some reason there is doubt. I mean his system seemed pretty solid (pun intended), but it strikes me that at the end of a season the markets might behave slightly differently (for a myriad of reasons). It also strikes me that the world cup being what it is, in both attracting more casual punters, and probably therefore greater volume, the markets may also react differently. As for Blatch missing 1 key game, well the focus on that is just a joke, and if any staker is pissed off about it, because a 3rd party chirps up, then go back and look at the first 60 pages of the thread!

It also strikes me that the sums involved caused a little stir. When it was £30-40 a game it was still an experiment, when it was 300-400 it was magic times, when it was 2-3k people could start dreaming. However, people must accept that the swings both up and down are a factor of the bank roll size. Losing 3k, is just a factor of having won so much over the season. The size of the betting and the relevance that then had against peoples lives did also seem to be an catalyst to the interst in the conspiracy.

Back on track, it does strike me that this could be resolved really easily. Blatch just fires up his lappy at dtd, or i think he and george both live nearby, if george is happy he can do it for convenience. Show the account, the trusted person then PM's the stakers - or even better then posts on  the thread (so i know obv). Again I am inclined to agree with Cos re Blatch. He was good enough to stake me, and i found no reason to distrust him at all, but sometimes his urgency and timing wasn't the same as mine. Well that is probably just the way he his. I think if you re-read the OP, the sentiment of the stake is very clear. I guess some people might have expected something to change when the bankroll increased, but i think from the tone of all his posts, blatch sees it as a % return on the bet, not necessarily the gross sum. Im sure many of the backers see the gross sum!

Lets get this sorted and then we can ban arrboy and all get on with the love fest that was the staking thread.

Here is to the upswing returning

(blatch if you disagree with anything ive said im sorry, this is all very much my opinion as viewed from the outside)

OK, who's hacked Guy's account and posted something sensible with it?  Please return it to its rightful owner.

I cannot overstate how disappointed I am that this thread title doesn't contain the phrase "soft $5/$10 game in Vegas"

sigh - sometimes my job involes mediatation and arbitration - got carried away, sorry - ill return to being a cock now!  ;D

I think the fact people started jumping on the bandwaggon with significant amounts skewed the figures a bit. £3240 was the initial bank and now it appears more than one person has invested plenty more than this.

The fact remains that anyone who has invested must have had a fair bit of trust in Blatch, but now some random internet troll has stirred it up they don't. WTF ? If there were signs of impropriety then why not pull out or ask Blatch ? There were no signs. If someone sees a better way or an opportunity that doesn't mean Blatch is at it. If it does then i hope you never sit on a jury.

Sandy

Human nature kid, it's only natural people cast doubt when things are going bad. Who the fks gonna question anything when winning. Doesn't mean they shouldn't, they just wont.

Anyway, I've sent Blatch a text so I'm expecting he'll post up soon and clear this whole thing up.

Clear what up ?

Sandy

tighty -i said i wasnt going to reply again but this is really annoying.  Nothing that was said that you have been deleted had any abuse in it from my end.  It just seems that this forum you face either fits or it doesnt whatever you post.  I think you will find if you actually knew anything about the subject that the parts you have deleted are probably the monst important to date and actually involve the only 4 people on here who have proved to actually know anything about betfair (bobby dubai chompy and me)  The only abuse came from the forum clique who admit to knowing nothing about the subject.  In addition to this i was PM'ed last night by a respected forum member who privately viewed similar concerns to me.  MAybe as you can confirm whether i have msn someone that you can confirm this as well.  It seems there are people out there who have the same concerns but dont wish on this cliquely forum to put them on the public domain for fear of not being loved by the masses here which is really quite sad if you ask me.  As for being a troll or whatever that means it seems from the PM message that i have made numerous very valid points including the main one of why the investment manager cant simply post a weekly/monthly screenshot of the betfair P+L if he has nothing to hide on the forum.  He states already all the info his posts contain regarding a result (ie the match and the profit or loss and nothing else)  nothing would be giving away that isnt already posted by him on the forum.  His 'trading secrets' wouldnt be exposed.  That is unless the £80k fund is being used to fund his own lack of bankroll.  IF its all above board (like the guy who PM'd me last night said and understands how betfair works) why doesnt he screenshot the weekly/monthly P+L so investors can see easily what the results are?  I dont expect an answer but its not just me who thinks this.

There's been a lot of behind the scenes concerns and I know various people have been discussing the issue.
 Blatch's lack of presence isn't ideal bu hopefully he can come online and post these P+L shots asap

Hey. There was a lot of abuse in your direction last night, which we removed. This is actually in your favour. By the same token you were asked not to keep responding, by me. Yet you kept doing so and it thus became impossible to defuse the situation.

Yes, there were a number of good posts (bobby1 etc) amongst the abuse and as you will see I think they've been put back up

Please give it a rest with the clique stuff too. You've had every opportunity you wanted to raise concerns on here. You've done so. After a point though once you've made the same point about 50 times, even after Blatch posted a reply it moves from simple posting into trolling, I think.

In all this I am only concerned with moderating the forum. I'm not involved in the stake, I'm not active on Betfair and have never claimed to be, and the mods don't mod disputes between staker/stakee.


So, to summarise, debate is fine. Flaming, abuse, and ignoring mod requests to back off are not.

Cheers

So we have people with enough trust in a guy to make a medium term investment but not quite brave enough to ask the guy a question ? They could even email,pm text or actually do it in person rather than face the wrath of the forumites.

Seriously, you need to get a grip.

What exactly do you think should be clarified ?

Sandy

Agree up to that bit.

dont see what harm a few screenshots pm'd to investors could do.

Has Blatch refused an investor a screenshot ?

Sandy

trigg what difference would posting the screenshot of the P+L after every match/week/month do on the forum.  He posts something like this after every game anyway.

Greece +12000
Draw+12000
Korea +12000

Showing a screen shot of the betfair P+L would give exactly the same information (the game and the win/loss).  Nothing more nothing less.  No 'sensitive data' would be shown.   So the argument of not posting it on the forum has no ground if there is nothing to hide.  It gets boring stating the same thing all the time.  Would be really amazing if the man could provide an answer to the above which everyone who has pm'd me has stated as well as me.

I am pretty sure if you stop banging on about it, he might consider it. Im also pretty certain that the more you go on, the less inclined he will be!

Seriously just leave it be for a couple of days. You have made some reasonable points in a rather confrontational manner and then repeated them in various different ways about 20 times. There is nothing to be gained by posting any more apart from to wind people up.

I agree that in some form showing a simple P/L from betfair is easily done and would kill this part of the arguement stone dead. I used to arb myself for beer money back in the golden days of arbing 2001ish so am well aware of how betfair comission works and have dabbled ever since when i saw an opportunity.

those days were good longy.  If only they still existed!!!  walk into a betting shop get £500 on a 6/1 shot and lay it at 9/2 instantly. 

They still exist if u go to the right places on the BAGS and know a certain big players card!

agreed but it isnt as easy getting a monkey on in a shop as it was 5 years ago.  You do well to get a pony on at the tracks you are talking about in a shop.

yeah obv cant get on at tracks- few places in london u can get on, if u stay under radar and act like standard high roller in City/Canary Wharf u can get on- got to give action to get action tho

anything at cray this afternoon?

give me 5k and i'll get it on for u

20 pages in I'm still trying to work out what arbboy's desired outcome is....

Is it:
a) To close Blatch down
b) To muscle in and put a new account into action for a fee
c) Some philanthropic and alturistic assistance for Blatch
d) To expose Blatch of some fraudulent activity
e) something else?

Please tell me it is e), because I don't see you succeeding with any of the others...

b

It seems he has now moved on to accusing Blatch of using the invested funds to kind of freeroll himself for some personal trades.

No idea but it aint normally hard to spot what the "office" are backing at Crayford. First show normally goes and its unders on betfair instantly.

Arbboy = Fergus8; he's absolutely seething at the oneupmanship!!!

obv t5 in the 237

Lol if thats meant how I read it............ awesome. :D

Just spoken to Blatch on the phone.

Anyone who requested a cashout for the world cup and hasn't had it yet, should have been made aware of the date they will receive it. If not ding him a pm and I'm sure Noel/Neil/Niall will give you a date.

I will also verify activity as Blatch will be sending me some screenshots of the account activity tonight.

How come we always lose when I follow your bets,your useless.

Small sample size obv or might be I fking useless at sports betting. It is one of the two.

Though arbing is a total different game to having a punt.

Why are blonde allowing this guy to troll? Seriously. It's ridic. Now he's banging on about Blatch posting screen shots.

It's definitely -Ev to let me follow you :)

whats the problem with posting some screen shots?

Yeah I agree here George. My dad is an investor and is busting my balls to see screenshots.

lakers -3.5?

i will take lakers -3.5 where can u find it?

my bad, thats the HT handicap

i certainly dont get the gamble on boston from 3/1 to 13/5.  Perkins out for the celitcs who is a big miss defensively.  I dont need to have a bet on this one but if i had no involvement 1.38 lakers on bf seems too big to me.  Biggest game of kobes career for his legacy.  The best bet of the night on betfair is kobe to score more than ray allen.  Its short but not short enough.  I just cant see a spot what allen outscored kobe here. The true price is probably close to 1.03 or 1.04.  Depends if u like backing them that short even if they are big value.

No way can Boston be as bad tactically as they were in game6, they have a great road record in regular season and playoffs and already won in LA earlier in series, they look overpriced to me if they can keep PG quiet, backed them handicap and outright

Cheers, might get on lakers outright

Kobe to outscore Ray Allen is betting on injury/fouled out, probably a 1.05 shot agree. Kobe scores 25+ even if they lose heavily, Allen can't score that

Our friend won't be bothering us again. A shame, as he had some decent points to make but making the same point 67 times and tonight across 6 threads simultaneously is too much

oh and I will now delete all the crap and get back to bed

Enjoy your evenings lol

norrrrrrr

how longs his ban for?

He won't be back. No amount of requests to stop made any difference. Enough was enough

As I say a shame because he was making some reasonable points I felt, but now we all know some people are concerned about the stake, and GreekStein has said what the latest situation is. Lets hope he and other investors can have their minds put at rest.

eh? I dont get it, whys all the stuff about NBA been deleted for no reason?

surely we're allowed to talk about that! Was nothing to do with Blatch or anything.

And mine and BH's day out when we met Blatch has been deleted, so ghey.

Yes. Give me a fucking chance lol. It requires a manual post by post split and reconstitution without the crap.

ahh, incred! Just wonderd :) gd work

slacker




ok i am off to hide before tighty hits me

NBA back up on this thread

DO NOT SWEAR AND USE SUCH AGGRESSIVE TONES.

This is a family forum and i for one will not stand for it. You cheeky little prewpot.

OK, so I am getting the first post in before this one becomes epic.............(You'll see why in a minute)

2nd.

hardly epic when you had alot of money invested realtive to your own means.  Hope the doubters enjoy the pain of the investors though something good might aswell come out of it

GG

Both of these posts are coming across real dickheadish boys.

Some of us are absolutely gutted here.

FFS

Yeah sry that post was out of order, some good ppl have lost quite a bit of money. As I said on msn Cos, this is fking awful.

For the record I was involved too, so my GG was not intended as a rub. I'm sick myself.

Also invested, wasn't a rub, just a bit of gallows humour, apologies if I offended anyone.

Actually gutted for Blatch too, this must have been hard to walk around with, for me he doesn't owe me a penny as I knew this was an experiment, but obviously some people with significantly larger sums than myself will not be as blasé about it.

ok guys I'm not involved in the stake but this is going to be a gutwrencher for everyone that is

There's not a lot of point me saying "no flaming" and all the rest because people are going to be upset.

For anyone who needs to speak to a mod, just PM whoever you see on. We'll do what we can to keep the hurt you are going to be feeling to a minimum should others/non investors decide to kick off on here.

All the best.

eh??? WTF has happenned...was arbboy correct?

I think Blatch will be posting in the next 24 hours

Investors have been informed already, as you would expect

Not all have..............

Okay not a level,ugh.

well i half know about this, but there is another blatch staking thread for poker where people have sent funds - are they cool?

Ok guys, I spoke to Blatch a little before he sent everyone the pm and he confessed to me.

The stake was being traded and Blatch fell asleep before money could be laid off, resulting in a loss of a vast majority of the bank.

Blatch has obviously made a big fuck up and I'm having a huge trouble swallowing it...and Blatch was my staker and has been a friend for a few years now.

I've lost £2k in this and I persuaded my dad to invest £5k in it too which may be the second hardest conversation I've ever had but I'm willing to try and be a mediator between Blatch and stakers, just try not to hound me too much as this is hard for me to deal with.

Blatch also wants to apologise to people who invested but didn't get a pm or found out through this thread. He did not realise there is a 15pm/hour rule.

His intention is to pay everyone but £70k doesn't appear from thin air so the sooner a feasible and reasonable plan can be worked out the better.

Finally, investors can feel free to vent and people can have their say, but if you're ever likely to bump into me anywhere round the country, please don't use this thread as an opportunity to joke or pisstake.

i've PMed blatch to say that he needs to prove what he is saying is true. if it's true then it ain't the end of the world but he needs to prove he hasn't stolen it.

oh no!

im gutted for everyone, and i know people are going to be angry but im gutted for blatch too.

i havent seen what blatch has said so dont know the story. I just hope its genuine and that this can be righted! Are there any funds left?, can you not just start again with the trading?

This is going to be a horrible thread, I feel sick and Im not involved in this (although i am in another)

I guess when blatch posts people will deal with it in their own way, shouting fully expected!

This.

An honest mistake is an honest mistake.

Thanks for this post greekstein, its nice to be in contact with other people who have invested and know blatch.  I joined just to invest after another memeber told me about it so I don't know anyone else involved but would like to be kept up to date with whatever comes next.  The guy who told me about it got his money out early and therefore he's not involved anymore.

I invested 3k after a good month at poker and since then i've not had a winning month lol and spent the rest of my roll so this has come as a big shock and im totally gutted, i guess what gets me more are the lies as I also asked to withdraw early (before before blatch went to florida) but i was told he couldn't do it as he would be out the country and then that he wasn't accepting any other early withdrawals untill the end of the season.  I'm just totally gutted and actually feel sick but i guess that'll be an expensive lesson learnt.

Pretty much agree with this part.  Although I wasn't in for anywhere near as much as most people, just beer money for most, I'm still gutted about it all.

Cheers for posting Greekstein

Oh my

Had the loss already happened then Greekstein? If not when did it occur?

Also why is Blatch not posting himself?

I think all investors are entitled and indeed should demand to see full screenshots of the accounts full history including all trades,profit and loss,deposits and withdrawals obviously including proof of this one trade where the "vast majority" of the bank was lost after he fell asleep.

Investors can't be expected to just take his or anyone elses word for it that this is what happened when 70/80k is involved and then just sit back waiting to be paid.

Full disclosure is needed.

Neil Blatchly
Neil Blatchly Is having lunch in a posh restaurant over looking Miami south beach :)
April 18 at 5:28pm via Facebook for iPhone · Comment · Like

 Neil Blatchly  has just been to an amazing all you can eat Steak buffet over looking Miami marina :-)
April 19 at 1:35am · Comment · Like

 Neil Blatchly  Has been on a cruise around the Miami islands. I now want to buy the property next to P. Diddy but I think the $74 million price tag is a little too much :)
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Ridic.

Gutted for people i know who have lost big big amounts here like Greekstein and Pab.

when was this liverpool/stoke match?
pab and someone else had 10K in this?
what happened to the vegas staking money?

the stupid thing about this is that if he had told the truth at the time (assuming it is the truth) nobody would have cared that much.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/eng_prem/8454633.stm

This one?

im guessing the liverpool game was Wednesday August 19 because liverpool scored in the 4th minute and if he was late then there would have been massive price movement hence the 85% of bank loss, the other liverpool stoke game didnt have a goal untill the 58th minute so wouldnt have had such a big loss.

Now seeing this considering i didnt invest untill the new year i am more pissed off because my money wasn't involved in this big losing trade yet I am still getting nothing, i think pab also invested around when i did, alot of the late investors might be feeling worse now like i am.....selfish i know to the others but its just sick.

 ;gobsmacked;
Is it the lot ?
Does it inc the peeps who requested pre WC cash outs ? Was he still trading that money or was it sent back ?

August 19th game makes no sense, the big investment (hence most of the roll) came along a lot later.

Stoke vs Liverpool lunchtime k/o was 16th January, if you want to see the results for that trade etc it's page 55/56 on the main thread.

FWIW I was an annonymous investor. Am gutted for all investors.

i requested pre WC cashout, the money has all gone

makes no sense that he lost alot of the later investments (including mine) i agree, the early goal and the missed alarm would fit with this match not the other liverpool stoke game. He did say it was liverpool stoke where he lost all but 15% of the bank.  Totally confused and gutted, can't really think straight

For this game though the first goal was the 58th minute according to what i just looked up on google so he would have had time to trade out if he woke up 15 minutes before kick off?

Guys I'm still waiting on answers but will make sure I'm around most of the night, barring maybe the england match and a little either side. I've cancelled my plans for tomorrow now so will be in most of the weekend to help everyone get answers to any questions they have.

I know mods don't like private convos being posted but I want this to be as transparent as possible. Neil has ok'd this.

I say:
right neil
i need u to be 100% straight with me on this
is that really how u lost the money
or did u use for own trades
or skimmed off the top
to tie urself over
Blatch says:
yeh, most on when i didnt wake up in time and from there I went chasing
I say:
cos im gonna need to see the account
Blatch says:
thats fine, i would log in and show you but betfair only show last 3 months, so ive phoned betfair and asked for full account history to be sent
I say:
ok can i post the last 3 statements on the thread
for everyones pieace of mind
?
Blatch says:
sorry was on ohone to bvetfair
I say:
np
Blatch says:
the last 3 months just show about a 300 loss of me trying a spin up
this whole account history shoudl be with me inside the hour so will email that on as soon as it arrives

a.sparrow, pokerfan, T_Mar, George2Loose, ForthThistle, Josedinho, LOJ, Murph1984, Horneris, Chompy, Ismene, Sighmuns, Nico29, Blatch, bookiebasher, BigArmo, Bongo, Ironside, Linux, Simon Galloway, scotty2hatty, titaniumbean, Dacey, DaveShoelace, boldie (+ 2 Hidden) and 2 Guests are viewing this topic.

I have no idea what is going on here... Has everything gone? I've got no PM and had alot of money involved

I said an honest mistake is an honest mistake, but I don't like the sound of how long ago the mistake could have been made. The length of time makes it feel less and less honest.

Did arbboy have some kind of knowledge of the tits up ness hence why he started his tirades?

In short, yes.

You didn't receive a pm because Blatch was only able to send 15 per hour.

I think Tighty was trying to send it to everyone else in the stake on his behalf.

I really wanted to PM everyone before it came public but due to the 15 pm per hour this wasnt possible.

I wont post my PM here but I will try to answer questions and not hide from this anymore.

The problems started with the Stoke vs Liverpool game.  I placed the first part of the trade Friday night and didnt wake up in time, whether I slept through my alarm or didnt set it right I dont know but when I woke up Liverpool were 1 up.  I had to decide whether to let it ride or trade out and save around 15-20% of the fund.  I then got a bit back and and tried to keep going and then it happened again in a Man City vs Stoke game.  I was away at a poker comp with 2 friends and placed a trade before and was late for the start of the comp and started playing the comp and totally forgot about the game kicking off later.

I have emailed betfair to get a full account hisory for anyone to see.

I also have a full list of stakers - please everyone send me their email addresses and providing you are on the account I will send you a pm with the full account history as soon as I receive it.

Will arbboy have his posting privileges reinstated ?

so have u been trying to re-coup losses since the game in question?  I've part invested with my brother and have been keeping a keen eye on this.

Does this mean all the trades since then showing a loss was a way of getting the balance down to show a loss in the end?

Cant seem to believe this.

Blatch/Cos

There is a poker stake too. I have a feeling i know the answer and ill take it on the chin, but has that gone too?


with regard to what people are saying re timing, i think you have to put yourself in blatchs' shoes. I know alot of time has passed since january, but if that was me i would try and right it before telling people. I guess the problem is you need to chase to do that.

i feel sick, i feel sick for all those involved, but if this is a genuine error I cant bring myself to witch hunt. Obv if he cant prove it then there will be issues.

this is just fucked up!

easier just to put up a screenshot isn't it?

A mistake is one thing, trying to hide it with lies feels like something else all together.

What I tried to do, was trade on paper what I would have done with the intention of keeping the profit and loss going.

Ever since the Liverpool vs Stoke game and the Man City vs Stoke game I tried trading all sports and trying anyway to get the money back and basically chased the account down to empty.

no he was banned for trolling he had valid pts but went about it wrong

K.

PM says 'I nearly did something stupid', well, here's to hoping.

What an utter utter c***.  Let's hope he rots.

Takes a lot of class to do this for everyone considering what you have had to go through yourself, WP Greeky

Is blatch guarenteeing all stakers their money back no matter how long it takes?

Sorry Blatch but I think this is a perfectly good question.

The list is in a weird spreadhsheet with amounts of investments included. Obviously amounts are personal and some people requested to remain anonymous too.

This sheet has been sent to myself and to Tighty.

I don't see why it's easier or harder really.

Can he not just show a screenshot of the liverpool market with -80k or w/e

to show he did really fall asleep and not just grim it all??

Betfair only shows you amounts going back 3 months.  I have requested a full account history to be sent via email for everyone to see.

I will get everyone there money back.  It may take some time but everyone eventually will get every penny invested back.

I am in shock. I obviously defended Blatch to the hilt when arrboy kicked off. Neil has done a very silly thing obv. Don't really know what to say.....

Np problem I'm gonna try my best. It would be a lie to say I'm doing it 100% out of the goodness of my heart but I partly want to help everyone, partly want to help Blatch as I don't believe he's a malicious guy, just someone given too much responsibility and made a huge fuck up and reacted to it badly and mostly of all, I want my money back some day.

I think the problem is something like this easily spirals out of control, one lie leads to another and it becomes harder to tell the truth and the mess gets bigger.

If what we've been told is the truth then Blatch has made a mistake, tried to rectify it (in the wrong way), made things worse and is now trying to rectify them the right way.

If that is the case then at no point has he acted maliciously towards anyone (i.e. deliberately misusing their funds) and I wish him well in his attempts to put things right.

Had an email off a friend who I recommended to put some savings into this at the start of the season asking how everything was going, told him that he def made more than he would of leaving it in the bank and he was looking forward to having the money for a hol etc at end of the year so now I feel like abit of a nob :(

Playing 1k events and going on holiday after this happened seems pretty ridic, but I'm guessing your start of online poker  (rush poker challenge) was to try and win some money back for investors.

also out of curiosity if someone wanted to take legal action would they be able to?

Everything I did was to try to get the money back. 

As for the legal action side im not sure.  Sadly I dont have any assets, apart from a small car, to sell that will help.

I have already started applying for jobs and every spare penny I get will towards giving people there money back.

I doubt legal action would help anyway - if you won you'd be in the same situation as now but with lawyers getting paid before you.

Really hope it doesnt go that far mate. ul and gl for the future.

I have never studied law but im guessing no as there was no contract and no guarentees.  At the end of the day it was an experiment and a gamble.  I might be wrong but i think if Blatch admited what he had done as soon as it happened then things would be alot better, for a start alot of late investers wouldn't have invested and the loss wouldn't be so great.  Secondly its the lie and the length of it that is probably pissing most people off and makes it a lot harder to stomach.

I'm also fairly annnoyed that he made the mistake twice, one thing before forgetful but with so much money at stake to forget or oversleep another trade after the first one is just (for want of a  better word) ridiculous.

vegas money?

was the betfair account in your name?

Why did you still accept peoples money last week.?????

I know everyone can feck up but if this was 3 months ago
and you still pm'd me asking if I was wanting to be involved
last week.

This is the bit ethically doesn't compute!!!!

I am quite angry, especially as it seems that me and brother seemed to have invested after this liverpool game where it had all gone wrong, and that taking the money was only making a situation worse, but I suppose would give you some funds to try and build the bank up.

Anyway a suggestion straight away from me that I think an account should be opened by a Blonde Mod, and if you a rightly going to repay the money (however much time it takes) you should credit this account to ring fence it, and let the blonde team transfer it back to investors from this account (should they be happy to do this)..

Good luck with getting back on track, I think you may need it.

Blatch, would you mind putting up the last 3 months of transactions anyway please?

I thought this was a light hearted joke with what's been going on lately and it appears it is not.

We all knew the risks before we got into this and knew we could lose part or all of the investment. Covering it up and chasing the loses without telling us is kinda awful as I think the investors would have just accepted a 20% loss on the first game and just ground it back throughout the season and move onto the world cup / next season for a profit / restart.

If you do intend to pay the original investments back then good on you. My £500 might seem small in comparison to sum but I don't want you guilt stricken over it and I will be patient and wait for anything to develop on it as I'll just write it off.

On a personal note to Neil what if we all wanted out pre-world cup when you told certain people their stake was X% > than their original investment ? Telling me I had £x,xxx,xx to let role on or be in my bank was very wrong. I still appreciate the seasons work and feel sorry for the higher investors.

Seems to have started 10 months ago, its uneithical to ask you to join definately but his motive was obv to get funds to spin up and try to rescue it with a miracle.

Vegas money has gone and account was in my name.

Im currently trying to send messages to all to let them now.

I'm sorry you're in such a deep hole Blatch, but what I suspect really hurts everyone is that people defended you to the hilt against a random who was trolling and yet you were never straight with people until now.

The money becomes a minor issue (if it can be) for me since I think everyone who invested should've come in knowing there would be some risk that everything could go wrong, but the fact that you never told anyone and maintained an illusion that things were fine is the most insulting thing. Everyone here has been played for fools because you were not honest in a situation that demanded it the most especially given people would find out eventually, you should've stood up and been counted. Taking holidays and playing large buy-in events when you're already going to be owing people huge sums also seems utterly ridiculous.

Anyway, I'm not going to castigate you anymore, I suspect you've already been punished enough. I hope you can get back on your feet and repay back the money and rebuild the trust that people have shown in you, but it's going to be very hard and may take a long time.

All the best,

Chris

I have the spreadhseet and see that money was obviously accepted after the date of the loss (I initially thought about this point too as this was when my dad invested).

Before I ask everyone what they think this means in terms of people getting paid back first etc I want to verify everything matches up with the account.

I'm getting the log in details for it in a second. I will pass this on to Kinboshi and Tightend too.

Yeah but that would of been a total lie, and he would of stopped at 80k, so instead of the investor getting the 80k which blatch had gambled/span up they would of just been told he broke even.

Take a bank loan out, 28/9 split LDO.

actually ignore me i dont know, i thoguht the august game as there was a 4th minute goal which obv gives him less time to trade out, 58th minute in the 2nd game between the two teams.  thought i read somewhere he woke up 15 mins before kick off so if true he would have been able to trade out in time for the goal in the 2nd meeting, but obv he woke up later or something.  i'm sure we will all know soon enough anyway.

Good post.

I now have the password to the account and username.


Just trying to up in the office. Will be home later to post further.

Neil I think what Chris says makes a lot of sense. I feel like a prize tool for defending you on like 12 pages of the thread.

I also wish you'd confided in me mate. I'm probably looking at cancelling a trip to Vegas due to this.

Wow, I hope everyone gets their cash back, it's not as if a trade simply went wrong. And obviously people need reassurances that it hasn't just been lost on a random spin up or worse - so many ways the money could have went. I've heard of people dumping money from one of their accounts to another - putting up money to be matched on a low volume market and then signing in with another account and matching it. Not saying that has happened here though.

We need an auditor (that understands Betfair, arbing and betting in general) to comb over the account.  Someone like Chompy (sorry mate!) who doesn't have a shilling in (I don't think) that can probe for evidence of what happened.

Some people don't seem to understand that if the fund was being "borrowed" to trade IR, it could have been successful many times over.  Then with a Liverpool lay going tits up with 15 minutes to go, it suddenly becomes a "sleep in".

I don't know which version is true, but a decent audit gets rid of the speculation.  There shouldn't be any money in play IR on the account.  If this truly was a tragic accident, it obv hasn't been dealt with very well, but at least we will know what we are dealing with.  

Some questions:

1. How many times in the season was money in play IR?

2. Was the Florida holiday an attempt to recoup the losses?

3. What happens to the WSOP stake?

4. Detailed breakdown of the cashouts?

5. What evidence is there to contravene the contention that the sudden downswing was a 'paper trade' downswing designed to reduce the account balance?

betfair have a money laundering department, i know nothing about this sort of stuff, googling seems to say they catch people who deposit with stolen credit cards. can you do the equivalent of 'chip dumping to your mate by playing HU' on betfair?

Hi Simon,

I realise this is only an answer to the first of your points but I've pm'd blonde member 'Sighmuns' who is also a member of BF staff to see if he can take a look into this for us as I'm certainly not qualified to do so.

If someone like Chompy is willing to do this I'm happy to pass over log in details.

Cos

I disagree, when I enquired about investing for the world cup I was led to beleive it would be part of the fund to be traded with. However this is clearly not the case and obv the extra money reinvested was done so under false pretences to be used to spin up(deliberately misusing the money)
in the hopes of spinning it up to recover the originally invested money.

This. Saved me a long post.

Asking for funds to try and spin it up is called grimming btw

Cos,
It would be a laboured task, but even without Betfair assistance it can still be done by cross-checking times of trades and times of kick-offs?

If there were loads of similar trades that were successful and then palmed off to a different account, withdrawn (or otherwise chip-dumped) then clearly the fund was being used to buy money for personal use.

If that was the only live position during the season (OK 2 with the man C game) IR then the fund was more likely to have been used properly and the sleep-in is more credible.

Hi Simon,

I'm happy to do this with you if you want?

Great post,especially question 5.

First it's assuming that the money was "lost" unintentionally,ie he really did sleep in and so never traded out.

If that is the case,it's very hard to believe that he was genuinely "paper trading".It seems a lot more conceivable that having found himself in a real hole he resorted to faking losses out of deperation in order to slowly get the account balance as far as investors were aware down to what it was in reality,nothing,resulting in him not oweing anything and everyone walking away saying they knew the risks involved.

That is not a nice possibility but it's better than the other,that he straight out stole the money.

I'd like to believe thngs were not this sinister but the fact he swanned off on holiday,several times bragging about the extravagance of that holiday after he supposedly lost 70/80k of other peoples money after sleeping in makes it difficult.

so you used and lost peoples wsop money in you trying to re coup the loss?

Posting up the last 3 months transactions would be a start in showing us that point 5, (ie the recent losses were real) is not something we have to worry about....

^^^^^^^^^^

THIS IS WHAT I WANT TO KNOW!!!!  Why take money off people after the first fuck up!

Looks like the biggest grime in history to me.

was wsop main event or $1500

Those losses were not real.

He said he was "paper trading",basically means he was recording what he would have done if the account had the funds it should have.

Of course like I say,it looks like he was just trying to bit by bit make the fictional balance(ie what it would be without the sleep in) equal to the real balance which was zero.

staked blatch for wsop and 5/10 game soft or not. Hopefully he's still going to Vegas? If not can you  sort out a staged repayment plan (waiting for $260 will hardly kill me) by pm plz Neil?


...tbh I always write off one off stakes in my records :)

Gotcha, cheers Murph.

Shocking really.

I can confirm Neil is not going Vegas.

Think you can safely say all stakes are gone and by what neil says he is busto...

Neils a nice guy and I wish him well but seems to me he may need professional help with gambling as this whole affair smacks of a classic underlying problem...

also arbboy should be allowed back and give us some tipssss so people can make monies back.

Guys,

I just want to say I had abso nothing to do with this. I've had a couple of people ask if I was involved and you probably don't give a shit because you've all lost money but I had absolutely no idea what was going on. I would have advised him to post up the mistake rather than go chasing.

I spoke to Neil a couple of days ago and he assured me he still had the money- money I think a lot of us were relying on for different things.

This is why I was defending him so much on this very thread from arrboy. I'm not going to leave him out to dry. Despite what he's done he is still a friend but obviously it's going to take a while to repair the damage he has done.

This

Expect the worst people. Although not an investor in this scheme Blatch owes me $2k from a bet we made that I've been chasing since the beginning of May. He has been feeding me all kinds of shit, some of it plausible, some of it just plain ridic. Had been kinda expecting this outcome but hoping not. I have managed to get $600 from Blatch but will also be expecting my $2k at some point. He admitted to me last Friday that he was busto but had cashed in a 14 day notice policy that would have him back in black so didn't want to stir up anymore shit. At no point was the staking money mentioned, I presumed this ring fenced.

afraid so

Damage yeah!  taking cash of people after initial fuck up is just plain wrong. I havent invested as much as other people on here and I feel sorry for the ones that have invest £5k Plus.

Good luck lad.  Your going to need it.....

I wouldn't defend him too much, he told me you were paying for his Vegas trip and knew about his temporary bustoness.

fuck off you silly *****

wtf, why is everyone being so nice to him.

All i keep reading is "Neils a great guy", "Good Luck for the future".

Hes done in £80,000 of peoples money, money that some of the people couldnt afford to lose without breathing a word for 6 months. (i know it was a gamble but they couldve got out if they lost a certain % of their investment).

Sleeping in is no excuse, in this situation i wouldve set like 6 alarms minimum.

What an absolute bellend.

After not getting up on time and losing 8k-10kish (rough guess) how can you go away on a poker school and just forget that you have money tied up?  Surely you'd be damn concious every time you have money tied up after making one mistake?

And, the Vegas staking was set up just to get money back from this?  Was it never the intention to go?

This isnt one big wind up is it?  There's so many things that I just can't get my head around.

George never knew any of this , however George had paid for my flight and accomodation.

I'd recommend that people who have lost money request that Blatch put his pen where his mouth is and sign legally binding IOU notes.

No reason to trust him after all this, if he truly intends to pay you back then he should have no problem doing such a thing.

Another $13k from the wsop.... oh no... thats inexcusable.... and is fraudulant.. obtaining money by deception is a criminal offence..

I knew he was struggling for cash but he assured me had money secured in Vegas.

I had no idea what was happening with this account

sorry tank.  aint worth the paper its written on. Not even worth the cash for small claims court!  As for paying people back.  whats he going to do get a mortage?  HE aint even got a job!

I would like an answer to a simple question.  Why take cash after the initial loss? 

Yes but thats not what you told me, don't fuckin start windin me up by responding to minor details like that when you owe me $2k and others more.

Its weird that it not only happened once but twice, i dont no about you but if i had 50-80k tied up in a trade i wouldnt just be setting 1 alarm, id be having like 4 or 5 alarms. Then just 'forgetting' about it the 2nd time seems very irresponsible.

I dont think you could ever forget about something as big or as much as that but i duno  :dontask:


I hope you all get paid back ASAP.



So he could go to Florida ldo.

Yeah I believe you, he told me had $30k waiting over there from people who owed him

Some follow up questions:

In 1. above, ok there are IR trades when you are scrambling to get out of it, but are there any IR trades before Liv v Stoke?  If there were, where did the proceeds go?

[For Cos, yes I will help with the time checking sure, PM me after the Eng game]

The reason for drilling deeper here is the bit that I think most don't seem to understand.  We need to establish if there were a series of trades where you were "buying money" for yourself by putting the fund in play IR and taking the proceeeds, and the Liv v Stoke game was the LAST game, where you tried your luck one too many times OR it was the first time money was IR and it was your mistake.

There's a world of difference between the two.

in 5. above, what I am asking is that it is possible the losses could have been accounted for by posting a series of losses (80k's worth at a guess) which leaves your account empty, but clean.  If in fact those trades didn't exist, then either this is exactly what you were trying to do, or you were continuing to rack up your own personal exposure from any successful trades with a view to somehow getting the money back before settlement time.  Reporting ficticious trades is usually not a good thing.

Cos I was stupid and saw it as the only way to get other money back.

I wasnt thinking straight and obviously got it all horribly wrong but I didnt see that back then.

Hi Guys - ARBBOY here on gf's account

I am totally in shock regarding this and still not 100% certain its not a wind up to suck me back in.  I am going to be classy about this even though i could easily expect a zillion sorry's from everyone on here.  Quite surprising given how i was told how unclassy i was pretty much everything i said has happened and more in a 'Barings Bank' disaster.  When people say i am a random i would have thought u would realise that i play all major uk poker events and several people have confirmed that i have been a pro punter/bookmaker for 10 years.  Its not like most of you havent come across me.  I dont think anyone who knows me well didnt totally agree with everything i was saying.  I can smell a rat a mile away in this game and the longer Blatch stalled on his answers the most obvious something like this was brewing.  I had no idea it was of this level.  I feel so sorry for everyone involved genuinely as i said before in previous posts things like this are not good for my business 'gambling'.  Its my livelihood as it is many peoples on here.  Things like this happening are a lose/lose for everyone.  Even someone like me who could easily say 'i told you so etc etc'.  

I would expect my forum rights to be restored as the only reason i kept banging on about this was for the fear something like this could happen.  I know i was repeating myself but the bottom line is i have been proved right although i dont get any satisfaction at all from it.  I will come into contact with most of you at DTD/gukpts etc etc on a monthly basis and i would appreciate it if no one ever brings this up and needles me either in a positive or negative way.  Its an awful situation for everyone if its 100% genuine and not a wind up.  I think the thread has gone on long enough now today for it to be serious.  I am a chartered accountant by trade with experience in auditing during my training.  The guy that suggested an audit of the account would probably find me to be the best qualified person to do this although i wouldnt really want to tbh.  I doubt anyone would want me to giving the previous threads but anyone who knows me knows i am 100% professional and if you guys did want me to do it i probably would.  Its up to you.


I dont really know what else to say.  Blatch it was never ever personal mate whatever you choose to think regarding the investment fund.  The wind up at dtd was different and maybe wrong.  However all the conerns i made on here were genuine regarding people investing real cash and their rights.  All the best in the future and i hope you can repay everyone although relaistically i am not sure how possible that will be in the short/medium term if ever.

See you around guys at dtd and elsewhere
MArk Wilson (arbboy)

I cant take this thread serious. Is it to wind up that kid arddy or summat?

Im pretty certaint there was nothing IR in the account before that game.  If there was then any money made from this the money stayed in the account.  After this game all profit stayed in the account and I simply tried to get the account back to what it was.

I never took money out of the account apart from once.  This was for an investor who no longer wanted to stay in, due to personal circumstances.  Im not 100% certaint but I think this was before the Liverpool vs Stoke game.

Im still not 100% certain what your asking in 5 but yes some of the losses werent infactual truth.  It was to reduce the account balance and therefore I had to win less back.  I know this whole thing is one serious mess up and I really want to turn this round and get people their money back.

Once things started going wrong it was a horrible slippery slope.  In my mind, depsite what the betfair balance was, I knew I owed out around 70k to people and basically whatever was in my bank account, my own betfair account and the londe betfair account would all be combined together to pay this amount out.

Think you broke the forum rules there fella

Blatch you have always implied or laid claims to a somewhat "balla" status but now claim you have no assets other than a little car and clearly no funds at hand to make any size of a downpayment to the investors?

So all these claims were fiction?

I understand these are slightly personal questions but I would guess most people invested in this scheme on the back of that image you had and in you yourself rather than actually knowing and fully understanding what you were going to be doing/how you would be doing it etc.

Forgive me for being skeptical here but you came out of the woodwork just before Blatch owns up to being busto and now hinting at viewing the account.  I do not know your or blatch in person and i am not trying to question your integrity but considering whats happened i can't help it.

[ X ] Epic fail.

You weren't classy then, and you aren't now.  The fact that you are up to speed on betfair isn't how class is measured.

Walter Mitty syndrome imo

I dont want to say anymore on the matter but i will answer that point.  The only reason i ever got involved in the first place was to ask why blatch had missed the biggest gamble of the world cup.  Timing of this is totally coincidental and i can 150% gtd that i had no involvement in the fund or have ever even spoken to blatch apart from the 'needle' in the cash game a year or so ago at dtd which was nothing to do with this because this fund hadnt even started.

I'm not sure if its ethical or not to post pm's but Blatch also said to me here was completeing on a house recently so im guessing that was a lie too.  

'If you need it early still when I do withdraw once I know the final total ill see if I have enough spare cash floating around to send straight away out of my account and ill keep your share when it clears.

Sadly cant do that at mo as hoping to complete on a house very soon.'

Honestly i feel for the guy, no one wants to be in his shoes, but i also understand its all his own doing.  Its the gamblers mentality to chase.  But saying that I still think everything needs to be out in the open here hence posting this pm. mods please delete if its wrong.

Those who have sent me their email addresses have now been sent the account history I received from Neil.

Simon G - I'll pm you later with my mobile number or msn.

Ok any more questions from anyone, feel free to ring/msn me or pm.

I can leave the office at 4.15 on a friday. Marvellous.

Agree

This is the bit that for me that is damning.  That's fairly cold and calculated deception, rather than "oh fuck what time is it, shit, now what" heat of the moment decisions.

So onto the payback.  What is the plan?

Suggesting:

1. We have a table of who is owed what (can use "Anon1, Anon2" where needed but someone needs to know who they are)
2. There is an agreed order of payback - e.g. the WSOP stake first, then late investors, then original investors.  (I'm not saying that has to be the order, I mean it can't just be "Fred gets paid first as he shouted loudest/is my friend.."  ~ all those in the same group should get whatever is available at the time pro rated to them.

Simon

Payback is a really difficult issue for me. I am inclined to say that the smallest stakers should get there's first just to reduce the list! How many stakers are less than 200?

I know the guys in deep won't appreciate this sentiment, but blatch must be able to get a semi good paying job. Then if you get rid of the small stakers, then the guys who are in deep can come to some sort of arrangement. Just a thought.

An administration style payback for everyone would be the fair way, but I'm sure everyone would agree that getting back 20 quid a month is pointless

LOL at people thinking they are gonna get paid back.

exactly, close friends may get some, everyone else he ain't gonna give a shit about.

England -£70,000

Draw     -£70,000

Algeria  - £70,000


Liquid

lol

Not sure its a time for jokes yet guys

Biggest joke i've seen on here Guy is the people that are saying the feel for Neil and they hope he gets it sorted. Can't believe the love he is still receiving on here. Makes me sick. Friends of mine, people i like & Greekstein have money involved in this. It isn't really funny no, but then it isn't really appropriate to be showing love to Blatch.

I came to my senses that it isn't a wind up thread, I am not involved although have wished many times in the past I was. But...... I do not think that that would be the best repay option. I think that possibly percentage of investment per payout would be better. My reasons being.... whether one has invested £10 or £10k it has the same monetary value ( wrong words), financial loss to that person as one, like we all say, should only gamble what they can afford to lose.

Just reading this threat is gut wrenching, must be unbearable for those who invested. I'm just glad my bank changed it's transfers policy and I just said, next time, instead of going in to get the transfer done.

from reading this thread it just seems that Neil is nothing but a grimming *****, and a very calculated one at that

Reading between the lines grimmer was busto when set  up this staking thread and was using it as personal bankroll.

Text book living beyond means and an epic grim.

going on holiday, throwing wads of twenties at the roulette wheel and setting up a 2nd grim all whilst in a 70k hole, smacks of arrogance beyond belief.

someone should call the police as the 2nd grim is fraud .

I was going to try and act as mediator but after a long think on the long bus journey home from work I just can't do it. Whole thing has made me feel a sick that someone who was my friend as well as my staker could do this to me. Neil was supposed to be my friend.

Fuck knows how it's going to affect my relationship at home when I tell my dad as well as ruining my dream of going to Vegas in a few months that I'd worked hard on and off the table for a while to pay for.

I'm not going on a hate Neil campaign, a part of me wants to but I still feel a bit sorry for him and I will still be posing questions and trying to get answers from the thread.

There's not much to say in Blatch's favour.

It looks like he hasn't come clean here, he's just run out time and imagination. If it were possible to tell another lie or defraud another person to buy a little more breathing space then that's what he would be doing right now.

Will be surprised if arbboy is unbanned. Mods gave him plenty chance to have s say, and when tighty decided enough was enough, gave him about a dozen warnings and arbboy ignored them all. Felt like the banning was a last resort, and definately not  clique thing to protect Blatch.
Blatch being guilty of all sorts of things and arbboy being a massive dousche are seperate issues.  Creating duplicate account not going to help him, just a further example that he has no inntention of ever respecting the rules around here.

where he get the money from to stake you?

Grimmer has made fools of u all right up until today he was willing to take even more money.

ur never see a penny. it would take years to even dent the debt.

grimmer will sink beneath the surface like the snake he is and revert to playing on line and sports betting with peanuts, all the while fooling himself and prob others at some point he knows what he is doing.

fantasy life
fantasy life
paid for by u GG WP

greekstein, do you know anything about the house blatch said he was hopefully completing on that i posted up on the previous page?  I'm guessing it was a lie but its a weird thing to make up, then again the whole situation is fked up.

prob wendy house from toys r us ...50p secures...was last 50p in stake money

why are you asking me this?

I think we all need to be realistic and realise he has told a lot of different lies to different people in the last few months

How can anyone feel sorry for a grimmer is a beyond me....they have no respect for anyone and themselves!

Sick, that's how I feel.

Was concerned something was wrong, but never expected the entire staking roll to have gone.

Having spoken to Neil over the past few weeks, I actually felt reassured that my worst fears wouldn't be realised.  However, they were merely more lies, as I now know.

I've lost more than beer money from this.  I've lost my roll for Vegas, so the trip I've been looking forward to for a year will be no more.  It's money I could afford to lose, but I'd have rather have lost it myself whilst in Vegas.

Of course the investment wasn't guaranteed, but I expected that if half of the pot had gone, Neil would have been a man enough to give people a chance to cut their losses. 

I considered Blatch a mate, and that's why it hurts more.  He was telling me about his mate Kev losing some of his and George's money and how upset he was about it.  When he was telling me this, he'd already started grimming me (and everyone else of course).

If people seriously think they're going to get their money back, then I think you're deluded.  £70K+ is a lot of money for someone to earn on top of earning enough to live on.

I'd suggest Neil gets some help with his gambling problem, stops playing poker, stops sports trading, stops playing roulette, and has a long and hard think about what he's done to his mates and others who trusted him to at least not lie to them, and of course not abuse the staking money they invested in good faith.

No, about 6 months ago I was told by Neil that he was having to tie most of his cash and roll up in his new flat in Leicester, because as a trader he couldn't get a mortgage. This is why we never really questioned him when he was a little short on cash and would take a while to pay us back.

There are at least 5 members of his 'stable' who post on blonde that could probably confirm this.

 so all the monies been used to stake these 5 players ?

When was Blatch actually going to tell you all?

It seems all this has only came about and been outed because the shrewdest of the shrewd 'arbboy' came on and started asking questions...?

the fact people have their "vegas dream" ruined is fucked up.

yeah, id be fkin devastated.

I feel abs devvd after reading kinboshis post, it honestly wouldn't surprise me if the whole sleeping in thing was bs and he'd just grimmed it.

what an utter twat

This.

The fact he was asking for money from more investors just last week is sick.

Thats exactly what happened Rich, and his girlfriend's account has been banned now too. Seems very unfair to me. The guy exposed a huuuuuuuuuuge grim and probably save others thousands in the coming months.

seems like it was actually us who were staking you

omg, didnt realise this.

What a disgrace, glad i didnt lend you that tenner for the bus home now. (check other thread)

has anyone looked at this spreadsheet, i can see why you can't screenshot it, it's huge. i know nothing about spreadsheets or betfair trading but I can't see how 50K was lost on this match. there are 2 7K trades that say they were cancelled, a 6K trade and a ton of smaller ones.

Is there anyone who knows about this stuff who can look at it?

I am gutted at this and I have no investment. So sorry for all of you that invested, was at one point sorry for Blatch too, in a strange way. This must be the most horrible thread so far on Blonde I have witnessed from the start.

This is not what Blonde was established for. It was originally a poker community that got on well enjoyed the game, met up, laughed a lot, told a few bad beats, asked for advice, staked a few folk into games, etc, maybe i am old fashioned, but Thanks all the same i will remain that way. When did it come to this I ask?

fell asleep? puleeeeese.

ffs was busto and was deluded enough he could get u all to pay for his lifestyle and still make u money.

wot a grimming mug.

this is the relevant part of the PM from blatch



Going back a few months everything was fine and going great.  Everything I had posted was spot on and then one day I had made a trade on a midday kick off between Liverpool and Stoke and I simply didnt wake up in time.  I must have not set my alarm right but basically I woke up with around 15 mins to go.  At this point I could only rescue about 15% of the bank.  I threw up at the time realising what had happened but for some stupid reason I decided that I could get the money back by the end of the season.  Basically since then I have been trading the games still but without actually putting the amounts on.  I was hoping that I would be able to raise the money by the end of the season and therefore the results would still be ok.

I dont know what I was thinking as I should have told everyone at the time but Im not sure how I could tell people that me sleeping in had cost in total around 50k.

Rich, do you know arrboy?

It was only a matter of time before he was exposed. I was ready to go public a week or so ago with my concerns about the money he owed me but he gave another line that I swallowed and gave him another week. I also knew it wouldn't be popular and the potential backlash from the stakers. A mod and a couple of other Blondes will confirm this.

lol no.

Am looking at the sheet too, could use someone that's good in Excel to help me a bit, trying to work out the profit and loss for each event rather than each trade.  Would welcome a knowing PM or something

Not your best thread Dewi.

I don't know Blatch and have nothing tied up in this, but please try not to give the guy too hard a time. The fact he's hardly been on here the past few days and been generally vague when he has would suggest he just has a major gambling problem imo. Now is likely to be the time the abuse flows, after England have blown out again and a few beers have been taken, but try to resist. If he is in up to his nuts, reading torrents of abuse isn't going to help.
Whether his story is completely genuine, which I'd somehow doubt, or not, there's not much he can do about it now.
Oh, and arbboy's original intention when bombing this thread certainly wasn't to expose the whole thing as one major grim. He's changed his story at least three times.

Why?

And regardless of Arbboy's intentions/story/comments. He opened up plenty of peoples eyes. So well done him.

Lie after lie this is bloody crazy!  I feel sorry for people who used to call him a friend.  Even though he has robbed me of some cash, I won’t have to see his face and be tempted to smash it in...

He has a serious problem.  Excellent idea to start off with and sold really well to everyone but where this is really fucked up is not at the start with the best of intention, but the constant lies throughout the thread.

I invested, yes hoping to make a fast buck in life (yep not really clever in hindsight), and to be fair if all through this I had lost half my stake, or even all of it through some dodgy decisions, or the market moving or Blatch getting it wrong, then fair enough.  I had built myself up for the possibility of this.  Also the amount I’ve put in wont bust my bank, but I’d rather have lost it myself playing a few comps out of my roll at DTD for a giggle than give it to some grimmer...

FACT.  You lost the roll before I invested!  Fucking ridiculous that you still had the balls to say more people could invest after you were sat there knowing you had “lost” people their cash (more than likely spunked it all on roulette on some dodgy site somewhere)  Maybe saying to potential new investors that it wasn’t open to any more would have been a start?!?

FACT.  You put bull shit results up on to keep people hooked!  Where did you honestly think you were going to get £80k to pay people back to cover your lies?

FACT.  You are a liar and a thief & the biggest grimmer ever...

If anyone reading this expects to get any of your cash back your living in cloud cookoo.

Blatch, do yourself a favour, own up to your bullshit losses and tell people the truth.  You owe everyone that.  Especially people you used to call friends...

this line gives me chills

Blatch, please can you come on here and explain what happened to your own personal roll during this time?

How much were you trading from?

where is it now?

are you prepared to show a 3rd party your own personal account trading over the same time period?

I am starting to feel worse about this.

Questions were being asked before arbboy posted on here.  His posting wasn't what unearthed the truth of the situation.

He won't be unbanned, as he broke forum rules.  Of course, in the scheme of things he's done far less harm than Blatch - but I'm sure Mark (arbboy) can live without blonde poker in his life.

I usually kept £5k in my account and the rest in my bank account.  My oerosnal bank roll has gone as well as I tried to spin this up to cover the loses in the other account.  Towards the end i also thought them as the same until I had enough to cover the blonde money.

I think its quite obvious I have a problem and will certainly be getting help for it.  Sadly I though I could get myself out of a hole and I couldnt, it created a snowball effect and made things so much worse.  I stupidly thought I could still get out of it and it got the point where I just couldnt keep up the lies and had to come clean.

Didnt exactly break the rules, yes he repeated claims time and time again, but he opened so many peoples eyes to what was going on. He is prob owed some thanks/apology from some people.

For my sins arbboy is one of my best friends but please dont stroke his ego even more......he is going to be unbearable as it is!!!!

u gotta be joking.when fergus grimmed for a few hundred there were crowds of angry villagers wanting to do him harm..blatch has grimmed for 90k!!! wtf. surprised if his still able to walk in a week

pretty sure ur a *****

LOL @ you had to come clean, you would have happily kept up the lies and taking more money if you could have got away with it. Arbboy may have irritated people but you knew you were up against it when he started persistently posting. I would prob go as far as saying he helped massively to expose what was going on.

 so who is gonna call the fraud squad in then ?

lolz at blatch..im sorry i gotta problem..gg 90k

Like I've already said, questions were already being asked by investors, and arbboy's timing wasn't coincidental imo.

However, he DID break forum rules, was warned a number of times, and was therefore banned.  Yes, he made some points that were very valid, but the same is also true of many other members who have been banned previously.

As an investor who's lost a fair amount (for me), what blatch has done will hurt me far more than anyone else could do by posting any amount of bollocks on here.  But that doesn't mean we suspend forum rules, or ignore them because of this.

Not getting this spreadsheet. The P&L column shows just over minus £43k as a total. Not getting the £50k on Stoke Vs Liverpool either as it shows plus £22k on the P&L column... - anyone who can enlighten me (and I'm guessing several others) on it?

He kept going on cause he wasnt getting a reply to his questions and was getting stick from others on blonde, then when he got fobbed off by Blatch he continued to ask the question to get an answer.

Look, i dont know Mark personally, I have shared a table with him a couple of times but he did help accelerate the situation and saved others plenty of £££ imo.

Just looking at the spreadsheet

on the 21st Jan you had 2 bets

5k on  cricket and 5k on golf

..........................

I felt sorry for Blatch when this thread started because I was under the assumption that his losses were ring fenced to the original staking account, but the fact that he was taking additional stakers last week plus the Vegas staking thread all makes this pure grimming and about the worst I've seen. I'm not expecting my money back, there are plenty of other people who had more invested financially and personally who I would prefer to see get it before I do, but I will probably never invest in another staking thread again after this, it was such a shocker.

I dont get this Blatch

You were trading off of 5k - and that sustained your life style? You had no other net worth?

The numbers are starting to get really out of whack for me and it is starting to make less and less sense

So you did 50k (in the accident) and had circa 15k left? Well thats still a role, put your 5k in, play the game, get it back to 50k and you are someting close to break even at the end of the season, and a 50k cock up has cost you 5k personally? That would seem like a result to me?

Is that not the way to look at it? I dont know anything about BF trading? How did this turn into you doing 90k of other peoples money

Also how did you fund your lifestyle on a 5k roll?